Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game

[pinpin]

Ross Jefferies needs to start doing some infields hitting on the hot teens and stuff. Would be amazing viewing

 

[Velasco]

Most people consider Julien to be one of the very best.

What I see them do is they send markus an infield from XYZ PUA and have him break it down. What he could have done at that exact moment (there's where he could have taken the conversation sexual, oh there was a great opportunity to DHV about that, oh he should have keep the tension going instead of killing it right away like that) What is the girl feeling in that moment and why. What she wants in that moment Its really good stuff

 

[Teevster]

It's just 2020 and you guys are still having the same dumb discussion as 2002.

I disagree here.

Yes newbies where rationalizing back then. This has always been the case. But what seems to be the new trend is that newbies tend to be "VERY SURE OF THEMSELVES". And of course, they never ask questions - just make bold claims about everything.

Most advanced guys will realize that very bold claims are dumb. If there is one rule of thumb in pick up it would be something like "it depends" - just like ToddV said (in Chrance's quote).

 

[YS.]

"Here's a LR of a time a girl that blew me off the open, then I reeled her into my sphere of influence, then I pulled her home"

Opened the girl. 8. Alternative vibe. Absolutely gorgeous. Ran up behind her. Semi-direct but social open.
Blew me off. Friends liked me. I gamed the friends.
Friends invited me to hang out. Girl fucking hated it, didn't talk to me.
We sat down at a coffee-shop. I talk about my life and as I was so fucking awesome the girl starting open up. I teased her and rewarded her a little.
Then the friends left us to our means. We vibed a bit. Got her #. Then vibed. More, the more I talked the more she got attracted.
Then we went to a restaurant.
Deep rapport.
Good connection.
She had to go. I was like cool.
She invited me to a party.
I went and fucked her. (Virgin girl, btw. Ah, Muslim too. Haha. Also completely closed off socially.)

Open up a little Velasco. Your game will be better off for it.

EDIT: I deleted some self-identifying parts of the LR. You can PM me for more details.

 

[Razorjack]

"Here's a LR of a time a girl that blew me off the open, then I reeled her into my sphere of influence, then I pulled her home"

@Velasco

Seriously dude, you have a way of deliberately misquoting something that wasn't said or you can't comprehend what you are reading. It's fuckin annoying.

I wrote this in my post to Fluxcapacitor:

First you may be misunderstanding something. It's not I approach, she puts palm in my face and I hijack her system. It's more like I approach, so she ends up in "my sphere of influence" that hijacks her system and she is completely receptive so she never puts her palm in my face to begin with.

 

[ljrozz69]

Hey @Razorjack,

I am very interested in what you wrote here, since I also see things in terms of frame:

What we are talking about is AMPLIFYING THE SHIT OUT of your mental frame (increase your "sphere of influence") AND taking it with you outside of your bedroom to the nightclub to include new girls that put their palms up in guys' faces.

Could you make a thread to develop and explain how one can do this? (and/or how you did it?) - I am sure I am not the only one interested in it, and it will lead everyone to a better understanding.

Klimax

 

[Teevster]

Something that it was either flatron or another user made me aware of, was that never the the history of PUA, has there been a LR or a video that captured a guy turning around a Red, and then proceeding to lay her that night.

The girls in their LRs always start with "then then I saw her looking/smiling at me across the room" "I opened her on her jacket/dress, and then she turned to me and smiled"

The girls in their LRs/Infields were always interested/receptive to the PUA. There was no "she completely blanked me on the open, so then I did XYZ and then I banged her"

If there's ever a guy fucking a girl that was a Red, it either happens on the day2, or day3, or several months from the night you originally met...through sheer persistence/game.

My game is centered on screening girls for sex that night. And with Reds, I dont see that happening (not talking about girls shit testing you either. I get shit tested all the time from greens and neutrals lol). Especially considering the fact there currently exists no evidence its ever been done

Nobody will ever claim that "turning red into greens" is common. It is hard and a lot of work.

And you are totally right saying that most lay reports starts with the girl being quite interested in the guy. This is because dealing with a girl who is already interested (or at least a "little bit interested") is the easiest, most efficient and oftentimes also the most fun way to run pick up.

However, there has been many reports posted... on say mASF of guys turning red into greens. It is not the most common but skilled guys can make it happen.

I have done it, I have seen others do it. I have seen Pablo do it. I even think I have seen Razorjack do it.

I know that Mystery was good at doing it too. So where some of the very skilled love-systems guys like Cajun.

But you are right, you will see this VERY rarely these days. The reason for that is because of the current trends ("new school") where guys simply move on from bad leads. So obviously, because it is out of fashion, you will not see it. It still does not mean it is not possible.


Edit: Most infield videos are in my book pretty lame. I personally do not watch them. I have not seen any mindblowing game on infield (I did so one from Hypnotica and a few from Mystery - old black and white in fields)

Best,
Teevster

 

[Velasco]

Good job @YS.

Blew me off. Friends liked me. I gamed the friends.
Friends invited me to hang out. Girl fucking hated it, didn't talk to me.

I have a LR just like this in this forum. Where my girl didnt like me and then because her friend liked me, she helped me pull my girl home. I also have another LR where because of the social proof I created in the venue, had one smoking hot chick approach me and made it easy for me. Had I gone up to her and approached her directly, would it have lead to the same result (level of ease? (Would have been difficult because I'd have to go to her bottle service table) Who knows)

And if the friends didnt like you either? Weren't there? You think you'd still pull her?

 

[Teevster]

Game 101 Guys:

• People chase broken rapport. People chase validation of worthy people, especially if that validation is stripped away.
• People are sucked into the reality of higher status people (and women are attracted to them) and status is communicated through actions. Honest signals and micro-expressions/calibrations.
• Women are attracted to status and strength, not fucking how nice your chin looks rofl. Survival and replication value. (Read some evolutionary biology for fucks sake.)
• There are many ways to convey status.
• Your status can be consciously conveyed (or being faked) through doing attractive actions. (Breaking rapport, body-language, basically most PUA attraction techniques.)
• Or your status could be unconsciously conveyed. (Being in state does this, as does having an awesome life, having core-confidence, having abundance, having confidence in an idea also does that -like @Velasco 's oh attraction either exists or doesn't probably makes him more relaxed and at ease and in his intent thus while incorrect, helps him convey HS unconsciously- etc.)
• Some of these high status behaviours could be internalized in some individuals at an early age, we call them naturals. They have no fucking idea what they are doing and they think chicks dig their stupid hairstyle.
• You will get sucked into the reality of higher status people and lose your personality and your agency. If this never happened to you I pity you. You never interacted with really high status people. (If Elon Musk told me to get some burgers, I am not gonna go NO ELON, I LIKE PIZZA -rofl- I'm gonna say "Of course Elon, after that can I suck your dick?") Ofc, some people's frames are stronger than others but they are frames nonetheless. Read Pitch Anything for more info on frames from a sales context or watch the Blueprint Decoded to fix this whole fucking problem regarding pickup.
  • I remember when I was in a meeting with this super high level CEO when I was first starting my company. Dude, I couldn't even fucking think. I was mesmarized and sucked into that guys' frame. I never drank for 3 years, he ordered a beer and I automatically ordered one. Again, read Pitch Anything if this phenomenon is foreign to you. Or you could read "Influence" by Cialdini.
• With game, with your energy, vibe and stronger frame you could suck everyone into your frame of reality. This is called frame control/battles. Very old school PUA/sales concept. And people just go along with your stronger frame.
• Now they could just not be available, in a bad mood OR LITERALLY A BILLION OTHER REASONS COMPLETELY NOT RELATED TO YOUR ATTRACTION AND JUST NOT FUCKING TALK TO YOU.
  • Did this ever happen to you? Where you're really into a girl. But you're so fucking in your head that you're so anti-social in the moment and even if she gives you interest YOU FUCKING DISMISS HER even though you wanna talk to her? If it didn't, you should get more responsibilities in life. Or you freeze out of fear, have an in-the-haze autopilot response. You are just not in a social mood and reject her out of a fear of rejection from her. (A common problem in pickup is newbies rejecting girls, ejecting from sets, all the time because they like the girl too much, the set is too important.) To think, all rejection is due to attraction is fucking retarded.
  • LIKE THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER FACTORS THAT GO INTO WHETHER A GIRL WILL TALK TO YOU OR NOT BUT JUST MERE ATTRACTION. Incompatibility, chemistry, availability, social fear, world-view, resistance, etc etc.

Alright. I guess that's enough to explain that part. Cheers.

Great post.

I don't disagree here. Just want to mention that this is "one particular" way of doing things, and I wouldn't call it "Game 101". But very Mystery-method like style you describe there. Which works, although not my go-to - but to each their own.

Best,

 

[YS.]

Good job @YS.


I have a LR just like this in this forum. Where my girl didnt like me and then because her friend liked me, she helped me pull my girl home. I also have another LR where because of the social proof I created in the venue, had one smoking hot chick approach me and made it easy for me. Had I gone up to her and approached her directly, would it have lead to the same result (level of ease? (Would have been difficult because I'd have to go to her bottle service table) Who knows)

And if the friends didnt like you either? Weren't there? You think you'd still pull her?

First of all, thank you brother!

But now you're talking about situational dynamics/logistics.

I thought your whole idea is Attraction is either there or it isn't. (Which is incorrect.)

That was what I was arguing against. Not anything else.

Getting a girl is 99% not due to your attraction but the situation in the first place.

Logistics will ALWAYS trump game.

I was never talking about the logistics of one situations. I just gave you an example of a hard-blowout of a girl where 30 mins later she was so incredibly attracted to me. I. Attracted. Her.

The question whether I would have the CHANCE logistically to attract her is something else completely. (That's why group theory is so crucial lol. It's so easy to attract her by winning over friends. Yeah, Mystery!)

But that has nothing to do with attraction.

Honestly, most of game has nothing to do with attraction. I think we would agree here.

But attraction is -easily- generated or lost. It is not static. (You know, the classic "volume knob" analogy.)

 

[pinpin]

probably more a result of the girl being in a bad mood or something. A bad reaction doesn't always mean she's not into you at all. So i'm sure some sets can be turned around

 

[Teevster]

Thanks for this post, the first half (old school vs new school) cleared up a lot of things for me since coming back to the seduction community. Since I know nothing about the new school, I honestly thought it was an evolution of old school. I was left scratching my head in several threads why some guys were so vehemently opposed to the possibility of ugly guys being able PU hot chicks or broke dudes being in LTRs with beautiful women. I was also wondering why the new generation of guys weren't pushing the boundaries much much further than what the old schoolers did.

Now it clicks, the new school stuff is a simplified subset of the old school stuff requested by popular demand. This is a big aha moment for me.

You are welcome.

Well in my opinion pick up has kind of lost its fame. And therefore, in order to make money, commercial actors had to make it more "mainstream". You can't sell a social skills at the level of a KGB/CIA-interrogator to average joe.

Other factors affected the seduction community too:
- The fall of mASF (sedfast never became as big - although the place was really good in its early days)
- The rise of the MRA/manosphere - many guys became political and a big chunk of men who struggled with women, would now become politically active and blame their failures on feminism, culture, and women... and instead of changing themselves, decided they wanted to change the world instead. It split the community in two.
- The incel movement.... (emerged from the pick up community....)
- MGTOW movement (related to the manosphere)

At this to the crisis related to the Julien Blanc case and the bad rep PUA's have gotten in the media (oftentimes, it was justified - guys going retard in the street harassing women simply AIN'T cool - sadly the whole community took hits).

As for the 2nd half of your post, especially about the lesbian / gay stuff, I never understood the dynamics until now. Interesting, not my thing, but still interesting none the less.

Well, I know most of you guys won't go for lesbians, but it was primarily used as an example on how one can get laid without "attraction", purely based on compliance. I also though using the lesbian examples would make a more fun read.

But you know me man... me and gay clubs...



Best,

 

[Velasco]

I just gave you an example of a hard-blowout of a girl where 30 mins later she was so incredibly attracted to me.

If I go to a club and approached a girl that didnt like me (doesnt mean putting her palms in my face @Razorjack lol. That's a bit extreme. Im talking about she simply wants me to go away) What I've have to do if I take your advice, is to now win over the friends? And if they do not like me either. What then? MAKE them like me? Lol

 

[YS.]

I disagree here.

Yes newbies where rationalizing back then. This has always been the case. But what seems to be the new trend is that newbies tend to be "VERY SURE OF THEMSELVES". And of course, they never ask questions - just make bold claims about everything.

Most advanced guys will realize that very bold claims are dumb. If there is one rule of thumb in pick up it would be something like "it depends" - just like ToddV said (in Chrance's quote).

I agree.

I also find myself defending my deep rooting convictions as a default rather than being self-analyzing.

It for sure is a fault that I try to correct as much as possible.

I agree with the "It depends." concept.

Another one:

"Map is not the territory."

I have always loved that one.

Cheers, man!

 

[YS.]

If I go to a club and approached a girl that didnt like me (doesnt mean putting her palms in my face @Razorjack lol. That's a bit extreme. Im talking about she wants me to go away) What I've have to do if I take your advice, is to now win over the friends? And if they do not like me either. What then? MAKE them like me? Lol

She wants you to go away but hot girls are rarely alone. Usually someone in the group will like you. (Honestly it's almost always better to open the group than the girl to get passive attraction in my experience.) And then you could show how awesome you are and attract the girl.

Sniper game is more like a blow me or blow me out kinda game but you can still hold your frame and break hers. Of course, with more volatility.

 

[Teevster]

Logistics will ALWAYS trump game.

Ah! We have a topic for a later discussion right here.

Back in the days, we used to say "game trump logistics". Of course this is not always the case, but occasionally, and only occasionally when one has delivered perfect game, perfect delivery and with a bit of luck, then logistics would not matter - i.e. "game trumps logistics".

Say you have a girl. Vibe is right. Rapport is right. She is horny. You are horny. You escalate to the point of no return. She just got to have your dick now... then... "logistics would create themselves".

Lots of "IF's" though. But in this case:

Game > logistics.

I remember it was Captain_Jack saying that "game trumps logistics".

But it is easier said than done.

And... otherwise I have to agree.... that logistics trumps game in like 80+% of time.

For instance:

Person A: Runs perfect game... hooks, escalates, sets the right frame. Girl is compliance, very compliance. But the girl's friends drags her away to drag her to an after party.
Person B: Has no game, but ends up alone in a room at that after party. He touches her. He gets laid

In this case:

Logistics > Game

So personally I tend to avoid saying one is more important than the other. Because as we have seen, "it depends".

But the fact remains the same: Both are deadly important.

And that is all I need to know...

Best,

 

[Teevster]

@Teevster dude! Really love the thread, your epilogue has helped me understand some of my encounters with lesbians better but not all of them. I'm also off the same mentality that you can have success with a lot more than greenlight girls.

Thanks! Happy to hear you like it.

Playing devil's advocate on this (not that I agree with @flatron reply because there isn't an argument to anything you discussed) he mentioned if a girl thinks your ugly it's game over which isn't totally wrong. The argument I will put forward to this using your epilogue is you said this lesbian girl gave you time off day. This gives you an opportunity to use your verbal game and other techniques.

If she didn't give you time off day and walked off it wouldn't have been possible.

Just because I am claiming you can turn greens to yellow, I am not saying that it is always doable. As I mentioned "no other disturbing factors" must take place.

If you are ugly, there are ways to make you reach the "decent looking" threshold - or at least close to it such as grooming, awesome haircut, fixing skin problem, fixing teeth, style (big one), losing weight etc.

Most guys who struggle because they claim to be too ugly, after having met them (or seen pictures of them online), have in 90% of the case made 0 effort to fix the issue. They are ugly, but do their teeth have to be yellow? Do their hair really have to be greasy?

Now, if one is so ugly that even fixing those fundamentals won't help - i.e. if we are litterally talking about a living Quasimodo, then I think we are dealing with an extreme case. Extreme cases are outliers. You will always find outliers to the rule.

If she didn't give you time off day and walked off it wouldn't have been possible.

I'm not sure if availability can sum this up but if a girl is totally not interested in your time and won't talk to you nothing can flip this around in this moment. Social proof and pre selection or something to make her re evaluate you is all you can do - unless it's her availability that's the issue. This can be out of your control. It would be alot off hard work to build compliance from this.

Social proof is one of the best solutions here (there are others). If ther availability is caused by a logistical issue, then you are not gaming in what i have labelled "propper conditions", especially if it is an unsolvable one (i.e. the girl is being arrested and detained by cops... then there is nothing you can do...)

 

[pinpin]

But compare that to this absolute stunner that I really wanted to bang at a wedding I was at a few weeks before. I opened her. I also had some 'social proof' from a pretty girl who also was telling the target lots of goood things about me (mystery says this is very powerful dhv/social proof). I then teased her, used emotional language with NLP stuff, sex talk etc, influence tech etc, but it was all for nought. She just wasn't attracted to me so it didn't go anywhere. I'm convinced that nobody in the world could have pulled her in my body lol.

Girls have types. It is what it is

 

[Razorjack]

You are welcome.

Well in my opinion pick up has kind of lost its fame. And therefore, in order to make money, commercial actors had to make it more "mainstream". You can't sell a social skills at the level of a KGB/CIA-interrogator to average joe.

Other factors affected the seduction community too:
- The fall of mASF (sedfast never became as big - although the place was really good in its early days)
- The rise of the MRA/manosphere - many guys became political and a big chunk of men who struggled with women, would now become politically active and blame their failures on feminism, culture, and women... and instead of changing themselves, decided they wanted to change the world instead. It split the community in two.
- The incel movement.... (emerged from the pick up community....)
- MGTOW movement (related to the manosphere)

At this to the crisis related to the Julien Blanc case and the bad rep PUA's have gotten in the media (oftentimes, it was justified - guys going retard in the street harassing women simply AIN'T cool - sadly the whole community took hits).




Well, I know most of you guys won't go for lesbians, but it was primarily used as an example on how one can get laid without "attraction", purely based on compliance. I also though using the lesbian examples would make a more fun read.

But you know me man... me and gay clubs...



Best,

I know exactly what you mean about guys going retard on the street.

I remember in 2005, there was a European PU summit in Vienna, that I was invited to along with Badboy, Cortez and a couple other so called "gurus" at the time. Man, by far the biggest challenge was to stay away from where all the anti-social retards were going around harassing women on the street. Constantly bugging me to show them the Asshole Rockstar, do a street pick up while the girl is walking by 60 guys, etc , zero fucking empathy.

Luckily the guy that me, Badboy and Cortez were staying with anticipated this. He would spread rumors to the 200 guys at the summit "Badboy and Razorjack are going to be at this night club tonight!" , meanwhile we hit up a totally different venue on the other side of the city. LOL!

I'm in no way do I think mASF were the glory days. Even at it's peak, there were a bunch of anti-social retards trying to pose themselves off as pick up masters. I also avoided meeting up a lot of the known PUAs because most of them actually sucked.

It was interesting that one of the best guys I met, barely posted anything and his game was nothing flashy at all, but he was incredibly consistent. Within 15 minutes, he had chicks physically hanging on him, he could literally pull girls home in less than 20 minutes night after night after night after night...…


Yeah, you and your gay clubs! LOL!

I just couldn't get the vibe of that place in Cph. The only thing I got were hot girls that approached me...... to introduce their gay (guy) friend or gay guys asking me if I played the Hulk in the Marvel Avengers movies!

 

[Teevster]

If you guys don't mind, I'll rant a bit about my take on attraction.

I never worried about whether a woman was attracted to me or not, to me this was too much of a limiting belief.

I am kind of the same - although my take is different than yours. Getting to it in a min.

Instead I assumed that every woman was attracted to me. I adjusted my mindset to not only believe this but to live and breathe it.

Yes... "assuming attraction" was a big thing back then. Personally, I have seen this works for people (it surely worked for you!). But it does not work for everyone, and it surely did not work for me.

Here is why.

"Assuming attraction" faces similar problems that affirmations (i.e. "I can do it") - namely that some people are fully to convince themselves, whereas others are not. Additionally, on those on this does not work, it can have a secondary negative effect - namely that they become self-conscious about it. They going all "meta" around the affirmation.

Ok this may seem a bit hard to grasp and is equally hard to explain for me. So an example should do:

Razorjack: "All women are into me" => you start believing that and it affects your actions and overall behaviour.
Teevster: "All women are into me" => makes me become self-conscious, making me ask "why do I need to tell this to myself, is it because I need to convince myself". And then the affirmation turns into "I have to tell myself that "all women are into me" because..." and it end up having an opposite effect.

My case is common and this is why affirmations have gotten out of fashion in the NLP world. It seems to be a double edged sword.

However what I do is that I always ask myself: "Ok what is the next step" or "what can I do to get further with this girl now".

Basically I had a belief that there is ALWAYS something I can do. will it always work out? No! But doing nothing, tend to lead to nothing (unless you are lucky - but I do not want to rely on luck).

My belief is "I can always build compliance". I have such deep trust in my game, that I know that IF the conditions allows me for it (i.e. I can get to deliver some nice 1on1 verbal game) the girl will become compliant.

For some reason I feel it is the same with you. Remember when we talked with each our girl at this cafee? That's what perfect conditions are to me. You seemed to do quite well there yourself.

So when I was out picking up women, there was never any doubt in my mind whether a woman was attracted to me or not, I only needed to trigger her awareness of her attraction for me.

That's mindset, but what is interesting is how it has the same effects as my mindsets. Because....

Here's an example:

Before I developed the Asshole Rockstar, it was a bit more work but it typically went something like this.

1. I see a girl that I want at a nightclub
2. She doesn't show interest even after making eye contact
3. Did I think she wasn't attracted? NO! I thought "she just isn't aware of how attracted she is to me yet."
4. So how do I trigger her awareness? Tactics
5. Option #1: cute couple routine -
   1. wait for a guy to approach her
   2. before he has a chance to run his game, I jump in with "Hey, you two make such a cute couple!"
   3. Even better if my target is with a girlfriend - say to the girlfriend - "don't you think they make a cute couple"
   4. This ends up short-circuiting the other guy's entire interaction with her and gets her curious about me - triggering her awareness of her attraction for me
6. Option #2: Blatant social proof
   1. Find another girl close by my target that is already aware of her attraction for me and is showing it
      
   2. Hit up the 2nd girl and set it up so we're touching each other in directly in front of my target so that there is no way she can miss seeing us
   3. Turn up the heat with the 2nd girl until the first one starts to stare and/or be hypnotized / fascinated - awareness triggered
7. Option #3: Variation of blatant social proof
   1. This one worked very well on the high status seeking girls
   2. Find a 2-set (2 girls who came to the club together) near my target
   3. position myself and the 2-set again in front of the target where she can't help but notice us
   4. do the 3-some drinking tequila routine (me and the 2-set do tequila body shots on each other, me on both girls and the girls on each other) in front of my target
   5. watch the target's buying temp go through the roof! LOL!

... all these strategies are things I would do myself (before I get to talk to her - If I can talk to her I prefer doing some verbals). In fact a few weeks ago I submitted GC articles that cover similar strategies.

Say... a girl is not attracted to me. Then I know I can always build compliance. Consider I am not talking to her, I will tend use any of those amazing techniques you cover (or something similar).


BTW... nice list there! I love such type of social proof game. My favorite style after verbal game! but ... again... does not work in overly chaotic venues. Sadly.

Best,