Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game

[K__]

Even outside of building desire / compliance which I agree with, any girl could tell you about a guy she wasn't attracted to at first, but became attracted to over time and eventually ended up dating. But if you're a guy solely focused on cold approach night game you might not see this common counterexample.

Having an initial "spark" is exciting and makes things easier, but there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. One sign of a seducer is one who gets with women who would say he's not her type, but he made the right moves and got her interested.

 

[Teevster]

Yeah, most of my 'no girls' either simply ignore me/put their palm in my face as if to say 'fuck off' (this is more in clubs etc) or they'll just clam up and not reply to anything i'm saying, give me the bare minimum replies and clearly want me to go away lol. Some are socially available and will talk etc, but you can just tell there isn't attraction there from their end. Like, at all lol. Just not her type.

Girls giving you the palm or telling you to fuck off, is not very common for more skilled seducers.

Here is what I think:
- You have some fundamentals not in shape. Those really bad responses tend to be caused by a lack of fundamentals
- Your way of approaching - i.e. not only what you say, but the angle, the body language, the vibe your deliver (but also what you say) could very well be off.

Fix those twos, and odds are, you won't get those super harsh replies.

The issue you are dealing with is called "bitch shield". There are ways to handle this. Sadly it is not the topic of the thread, but I suggest you bring up this problem in a new thread (it is a good topic!). I honestly believe you are doing yourself a huge disfavor by not started a thread about this. This is a sticking point you got to solve.

Ignoring you or being cold is a pretty standard responses though. They will still happen. Even some slight bitchy vibe can still occur. Now mind you that this is not necessarily a sign that she is not into you. It could very well be a test - and oftentimes it is. Once you get past that "bitchshield" (some have also labelled this "approach-shields") you may realize that many of those girls turns out to be a sweet little puppies.

So again, it could be a test.

Of it could be that she is not into you.

How can you know which one you are dealing with? You can't. And knowing exactly why she is acting the way she is doing is not important. In fact it will only suck out necessary mental energy out of you and nothing good will come out of it.

However, what you need to do, is focus on how you can deal with the current situation.

No matter what the cause is, whether it is a test or whether it is because she is not into you, the solutions are the same. The way you proceed are the same.

How do you proceed? well... this is another topic that should be covered in an individual post. However, Razorjack shared some REALLY great techniques in this thread.

I will add those in quotation:

Here's an example:

Before I developed the Asshole Rockstar, it was a bit more work but it typically went something like this.

1. I see a girl that I want at a nightclub
2. She doesn't show interest even after making eye contact
3. Did I think she wasn't attracted? NO! I thought "she just isn't aware of how attracted she is to me yet."
4. So how do I trigger her awareness? Tactics
5. Option #1: cute couple routine -
   1. wait for a guy to approach her
   2. before he has a chance to run his game, I jump in with "Hey, you two make such a cute couple!"
   3. Even better if my target is with a girlfriend - say to the girlfriend - "don't you think they make a cute couple"
   4. This ends up short-circuiting the other guy's entire interaction with her and gets her curious about me - triggering her awareness of her attraction for me
6. Option #2: Blatant social proof
   1. Find another girl close by my target that is already aware of her attraction for me and is showing it
   2. Hit up the 2nd girl and set it up so we're touching each other in directly in front of my target so that there is no way she can miss seeing us
   3. Turn up the heat with the 2nd girl until the first one starts to stare and/or be hypnotized / fascinated - awareness triggered
7. Option #3: Variation of blatant social proof
   1. This one worked very well on the high status seeking girls
   2. Find a 2-set (2 girls who came to the club together) near my target
   3. position myself and the 2-set again in front of the target where she can't help but notice us
   4. do the 3-some drinking tequila routine (me and the 2-set do tequila body shots on each other, me on both girls and the girls on each other) in front of my target
   5. watch the target's buying temp go through the roof! LOL!

These techniques are good. But there are other ways that are easier to pull (and less efficient). Again, make a thread about your issue! (wait a few days till this thread is calming down though)

But i'm in the UK. We don't really talk to strangers as much here - Maybe it's better in the US in terms of the 'baseline compliance'

I have had no issues picking up girls in the UK. I am also not from the US.

It is not common to talk to strangers anywhere really. Maybe in Italy - the fuck do I know. But this whole "things are so different where I live" way of thinking when you live in a western country is a bit of a waste of time in my book. Focus on how you can work out your situation.

And many... MANY great pick up artists have come out of the UK and many have enjoyed doing pick up in the UK (myself included).

I just don't like eating fries with vinegar though.

I'm interested in the '' VERY strong and powerful material - i.e. things that are so powerful that you hijack her system'' that the OP mentions.

Any examples? I've read and experimented with material from about every PUA book on earth (mystery, rsd, ross Jefferies, NLP articles/FR's on this site etc etc) and am yet to find something that can hijack her system and force attraction in me so i'm assuming it's nothing I've heard of, but i'll be happy to try it out after this corona mess!!

I could give you some examples since I assume you are really curious. But honestly, learn to walk first. You have a pretty basic sticking point already (bitchshield). And you need to fix that as your priority.

When that is fixed, you need to manage to get laid consistently from girls who are already somewhat into you.

Then, you may try to turn neutrals into greens with some more juicy material, and "good" delivery of game.

And after that, and only after that, you may try to turn "reds" into "greens".


Some examples of "powerful" and advanced material:
This, This, This...
and
This..

But again, it will fail if you don't have a good baseline to build upon - i.e. delivery, knowing where and when to use it, calibration, understanding of frames and so on.

Take things step by step.

Best,

 

[greenleaf]

@Teevster

Fear not. It's not like I get the palm in the face on every approach lol. Only occasionally on very hot young girls in night clubs when I say 'hi' or whatever. It's just their way of telling you 'no chance!!. Don't even try' lol. I go out with my young female cousin and her friends sometimes, and they often do it when guys they aren't into approach them too.
But typically, my rejections are usually just girls failing to really reply or 'hook'. Nothing too bad lol. Or it's girls who are sociable with strangers/friendly enough to let me hook, but there's no attraction (confirmed when I attempt some sort of escalation/compliance test etc) despite me applying game, so I eject.
But I am getting my lay count up quite high now, so I consider myself to have decent enough game (can bang a girl if she's attracted to me)
thanks for the links. It's actually as I suspected (I have various articles etc with very similar examples/theory already saved)
Cheers

 

[Teevster]

@Teevster

Fear not. It's not like I get the palm in the face on every approach lol. Only occasionally on very hot young girls in night clubs when I say 'hi' or whatever. It's just their way of telling you 'no chance!!. Don't even try' lol. I go out with my young female cousin and her friends sometimes, and they often do it when guys they aren't into approach them too.
But typically, my rejections are usually just girls failing to really reply or 'hook'. Nothing too bad lol. Or it's girls who are sociable with strangers/friendly enough to let me hook, but there's no attraction (confirmed when I attempt some sort of escalation/compliance test etc) despite me applying game, so I eject.
But I am getting my lay count up quite high now, so I consider myself to have decent enough game (can bang a girl if she's attracted to me)
thanks for the links. It's actually as I suspected (I have various articles etc with very similar examples/theory already saved)
Cheers

My bad then. I easily assumed you were more a beginner than a though based on what you explained.

If you have a higher lay count you may start trying to go for those neutral girls and get them in bed.

However before you do anything, I still believe you will have to work on that issue related to bitchshields.

Fun fact: me, just like you, struggled with this despite having a higher lay count. My "seduction game" was for a long time way superior to my "approach and hook game". And even today, my "seduction game (or call it "mid/late game") is way tigher than my approach/hook game (early game), even though I feel my openings and hook are tight.

So no shame in having a sticking point.

And I believe you should really fix this early game sticking point you seem to have. Even if it doesn't happen too often (glad to hear that), these forms of harsh rejection is usually a sign of something not being right in the early game.

Now what you like working on is up to you. Just my suggestions.

I would love to discuss further those "hijacking" techniques. But as you can see I have a lot of people to answer to.

Best,

 

[Velasco]

these forms of harsh rejection is usually a sign of something not being right in the early game.

It's a common response to social retards (sorry greenleaf, it's not ur fault lol) who clearly cant take a hint that she's not interested. So she has to escalate things by rejecting him in an even harsher manner so that he gets the message (like she tries to walk away (not with a smile on her face) (first rejection) and then the PUA responds by grabbing her wrist and pulling her back in (harsh rejection)

 

[Teevster]

That is a good way to put it

I view the seduction process (from meet to close) the same way as the sales process. After all, I have a post on here titled, "sanders sales method = game". In his book, "The Sandler Rules: 49 timeless selling principles and how to apply them", David Mattson, dedicates 3 principles to the art of prospecting:

Prospecting is the act of identifying those individuals who have enough of an interest in your service to have a more substantial conversation with you. Your goal is to weed out the suspects (anyone you might be able to sell your service to) who don’t qualify as prospects as quickly and efficiently as possible. There will be many more people who don’t need your service than people who do. if you focus on the emotionally charged, undesirable aspects of prospecting - the inevitable turn downs and rejections that are part of the process and nothing more - rather than on the more distant end results of the process, you set yourself up for frustration and disappointment.

Prospecting is to sales, what screening is to seduction.

I personally tend to avoid making a link between sales and seduction. They do share some similarities, but because of the nature of seduction, it differs a lot from sales. I therefore tend to avoid comparing pick up and seduction to sales.

Regarding screening - yes sure. I get all this.

The difference (and here we see one aspect where sales theory does not apply to seduction) is that with sales, you do not really care who you are selling to, as long as they pay. You can then easily move on.

This may be true in pick up and seduction too - you don't care who the girl is, as long as she is down to fuck, and happen to be hot/cool enought.

But then the above gets boring and some guys (myself included) occasionally bump into girls that is just OUR TYPE. We don't just want ANY girl who is hot enough and down to fuck. We want that girl.

It is like this non-existing situation in sales where the seller so badly wants to sell to THIS EXACT customer.

So I have a service/product (looks/fundamentals). And I want to sell it to customers who have enough of an interest in my service, to take have a conversation further (give me an opportunity to charm her).

Sure thing. But this is only a great strategy if and only if, you are somewhat disinterested in who that customer is (as long as they pay). In my case, there are times where you have this interest in "who that customer" is. .

So you go out approaching girls to determine if she is interested (I will use the phrases "interested" and "attracted" interchangablely) in you or not. If yes, then you'll then want to turn that interest/attraction (which is either there or not) into arousal (make her feel desire). Then lead that arousal to sex (logistical leading). Yes my seduction model is based off your approach

Nothing wrong with this. That is, you are not "looking for that particular" girl (to any beginners reading this - you simply should not go for that particular girl, instead get your skills together first and then go for that particular girl), or enjoy the ego boost from turning a "red" into a "green". I personally sometimes find that process fun.

Looks get your foot in the door, game converts that foot in the door to sex.

I recently gave a basic overview into my screening process here:

https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...urself-discussion-w-velasco.22716/post-114728

Yes. She is interested. (despite her not being all over me, like a green, she still wants to hear more). She is not telling me to fuck off (not interested in my service).

How is this [Edit: Getting laid = Generating desire + removing potential roadblocks (resistance: anti-slut defense, female self control, etc) + Logistics (i.e. handle the situation, the surroundings and so on)] different than [Edit: game is all about escalating the process, the vibe, and dealing with resistance]

Escalate the process = generate desire (sex talk/prizing). Dealing with resistance = anti-slut defense, female state control).

Escalating the process is not synonymous as "generating a desire/compliance". That is the big difference.

Escalating the process, is basically relying on the baseline compliance caused by "initial" attraction, and basically make things happen.
Generating desire/compliance in my frame-work is where the "initial attraction" is lacking. Here the artificial" compliance generated by me will replace this.

In your model, you use sex talk (sexual prizing) mostly as a mean to a) amp her up, b) set a sexual frame, c) escalate the vibe/process. There is nothing wrong with such use. I follow similare model oftentimes with "greens" and "yellow"

In my model, I use sex talk to generate a desire - i.e. make her desire fucking me, or least consider fucking me as a DIRECT result of sexual prizing (sex talk).

That is the big difference.

I will also note that dealing with resistance also can be used to up compliance - especially if you go so far as totally REMOVE it (i.e. the house gambit or the mirror gambit)

Desire/compliance can in many cases be the artificial tool that can make up for lacked "initial" attraction.

The only issue is see that we have here is in the attraction phase of the seduction (which you admit you don't even know if its even possible to create it. I am saying you can't).

Very correct. I was not sure whether you could create attraction or not. My main point was to convey that it was irrelevant to me whether it was possible or not. Because I knew that I could just build compliance (elicit desire, or get laid from logistics...) and the results would be the same.

As a PUA I am more obsessed with "effects" more than causes, simply because results matter, and because we are unable methodologically (epistemologically) to determine clearly the underlying causes. But we can determine the effects.

You say sex talk can create compliance in women (despite them not being physically attracted to you. If we were to take this one step further, this would mean that a fat grotesque old man can create compliance in women via sex talk DESPITE her not being physically attracted to him).

He may not use sex talk, but his game style is of similar nature. (found pic on google).

Also, the fat groteque old man, should perhaps lose weight first, and perhaps fix his style and grooming in order to not be grotesque no more.

Yes, but can it create compliance, if the girl does not view you as physically attractive? (RED girls). In my experience, greens and neutrals respond quite favorably to sex talk. Reds really don't want to hear it, cause they're not interested.

That is why, you bait them. Getting a girl to listen to you, is as much part of "game" as delivering say... sex talk.

Additionally, even if a girl is not into you, she may still be willing to listen and talk to you - maybe your are interesting to talk to. And then you slowly but surely transition, and you lead to another interesting topic... SEX. And from there, the damage is done


Best,

 

[Teevster]

It's a common response to social retards (sorry greenleaf, it's not ur fault lol) who clearly cant take a hint that she's not interested. So she has to escalate things by rejecting him in an even harsher manner so that he gets the message (like she tries to walk away (not with a smile on her face) (first rejection) and then the PUA responds by grabbing her wrist and pulling her back in (harsh rejection)

Why do experience guys, almsot rarely get those responses then? It is because women suddenly found them to be so much better looking? Perhaps, perhaps their fundamentals got better.

But HOW ONE APPROACHES matters too. I had the problem greenleaf had back in the days. It went away the better I got with opening. It went totally away when in 2015 where I (and carousel) made our opening and hook game into a priority. It was our priority for 2 years and we both noticed a huge difference.

Grabbing her hand post rejection, is obviously a sign of lack of calibration, and bad game. Hence this can be fixed by knowing how to leave the set, and follow for example the tips given by razorjack.

So again, it is mostly a game related issue.

Best,

 

[pinpin]

I think unless the instant hand in the face happens to someone all the time, or they are a virgin or something, it's likely just a case of him not being her type and not a game issue. If someone is getting laid from cold approach, then he likely isn't a social retard lol. Certain hot 18 year olds in the club simply don't want to talk to some random dude who opens her who she isn't attracted too. Many young ones are very superficial, and 'cliquey'.
Tyler got a few 'hard ignores' (not a hand in the face but close enough. Just a look of contempt and then backturn) in his last series of infields where he went state to state from the young girls lol

 

[Teevster]

Those are all valid points for a beginner (especially, so they can build up a foundation of good reactions) or intermediate (putting notches on the belt for pleasure and ego).

I forgot to mention this in my response to Velasco, but yes... for time-efficiency, the going "for greens" is the better strategy. It is also the strategy to go for on nights where you feel like shit or happen to have low momentum.

And I agreed 100% that the approach defended by velasco (but also by me, since I have stated CLEARLY that I see nothing wrong with it) is the best way for beginners and intermediate to developpe their game and gain some confidence with women while keeping them motivated.

My point (which you seem to agree with) is that it is possible, in many circumstances (not always of course) to turn a red into a green. It is hard, but possible.

Hell i'm in this 20 years, I almost prefer a "Red" for the challenge, the "game" of it.

Ditto. Although it depends on my mood and how "confident" I feel in my game. Good momentum is preferred here.

Teev is hyper advanced in all this and his points are REALLY valid for that/his level of game though. I give your post a thumbs up though cause I know you from other places and know you are a legit dude yourself and are willing to listen and learn from others. Even here you presented your case well for that you're doing that works for you that's a counter argument. I suspect you'll eventually get bored (like I did with pure Gunwitch Method alone results) and move onto more of the covert influence side of things yourself though.

Whatever you're doing, you can be doing better if you aren't working some of the better modern influence tech, no matter how good you are.


Gun

Well put Gun.

Best,

 

[Velasco]

Tyler got a few 'hard ignores' (not a hand in the face but close enough. Just a look of contempt and then backturn) in his last series of infields where he went state to state from the young girls lol

There was a video where Tyler talks about getting obliterated left and right in front of his students. And their jaws dropped because Tyler was supposed to be this super bad ass player. Then he just reframed the rejections and pickup as hilarous. So he didnt really care. Which is a great frame to have lol.

 

[Razorjack]

Hey @Razorjack,

I am very interested in what you wrote here, since I also see things in terms of frame:

Could you make a thread to develop and explain how one can do this? (and/or how you did it?) - I am sure I am not the only one interested in it, and it will lead everyone to a better understanding.

Klimax

Hey @Klimax

I'm actually at a loss as to how to explain this any better.

This may sound strange, but I have a completely different language with my natural friends compared to these boards.

I once invited, M-natural to join mASF, he lurked around and asked me "Hey, what's this Asshole Rockstar these guys are talking about?"

And I answered "Just project your reality to the entire nightclub", he replied "ah, cool shit!" Then he could go out and run it himself. While on mASF, I had to write pages and pages of micro details trying to explain it to guys.

Suffice to say, M-natural thought it was exhausting to read through the forum posts and gave up after a day.

Another natural friend, D-natural has a tight text game, I once asked him how he got a 3-some with a girl that approached him at a nightclub and her girlfriend. He said "I just wrote that all 3 of us should have fun together". And I got it, no further explanation needed.

Another asked me, how I got this one tall blonde at a nightclub, she was the attention craving / status seeking type that loves to blow guys out left, right and center.
And I told him: "I just walked up to her and said "Hey! Why didn't you call me last me week?" and she said "Do I know you?" and I said "No, I was just kidding, I'm Razorjack!" "

That's it, no further explanation needed, he could visualize how I went from opener to close.

I'll give it a shot.
And I'm not trying to be rude but it's like me asking you "Could you write more detail about how to put on a pair of socks?"
So please be a little patient with me if it doesn't make sense at first.

 

[Teevster]

Kind of late to this thread (awesome discussion and post btw).

Yes you are late to the party.

To the old school vs new school argument I think it's great to have the new school as an option because it does work and has a much lower barrier to entry for guys to get results.

Most guys that get into pickup just want to get a few lays and get a girlfriend and aren't really "students of the game".

Of course the guys that would be students of the game also get more success under their belt quicker too.

Then when guys become proficient and decide they want to become an advanced master they can learn old school tech to become elite.

I was never great at it but I love the thrill of taking a girl who isn't attracted and creating attraction in her and pulling her. The few times I pulled it off was extremely rewarding.

But I think it starts with learning the process on the "green" girls so you know how to lead a girl to sex.

I agree with all this. Good points.

Best,

 

[Teevster]

1.) What should I care about when I go out?

Which girls likes you, which girl you like. Compare the two, and judge which one you should go for.

In a perfect world, the girl you like also likes you. But more often than not, this is not the case.

Therefore you need to balance out the following:

1. Should I go for the girl who likes me?
Yes factors: Low momentum (then you should do it), lower skills (then you must do it, but not excluding that high skilled guys do not do this, as made pretty clear in this post), is she hot enough (if yes, then it is a nobrainer) and how lazy you feel (feeling lazy? go for the easy one)

2. Should I go for the girl I like, despite her not showing interest in me?
Yes factors: How hot she is - she better be a stunner, how good momentum you have (if your momentum is low, this will be much harder), how skileld you are (it is fine to push yourself, but generally it is adviced for beginners and intermediates to go for good leads), do you have the right "gaming condition" (i.e. can you actually get to run your a-game? for me that's my verbals, which means than in a loud environement I will face difficulties...) and lastly... do you feel like you want to go through the hassle? (i.e. not lazy).

You need to weight these against each other.

And yes, making the right decisions in field can oftentimes be one of the hardest tasks!

2.) What should I actively learn when I sarge?
3.) What techs are a waste of time and what are beneficial?

These questions should be discussed in their own thread. I have too many people to respond to here to really go deep into these subjects here.

If attraction is there or not, there is no point in me trying hard - I should just approach more and learn to screen better

If attraction can be increased, then I have to do new things I’m not even aware of. There is more responsibility on my part

Again, see my points above. all comes down to decision-making.

However the rule of thumb is to always go for what can grant you the most success that night. Realizing what this is requires really good diagnostic skills, which obviously impacts the overall strategic choice.

These good "calls" comes only from experience.. and yes, mostly from failing hard based on making shitty strategic call i.e. "I should have gone for that girl", "I should have stayed in that club", or "I should have been more sexual".

One thought I have involves a girl being “red” or “no attraction creation possible.” IMO there is no way of knowing why the girl was a “red”. Could have been your looks, your game, bad luck. There is no use in believing a woman is, as a matter of fact, a red girl unless there is clear evidence that baseline attraction was not met. So I think the pua should say “maybe I could have done something better” rather than “she was a no girl. I had no chance with her” <== the player has literally no proof he had no chance, so why give a shit and believe girls are “red”?

BINGO. 10 points to you here.

See one of my earlier responses to Razorjack, I discuss exactly this. You may also check out my responses to greenleaf on bitchshield.

My mindsets:

"You can always do something to better the situation".

And...

"You can always build more compliance".

Why a woman is behaving a way she is, is not relevant. What matters is how you can respond to it. I always care more about "effects" and how to "reach these effects" than the causes of her behavior. I save a lot of mental energy this way.

That is... in field. I never care about "what causes what" unless it has a key importance to the way I respond to the issue (which is rarely the case).

However, I may contemplate about the "causes" a few days later when I break down my night.

Best,

 

[Teevster]

This is a fun thread, @Teevster.

I'm in the boat @Velasco's in, that there is a sort of 'incipient attraction' (which I've dubbed 'fascination' to differentiate it from the other type) that is either going to be there or it isn't, based on your fundamentals, vibe... potentially related to some degree to things you cannot even control (like MHC immune genes, which is one of the most bizarre ones, but actually factors into mate selection).

I am kind of in that boat to, even though I tried to present some ways in which one could "affect" her attraction levels for you (through "affecting her perception filters") but I made it very clear that I was unsure about whether attraction could be generated.

But then my argument, takes a funky turn: I do not care about whether attraction can be generated or not. Because:
- I do not need it - I can get laid without attraction by only focusing on compliance (I used the epilogue to illustrate that)
- I can always build compliance (mostly through eliciting "desire").

However, I'm also in the boat @Gunwitch is in, that the most fun women to sleep with are the ones who aren't actually initially attracted to you (because they're more of a challenge of skill):

Same.

I think it's best for newer guys focus on this, rather than beat their heads against the wall trying to learn perfect game, while not getting laid in the process.

I totally agree with this. Gunwitch also seem to agree with this position.

I think it is important for the "common" reader that this post is not meant as a guide for beginners, but more a discussion aimed at experienced guys. What is the best way for "normal" guys to get laid, is not the topic of this thread - which is also why this did not become a GC article.

The easy-to-lay / low-skill-requirements girls are also the girls you want to focus most on when you're rusty or rebuilding momentum.

Yes, I do that too, myself if I have low momentum. Once I get out of this confinement, I swear I won't be very picky the first few outings.

However, after a while the girls who are into you from square one are not as interesting.They're also not super common unless you have Godly fundamentals, I suppose).

Hot girls, especially the very hot one, are not that common in the first place (on higher level, you want mostly "hot girls" (especially on higher levels where you are fed up with banging the regular "7"). From that pool of hot girls, a limited amount will be into you from the get go. This means that you have a VERY LIMITED pool of very hot girls to choose from.

You therefore have no chance but to find a way to get those girls who are not "initially" attracted to you.

And there is a whole set of women with repressed or distracted personalities where they often don't let themselves feel strong initial attraction for anyone (or they only let themselves feel that way toward men who are unavailable to them, or other weird things).

I find this interest. It is a subject I have not reflected much upon. I would love to read an article or a post from you on this subject - that is if you have anything to say about it.

You can still get these girls too.

Your take on that would be equally interesting.

Where the seduction basically goes "she goes along with it because she wants to talk and you seem cool" --> "she starts to feeling things with you she doesn't get to feel with a lot of guys, and she likes those feelings, and there isn't really too much to object to about you" --> "suddenly she finds herself alone with you, and she is still feeling those feelings, and you are making a move on her, and she decides she might as well just roll with it because at this point it feels good so why not?"

So more or less the typical "purely compliance-based" pull?

What you described is kind of what my interactions where initial attraction was lacking looked like - including some of my lesbo-stories.

I consider the emotion you create for this to be something different from the kind of raw, primal attraction you get with girls where you walk up and it's just there.

YES! and that is the disctinction I tried to make between "attraction" and "compliance". I chose those different terms to distanciate them.

Anyway... it seems to me this is a case where both perspectives are correct:

• There is a kind of initial, primal attraction that you cannot create, that is just THERE or it isn't there
  
  
• There is also a nurtured, generated attraction, which you create with game, with things you do, despite her initial lack of attraction

The reason I prefer the term "compliance" instead of "generated attraction" (I also see the word "desire" to be more fitting here), is that you can get laid... only because of logistics: stuck in a room with a girl, nobody outside of the room will know what happen (i.e. no ASD, no social pressure), and she happens to be be horny and you escalate hard.

She may have sex with the guy. The reason? The context - i.e. the logistics.

I wouldn't say that the logistics generated "attraction". It just does not sound right. However, logistics caused her to be compliant. Therefore I prefer the word compliance.

Another example, say a girl wants to bang a guy as an act of revenge towards her boyfriend. I wouldn't say that her motive is a form of "attraction". It does not generate any attraction towards you (as an available man she can use to commit revenge). She is in this case not attracted to you. You wouldn't call it that. However, you may say, that is compliant to you.

This is why I like to use the word "compliance".

I will answer the rest of your post in a separate comment.

Best,

 

[Teevster]

Even outside of building desire / compliance which I agree with, any girl could tell you about a guy she wasn't attracted to at first, but became attracted to over time and eventually ended up dating. But if you're a guy solely focused on cold approach night game you might not see this common counterexample.

Having an initial "spark" is exciting and makes things easier, but there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. One sign of a seducer is one who gets with women who would say he's not her type, but he made the right moves and got her interested.

I agree with your definition of a great seducer. Seduction is actually defined as a man who elicits strong emotions and desires in women.


But your first point was even more interesting. To answer this, I want to also add something Chase mentioned.

I will also say, I have had relationships with women I gamed into bed and relationships who did not have that initial attraction for me at all.

And the feeling is different than what you get with a woman who has that initial, primal (genetic?) attraction to you.

It is still nice. She can still fall fairly deeply in love, and be very attracted to you, and you to her.

However, it is noticeably different. There is a lack of that 'soul mate' feeling.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. If you are a busy guy and you do not want your relationship eating up too much time or emotional focus, it might be good to have a girl there you are not overly super attached to, but just nicely/reasonably attached to.

Chase

A girl I am seeing now had no interest in having sex with me but decided after a bunch of sex talk and stuff to consider "why not". It also helped that i lived nearby-

We went to my place ("just for a drink or two" right?)... and as many of you guys know, once A girl is alone at my place, in a 1-on-1 with me, it is game over.

GREAT sex took place.

Now, we have only talked about the pull. What about the more longterm relationship I had (and still have) with her.

Well she has grown on me, and I have grown on her a lot.

There are multiple factors that I believed played a role (each of these factors could have each their own dedicated posts)
- Great sex. Sex is always the pillar.
- Strong rapport and "connecting" post sex.
- Seeing each other multiple times, having multiple sexual intercourses and spending time together. This basically amplifies that connection.
- OXYTOCYIN is a KEY FACTOR. Its power is NEVER to be underestimated.
- Build a narrative together - "create a story" of you and her, with a theme, a story arc. The story has to be unique and exlusive. Construct "your little world" - both sexually and emotionally. This latter point would need a long ass of its own.

Regarding the latter point on narratives, I need to mention that this is a subject that intrigues me a lot. I did recommend Chase that book from Todd May - A Significant Life which was a great inspiration to this theory. Additionally, I will be writing a paper on love, sex and narrativity (love is... PURELY a narrative) that I will submit in May/June. Will be written in French sadly.

I won't spend too much time writing about this here in order to avoid derails.

Best,

 

[Skills]

Hey @Klimax

I'm actually at a loss as to how to explain this any better.

This may sound strange, but I have a completely different language with my natural friends compared to these boards.

I once invited, M-natural to join mASF, he lurked around and asked me "Hey, what's this Asshole Rockstar these guys are talking about?"

And I answered "Just project your reality to the entire nightclub", he replied "ah, cool shit!" Then he could go out and run it himself. While on mASF, I had to write pages and pages of micro details trying to explain it to guys.

Suffice to say, M-natural thought it was exhausting to read through the forum posts and gave up after a day.

Another natural friend, D-natural has a tight text game, I once asked him how he got a 3-some with a girl that approached him at a nightclub and her girlfriend. He said "I just wrote that all 3 of us should have fun together". And I got it, no further explanation needed.

Another asked me, how I got this one tall blonde at a nightclub, she was the attention craving / status seeking type that loves to blow guys out left, right and center.
And I told him: "I just walked up to her and said "Hey! Why didn't you call me last me week?" and she said "Do I know you?" and I said "No, I was just kidding, I'm Razorjack!" "

That's it, no further explanation needed, he could visualize how I went from opener to close.

I'll give it a shot.
And I'm not trying to be rude but it's like me asking you "Could you write more detail about how to put on a pair of socks?"
So please be a little patient with me if it doesn't make sense at first.

^hahaha! this is exactly what happened to me when i first join the seduction community, it was fight after fight after fight after fight..... Cause when you are a natural you really don't understand why so much "mental masturbation" then after you get settle in (took me about 3 years) then you start understanding stuff, the guy who actually was easy to read was david d, he made it simple... (double your dating)...

 

[Teevster]

I know exactly what you mean about guys going retard on the street.

I remember in 2005, there was a European PU summit in Vienna, that I was invited to along with Badboy, Cortez and a couple other so called "gurus" at the time. Man, by far the biggest challenge was to stay away from where all the anti-social retards were going around harassing women on the street. Constantly bugging me to show them the Asshole Rockstar, do a street pick up while the girl is walking by 60 guys, etc , zero fucking empathy

Cringe.

Luckily the guy that me, Badboy and Cortez were staying with anticipated this. He would spread rumors to the 200 guys at the summit "Badboy and Razorjack are going to be at this night club tonight!" , meanwhile we hit up a totally different venue on the other side of the city. LOL!

I think you told me that story over dinner if I am not wrong.

I'm in no way do I think mASF were the glory days. Even at it's peak, there were a bunch of anti-social retards trying to pose themselves off as pick up masters. I also avoided meeting up a lot of the known PUAs because most of them actually sucked.

Care to tell me which you though sucked? You may do so privately if you want.

Those I have met from mASF (who weren't randoms) where mostly all pretty good.

Yeah, you and your gay clubs! LOL!

I just couldn't get the vibe of that place in Cph. The only thing I got were hot girls that approached me...... to introduce their gay (guy) friend or gay guys asking me if I played the Hulk in the Marvel Avengers movies!

You are not the first one to find that particular venue "weird". Pablo (Pelusita) struggled to understand the vibe and feel at ease in that venue. It is after all a SUPER GAY VENUE. Eventually he figured it out and started pulling like mad from there.

Carousel has been there, and pulled from it, hahaha, but again he is a pro gaygamer (he has done gayclubs almsot as much as me, in fact he was gay club wing for many years - I know it sounds weird).

PS: BTW @Klimax has been to a gay venue with me. What is it with me and GAY-GAME.

Best,

 

[greenleaf]

It's a common response to social retards (sorry greenleaf, it's not ur fault lol) who clearly cant take a hint that she's not interested. So she has to escalate things by rejecting him in an even harsher manner so that he gets the message (like she tries to walk away (not with a smile on her face) (first rejection) and then the PUA responds by grabbing her wrist and pulling her back in (harsh rejection)

Do you me mean other social retards have ruined it for me, or am I the social retard!?! haha
But I certainly can take a hint and am very much aware when a girl isn't attracted to me/ i'm wasting my time. Hopefully that's clear from prior FR'S lol

 

[Velasco]

So more or less the typical "purely compliance-based" pull?
you described is kind of what my interactions where initial attraction was lacking looked like - including some of my lesbo-stories

"Where the seduction basically goes "she goes along with it because she wants to talk and you seem cool"

The girl in Chase's example thinks he's cool (a combination of his looks and fundamentals). So she'll be receptive to what he has to say (opportunity to charm her). She may not think hes hot as fuck as a green would respond ("raw primal attraction"). But she is definitely NOT a Red blowing him off the open.

Prospecting is the act of identifying those individuals who have enough of an interest [NOT an extreme level of interest where she's more or less already sold] in your service to have a more substantial conversation with you.

Your own description of a neutral's reaction towards a guy: "I won't chase that guy, but I could consider him... if... and only if..."

From Varoon's "the traffic lights system" article:

REDS

Reds don’t like you – and won’t like you, no matter what you do – so just delete them from your life forever.

I have heard guys complain about Reds as more of a form of a victim mentality – they typically say “I want this kind of girl, but she doesn’t want me. What do I do to get her?”

The simple truth is that she’s just not attracted to you in your current form, and probably will never be attracted to you, period.

Unfortunately, a lot of what other people think is beyond your control. You can’t make every person in the world like you, and that goes for women, too. So put your chin up and move on with your life! It’s a great thing that women are an abundant resource.

 

[Velasco]

Do you me mean other social retards have ruined it for me, or am I the social retard!?!

You are being a social retard in this scenario (not in general. I know youre not) because you're showing her you can't take a hint. When the only reason your trying to flip her is because you've got guys telling you, you can.