Socializing Does cold approaching not work in this day and age?

[ChrisXKiss]

It's one thing your approach can startle someone. Fine, I can live with that. It's a completely different thing when society completely writes it off (which that in itself isn't wrong) but now they got spreadsheets to keep track of guys whom they believe is toxic. If someone trying to get into cold approach makes mistakes that makes a woman feel uncomfortable, to him he just made a mistake he can improve on, but to others, he violated a social norm and therefore should be added to the list so others know.

I honestly don't know of any people cold approaching that have been added to some list and everyone knows them as weirdos you should stay away from.

I've done a number of weird cold approaches myself, I've had a girl take a video of me during the approach. I even approached the same one again randomly after few months and she showed me the video. I teased her about how much of an impact I made to her to save me on her phone. She wasn't open and rejected me again. I left and approached more.

I've never had a situation of someone telling me hey you are this guy that everyone in the city is talking about that he is going around harassing women. I don't even know how far you have to go to get there, but I expect it to be extremely far.

I wouldn't even try to avoid anyone. if you approach and they seem clearly defensive and apprehensive you excuse yourself and go. Most of the times someone rejects my approach instantly I basically laugh and find them weird.

If someone doesn't even want to hear an honest compliment about themselves that's really their problem, not mine.

 

[RDRChaseMember]

I wouldn't even try to avoid anyone. if you approach and they seem clearly defensive and apprehensive you excuse yourself and go.

Dude funny you mention that. That's basically what I do when I encounter these situations now. I pay a compliment -> immediate apprehensiveness -> I let it go immediately. And I thought that's how they want it too since they keep telling us that if we see she's apprehensive, leave her alone which is exactly what we're doing. But it's not enough for them lol. I guess at some point you just can't care about what they think.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

There's a couple of fundamental problems I find with this. 1. Saying you want dommes that doesnt see men as less than is already an acceptable PC thing to say. It's akin to saying you want a woman who doesn't think he's less of a man because he acts a bit feminine and not masculine traits. In theory it's good, but doesn't translate well to practice.

I don't see it as bad. There are women that will clearly express the idea that certain men are inferior to them. I think it plays a lot into the cuckolding fantasies too. I do believe though that truly dominant women who wouldn't want to be dominated by any man generally don't see men as inferior, they just appreciate them when they are more submissive since they match better with that.

And 2. Again some of them like the idea of "smashing the patriarchy " and challenging gender expectations more and they conflate that as just expressing themselves. I've seen more than enough liberal talk on those platforms to the point I can't take them seriously.

You described FLR as a lifestyle. Even that's dynamically driven, and some of the things I hear about couples in this type of relationship are very exaggerated forms. (then again it's kink and BDSM). But even then, before they start this, some of these dynamics are negotiated, so is that really their natural expression or are they following some dynamic contract?

Yeah that's why I am saying you should screen for women that are for real. True dominance cannot come because of society. It's like saying you become gay because society is more gay friendly.

I would stay away from these people that use the smash patriarchy front to be dominant. it's just a reactive approach to the world. At least long term, I guess you can have some fun if you like the dynamic.

And yeah if you go fully BDSM of course you have to negotiate some things. What I feel about a FLR lifestyle is that it is important to at least discuss why you want it and what you want of it, exactly because people in this space want a huge variety of experiences.

It would be useful to the woman to know for example that you don't just think of it as a kinky expression and that you are looking for something exclusive eventually. I mean even in normal relationships there is an understanding at some point of whether you are monogamous or not.

It definitely is harder to find women like this in regular approach environments, but as I said before in my previous posts, there aren't groups that actually bring those members who are naturally into it together (or maybe you had a different experience in the kink circle that you end up meeting women who are naturally into being dominant and are attracted to a more feminine partner). I don't really trust environments like that.

I have not actively looked for them to be honest, sometimes they pop up in certain dating apps. I have also been to some sexuality events that were run by an older dominant woman, she was very open and I didn't feel she was the way she was because of patriarchy. She just got to know herself and what she enjoyed more throughout the years. I think if you find someone like that and openly express your preferences and what you are looking for they will be glad to help.

There is something about finding guys that are open to explore their submissive without feeling bad about it, or like it's just a kink, that these women surely appreciate, since you don't often have that.

 

[KnownUniverse]

When I was active over a decade ago I developed a kind of sixth sense for spotting daygame interactions on the street, even if I'd missed the initial approach. I would see them regularly when I was out and about. I can't recall the last time I saw someone daygame in recent years, and this is in several major cities around the world. There appears to be very little competition out there and the controversy we've seen over pua street 'harrassment' appears to have died down. The first year I did direct cold approach street game, I would get positive responses from at least 80% of the women which had a really good effect on my state. The following year when I went back to it that dropped to less than 50%. It was like something had hardened in women. Maybe it's time to start going direct again?

my city has changed a lot. It's a major city but 15 years ago the cbd (downtown) was actually like a community filled with local people you'd make friends and hang out with. Now the CBD feels like a giant airport. Everyone is either going to work or a tourist passing through. The only people socializing especially with strangers are the homeless drug addicts (Which is partly what makes me so self-conscious doing day game). It's quite grim but that's the result of greedy governments trying to squeeze as much money out of the populace as they can.

 

[KnownUniverse]

I agree it made them become less sociable, I don't think being feminized has anything to do with social media and videos games (but I see it being more due to feminism). I use social media and play video games, I also consider myself more feminine in terms of personality, but it hasn't stopped me from putting myself out there and going after what I want.

A lot of what we call feminine is just fear and social anxiety. That should not be conflate as feminine.

With that said, I too am also able to spot when an interaction is a cold approach one. Recently this year, there was an immigrant man talking to a Korean woman in transit and based on the body language and a bit of dialogue, i can immediately figure out that was a cold approach situation. But it honestly made me happy seeing that and the dude was super respectful about it too.

society has become way less patriarchal as that has been the main agenda of modern feminism (which is really just the establishment monetizing female labor). This has made men afraid of women hence the lack of PUA activity I believe. I notice I'm way more confident talking to girls in developing countries than I am talking to them here.

 

[the player of games]

Tbh dude if you frequent more conservative circles (socially conservative as in they value traditional gender roles and what not) you may find them. Most of the women I meet in Toronto (esp those in art spaces where liberal views are the norm) there tends to be underground traditionalists there, but most women there respond to masculine energy even if that's not the PC thing to say.

I actually have more of an uphill battle being someone who's attracted to women with more masculine temperament. If I'm the feminine one, then her being the masculine one helps with sexual polarity. But she has to actually enjoy it, not be in that role as a byproduct of being with a man she percieves as weak. Me trying to filter this type of woman in is gonna be an uphill battle considering the mainstream liberal and political influence there is in the society I'm living in.

OK, you are an atypical man then in that respect. And you do have an uphill battle because you are going against how biology works for most people. Despite the current politico-cultural climate, which I think would actually favour people like you, most men are still wired for masculine behaviour, even if it's suppressed and most women, even though they have been encouraged de facto to behave less like women and more like men, will respond to that behaviour accordingly. Despite what female feminists say, they still prefer and respond much better to masculine men, especially ones who aren't intimidated by their (the feminists') 'strength'. The culture is helping you. It's saying it's OK to be you, it's OK to recognise your inner femininity, it's OK to want 'strong, independent' women and it's OK for 'strong, independent' women to want men like you. I don't think that's your issue.

I think your issue is that you are a man in a minority trying to find something quite rare - a genuinely masculine/dominant woman - as opposed to the feminist created 'strong independent' woman of today who is only adopting a culturally-dictated facade, whether consciously or unconsciously - a facade which she will quickly drop for the right (read truly strong, virtuous) man. I know you mentioned somewhere that you tried or have looked at the whole bdsm/fetlife thing and I agree, most of what you find there is a caricature of the real thing. I equate masculinity with dominance and femininity with submission (although it is actually more nuanced than that). And submission I don't see as a sign of weakness. There is a difference between submission and subservience (and it's very interesting - who do you think holds the real power - the dominant or the submissive? What will the dominant do if the submissive changes her mind and rejects him? Submission is a gift and privilege granted to the worthy man - one that can be revoked if he fucks it up.).

And your problem is compounded by the fact that in today's feminised society, the number of feminised and/or submissive men has risen greatly, all chasing the same limited supply of genuinely dominant women. That's why you see a huge amount of pseudo-dommes flooding the market trying to exploit these guys, including so-called financial dommes.

If you don't want to go the bdsm route (and I don't blame you) then cold approach is your only hope. Then I would suggest that you just go indirect. (When you go in direct, that is a very masculine energy that you are projecting.) You just then have to screen hard for the kind of women that you want. I think this will mean a lot of interactions that don't go anywhere, even more so than for regular cold approach. If you want what you want, you are just going to have to bite the bullet.

good luck

 

[RDRChaseMember]

I don't see it as bad. There are women that will clearly express the idea that certain men are inferior to them. I think it plays a lot into the cuckolding fantasies too. I do believe though that truly dominant women who wouldn't want to be dominated by any man generally don't see men as inferior, they just appreciate them when they are more submissive since they match better with that.

I re-read your replies and figured out you were talking about general dating sites. My apologies for the conflation there dude, I thought you were talking about kink oriented site, not dating apps in general.

Yeah, once I get stellar pics and get the algo to work for me, I should be back on dating apps and shit. In this case, what you're suggesting would actually work.

sometimes they pop up in certain dating apps.

Can you describe this? Are you talking about certain dating apps like Bumble or Hinge? Cuz I know dating apps have improved to include political affiliation (which I have no intention of filling out btw)? Or profiles that say kink friendly and what not?

 

[RDRChaseMember]

OK, you are an atypical man then in that respect. And you do have an uphill battle because you are going against how biology works for most people. Despite the current politico-cultural climate, which I think would actually favour people like you, most men are still wired for masculine behaviour, even if it's suppressed and most women, even though they have been encouraged de facto to behave less like women and more like men, will respond to that behaviour accordingly. Despite what female feminists say, they still prefer and respond much better to masculine men, especially ones who aren't intimidated by their (the feminists') 'strength'. The culture is helping you. It's saying it's OK to be you, it's OK to recognise your inner femininity, it's OK to want 'strong, independent' women and it's OK for 'strong, independent' women to want men like you. I don't think that's your issue.

I think your issue is that you are a man in a minority trying to find something quite rare - a genuinely masculine/dominant woman - as opposed to the feminist created 'strong independent' woman of today who is only adopting a culturally-dictated facade, whether consciously or unconsciously - a facade which she will quickly drop for the right (read truly strong, virtuous) man. I know you mentioned somewhere that you tried or have looked at the whole bdsm/fetlife thing and I agree, most of what you find there is a caricature of the real thing. I equate masculinity with dominance and femininity with submission (although it is actually more nuanced than that). And submission I don't see as a sign of weakness. There is a difference between submission and subservience (and it's very interesting - who do you think holds the real power - the dominant or the submissive? What will the dominant do if the submissive changes her mind and rejects him? Submission is a gift and privilege granted to the worthy man - one that can be revoked if he fucks it up.).

And your problem is compounded by the fact that in today's feminised society, the number of feminised and/or submissive men has risen greatly, all chasing the same limited supply of genuinely dominant women. That's why you see a huge amount of pseudo-dommes flooding the market trying to exploit these guys, including so-called financial dommes.

If you don't want to go the bdsm route (and I don't blame you) then cold approach is your only hope. Then I would suggest that you just go indirect. (When you go in direct, that is a very masculine energy that you are projecting.) You just then have to screen hard for the kind of women that you want. I think this will mean a lot of interactions that don't go anywhere, even more so than for regular cold approach. If you want what you want, you are just going to have to bite the bullet.

good luck

Your entire post to me is a validating statement. It's honestly refreshing to see that, so I really appreciate this dude.

You're right, the climate would favor a guy like me, but I'm in the biological minority which is something I have known for a couple of years now. One thing I'll say though.

And your problem is compounded by the fact that in today's feminised society, the number of feminised and/or submissive men has risen greatly, all chasing the same limited supply of genuinely dominant women.

Quite funny you mention that. I remember in the fetlife circle, there were a lot more submissive men then there are dommes, but even those submissive men I have to bring into question. Considering how ideologically driven that fet circle is, I have to wonder if these men really are feminine to the core or were they made like this by the society we're living in because there's a huge significant difference there. They also believe the political is personal which adds more into it.

Then I would suggest that you just go indirect. (When you go in direct, that is a very masculine energy that you are projecting.)

I understand your position and I should start considering this actually, but I think on some level I'm gonna disagree. Reason being is there are many men whom I believe are in their masculine energy that simply opted not to do any approaching. My best friend is like this and he's expressed on more than 1 occasion he'd rather be the man in the relationship. There are also women who feel compel to pursuing a man they like (only holding themselves back because they think that's not a feminine thing to do).

This one is more of a personal philosophy of mine, but I believe if you see someone you find attractive, then you owe it to yourself and the other person to let them know. But maybe there's a couple ways to do this while still being feminine? Like if I were to go indirect, I could then say later on in the interaction "I think you're attractive and amazing, do you want to go out?" or if I want to come direct with it but still maintain some feminine energy, I guess I could go with "I'm a bit embarrassed to say this, but I like the way you look and wanted to some say hi, hope that's okay." but like I haven't tried those out yet.

 

[the player of games]

"I think you're attractive and amazing, do you want to go out?" or if I want to come direct with it but still maintain some feminine energy, I guess I could go with "I'm a bit embarrassed to say this, but I like the way you look and wanted to some say hi, hope that's okay." but like I haven't tried those out yet.

Go with the second one. It's genuine and if you say it without timidity it will create vulnerability and strength at the same time. But honestly dude, you are going to have to be a pioneer on this one. You are going to have to experiment and experiment and experiment and figure it out for yourself.

I'm also in a minority, albeit a different one. I'm a much older guy only interested in dating much younger women and I've constantly looked for inspiration and a methodology that works. In the end, I realised that I am going to have to find my own way. In effect, become the inspiration I was looking for.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Can you describe this? Are you talking about certain dating apps like Bumble or Hinge? Cuz I know dating apps have improved to include political affiliation (which I have no intention of filling out btw)? Or profiles that say kink friendly and what not?

I was thinking of Feeld, which I guess is quite a bit kink oriented, but not like fetlife, it still feels more like a dating app but for more sexually open-minded people.

Hinge always felt more progressive to me too, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to find such women there.

Bumble feels more conservative to me. However both there and on hinge you can write some prompts that give hints of what you are looking for, if you don't want to go very explicit.

I personally like Feeld because you can check all the profiles in a radius around you one by one without needing to swipe right or left, and you don't get random profiles appearing to you first for whatever reason.

 

[Kaida]

Interesting, I never thought about glasses that way.

I wore glasses in high school. That, coupled with a brooding James Dean vibe, got me a few approaches from go-getter girls.

Switched to lenses for uni and vibe changed to more outgoing/smooth.

Never got approached again.

Exactly my experience as well

 

[KJ Francis]

Guys for anyone hesitant about daytime cold approach, if you want to try and see how girls respond to being stopped on the sidewalk without the pressure of a man-to-woman interaction, just ask her what time it is! I saw Karea mention this and it is also fantastic for approach anxiety. I was able to knock them out as social momentum warmups in REALLY quick succession.

I did three while looking straight up homeless on the way to the gym (ripped hoodie, sweatpants, unshaven). Then after shaving and such I did some more. I did it with 6's and 7's much younger than me and it was easy to see the shock of being opened, which quite possibly has never happened to these girls before on a sidewalk. And then it was obvious which ones were friendly/social and could have been extended into a real set.

I can really see it working to get your feet wet and as a proof of concept to yourself. It's great because you instantly get her to comply and put her guard down with a normal social ask. I could definitely see transitioning immediately to complimenting her outfit as a reward and going from there.

• [Ratty gym clothes, unshaven] Hi, could you tell me what time it is? I don't have my phone.
  • Hijabi working on her laptop: looked cautious, complied
  • Girl at the gym counter reading a book: complied
  • Cute girl in baggy style: looked shocked, complied, was in a rush
• Warmup: guy at food counter complimented my jacket. Wrote the website for him.
• Warmup: goth girl with white face paint at grocery checkout: told her about a goth club night.
• [Shaven, henley, cotton zip jacket, straight cut denim, Adidas] Hi, could you tell me what time it is? I left my phone in the car.
  • Nerdy girl: wide-eyed surprised, complied
  • Girl in long brown overcoat: wide-eyed surprised, complied
  • Cute curly haired black girl: wide-eyed surprised, complied with a smile

 

[KJ Francis]

Just knocked out five more in 20 minutes. I upped the target hotness and am still dealing with nervousness, but no issue with AA waving and stopping her.

Seems like a good way to get used to it, then work on talking slower, pauses, sexual eye contact, proximity, tension, etc.

Give it a shot! 100% compliance rate.

Fashionable hot girl in skirt, taller than me. I got nervous so she looked skeptical, but complied.
- Older girl with a watch, complied
- Real cutie actually got flustered herself, complied. I blanked on a compliment. Maybe could do false time constraint and transition to simple how's your day going as a fallback she's already open.
- Not hot girl, seemed haughty, still complied
- Black girl taller than me. Stuttered a bit, I got nervous, she complied.

 

[KJ Francis]

Last derailing post, just did 5 more. I am sharing these because this batch were all done in the RAIN with girls who had hoods up and such.

Over the whole experiment a good two thirds at least had headphones of some sort.

So in conclusion, girls are cool talking to strangers and it was very apparent how asymmetric returns comes into play.

I highly recommend that also beginners try this, or anyone else who needs a good warmup to shake off rust. I will definitely be doing this another time when it is not rainy so I can proceed to staying in set.

- Hot well dressed Latina with over-ear headphones, complied
- Punk girl with over-ear headphones, complied
- Cute brown girl, over-ear headphones, complied
- Straight up 8, she broke eye contact down and checked me out, smiled and said of course, complied
- Cute 7, looked excited when I waved and she paused her music. She looked disappointed when I asked for the time.

13 in an hour

 

[Spike]

Just knocked out five more in 20 minutes

By “work” he means as a means of consistently racking up lays with girls of his type in Toronto, Canada 2025.

Give it a shot! 100% compliance rate.

0% lays.

 

[KJ Francis]

By “work” he means as a means of consistently racking up lays with girls of his type in Toronto, Canada 2025.

0% lays.

His post is hard to decipher, but it seems he's saying:
1. Doesn't want to do high volume
2. Wants the girl type who will do the work
3. Has gotten one date in a year

Chase has said it can take 500 approaches (assuming at intermediate level) to find a main-tier girl. This guy has a specific type, so I think he is going to have to suck it up and put in way more numbers.

An indirect approach like this has no rejection until you decide to add tension, so would allow for super mass screening to find good targets, then have a neutral platform to let her put in the work.

I would try in the financial district, or around U of T.

And Spike you don't have to rain on the parade. It was all warmups and I was just starting to get into gear before the weather cleared the streets. You may think I am a hater, but I do respect your method for getting yourself laid. I simply view it as a passive strategy, not an applied skill set to seduce.

 

[Chase]

@RDRChaseMember,

I guess I'm zeroing in on this because there's a real possibility that I'd be cold approaching a feminist, and chances are I've already done that. I don't want to deal with feminists in my personal life, so I wanna find an approach that filters non feminists in and filters the feminists out.

Most girls are FINOs (feminists in name only).

They will parrot the talking points and claim to be feminists, but get them in a relationship with a strong dude and they'll move toward his positions.

IMO with dominant women (the kinds you like), the feminine dominant women are pretty much never devoted feminists. They're too independent-minded and empathize too much with women. Meanwhile their relationships with other women are too catty.

Most hardcore feminists are disordered in some way. Female autists, chicks with BPD, loaded up on pills (SSRIs, etc.). They have high-T levels but unlike cool dominant chicks their relationships with men are as bad as their relationships with women.

Anyway, if you ever end up dating a girl who does try to start some dumb feminist stuff on you, here's the guide to snapping her out of that:

How to Disarm Feminism in Your Girlfriend or Wife

When your girlfriend (or wife) starts bringing up feminist talking points, you need to know how to respond. Here’s how to defuse these and get your relationship back on track. This is going to be a somewhat in-depth article, with a deep look at the full (i.e., millennia- and...

www.girlschase.com

I'm also trying to reduce the possibility I'd end up on the awdtsg list (rn they seem to be targeting certain dudes in online dating, but they could expand to include cold approaches as well if they percieve it as harassment).

That's exclusively for men on dating apps.

A buddy of mine who bangs a lot off apps infiltrated that group and was telling me about a girl who posted his pics hating on him then other girls jumped on to defend him. Leave her better than you found her pays off, brothers!

It's one thing your approach can startle someone. Fine, I can live with that. It's a completely different thing when society completely writes it off (which that in itself wouldn't stop it) but now they got spreadsheets to keep track of guys whom they believe is toxic. If someone trying to get into cold approach makes mistakes that makes a woman feel uncomfortable, to him he just made a mistake he can improve on, but to others, he violated a social norm and therefore should be added to the list so others know.

Who cares though?

Let's say you're on 20 spreadsheets, meanwhile you are banging all the girls you like and having wonderful relationships.

Do those spreadsheets have anything to do with you?

I will tell you this, man: I have been posting stuff online since 2004.

I try to be reasonable and avoid offense as much as possible (I mean, within limits). But I have still attracted many, many haters and enemies over the years.

You can find all kinds of negative stuff about me online from people I do not even know.

I have had people threaten me with pretty much everything under the sun via the Internet.

At the end of the day, it's all digital ephemera. "Stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

The only fear that maybe is reasonable is "What if I attracted a group of dedicated haters who out me to my boss and then my boss thinks what they're saying makes me a complete villain and fires me on the spot?"

Which presumes:

1. That you are hateful enough to attract a dedicated mob of devoted haters, who have fixated on you instead of any of a number of other would-be villains
   
   
2. That some of these devoted haters are methodical and vindictive enough to decide to put together a proper plan of attack against, you, and
   
   
3. That the people they choose to attack you to are gullible enough or idiotic enough to do what a mob of random Internet haters wants them to do

Nobody's doing that anymore these days.

The haters who try this stuff catch more hate than the people they try hating on.

If you're worried about a bunch of gossips online chattering over "OMG how DARE he compliment me on my dress! I mean, it's like THE PATRIARCHY reborn!" then... well I don't know what to tell you.

Gotta toughen up your skin I guess.

The rumor mill is an inherent part of human society. There's no society you can go to where you can get away with it.

Men who are not immediately trying to marry always have people hating on them, in every society.


@KnownUniverse,

my city has changed a lot. It's a major city but 15 years ago the cbd (downtown) was actually like a community filled with local people you'd make friends and hang out with. Now the CBD feels like a giant airport. Everyone is either going to work or a tourist passing through.

That sounds like a pretty cool city center in your old city!

I've been living in big cities for 20 years and it's always been like your latter example for me... people going to work or tourists passing through.

The old version of your city sounds like it was a rare, neat treat. Almost a small town vibe!

Anyway, sad it's gone, but no use focusing on what's no longer there.

The only people socializing especially with strangers are the homeless drug addicts (Which is partly what makes me so self-conscious doing day game).

The solution for this is fundamentals (in particular, fashion and hair).

Just wear something that screams "fashionable, successful guy" and no one will be mistaking you for a homeless drug addict. e.g.:



Chase