How hard is it for an average guy to get laid and/or get a girlfriend in this day and age?

[DonGately]

What you say it's just one part.
The very essence of seduction is push/pull (in other words, sending mixed signals)... if you focus on just saying the right things, you're doing it wrong.

100% correct. 60% is body language, 30% is how you say it, 10% is what you actually said. Girls literally don't care what job you have [for example], it's all about are you confident about it, do you have passion, can you tell an interesting story.

 

[Shake&Bake]

@Shake&Bake, thanks for opening yourself this way and share the numbers you shared above.
This helps us help you tremendously.

The fact that you score yourself low in confidence, manliness and leadership worries me but I don't think that's the source of the problem.

If I had to guess from your posts, I think you're lacking in empathy, meaning you're not good to catch on people's subtle signals.
Like @Will_V says, if she asks you "what do you have to offer?" it is only as a result of you missing indicators of disinterest before and not adjusting.

If I am correct, then this is not a problem you have with women but with men too.

Do you have many different kind of friends or just a thight group of linke minded guys?
Do people often tell you that you "don't get it"?
Do you sometimes say things that unintentionally upset people?
Does it bother you when people don't "give it to you straight"?
Are you studying or did you study a STEM career?
What hobbies do you have?
Normally, do you meet with people outside of school for your hobbies? Sports team, acting classes, etc?

Not really any friends right now
Sometimes yeah
Yes
Yes
No
Like to read, play video games, do MMA, or box, wrestle, and fish
Not really. Mostly for work

 

[Shake&Bake]

100% correct. 60% is body language, 30% is how you say it, 10% is what you actually said. Girls literally don't care what job you have [for example], it's all about are you confident about it, do you have passion, can you tell an interesting story.

100% correct. 60% is body language, 30% is how you say it, 10% is what you actually said. Girls literally don't care what job you have [for example], it's all about are you confident about it, do you have passion, can you tell an interesting story.

If there is any cliche advice I hate more than anything behind just be yourself and all you need is confidence it's this one. It might have a decent foundation but I feel it's greatly exaggerated.

 

[ulrich]

Yeah, I think it’s definitely that.
It seems that you are so used to be by yourself and have so scarce social interaction that you end up giving a weird vibe.

This happens to a lot of introverted and solitary people.

It’s not that you are “weird” per se, it’s is that you don’t get a lot of small subtleties and non-verbal communication that most people (specially women) are constantly giving away.
Flirtation is particularly difficult if you lack this awareness because a lot of thing that happen have simultaneous contradictory signals (a girl turning her body away from you while keeping strong eye contact from the side and telling you “we’re not having sex tonight”).

The best recipe is socialization, honestly.
You need to get out, be with people, talk to people, do things with people, have long conversations... these kind of things you pick up subconsciously and your own body will start imitating them.... after some time you will effectively “reset” your communication patterns to the ones used by most people.

Have you ever tested to find out if you’re in the autistic spectrum?

 

[Shake&Bake]

Yeah, I think it’s definitely that.
It seems that you are so used to be by yourself and have so scarce social interaction that you end up giving a weird vibe.

This happens to a lot of introverted and solitary people.

It’s not that you are “weird” per se, it’s is that you don’t get a lot of small subtleties and non-verbal communication that most people (specially women) are constantly giving away.
Flirtation is particularly difficult if you lack this awareness because a lot of thing that happen have simultaneous contradictory signals (a girl turning her body away from you while keeping strong eye contact from the side and telling you “we’re not having sex tonight”).

The best recipe is socialization, honestly.
You need to get out, be with people, talk to people, do things with people, have long conversations... these kind of things you pick up subconsciously and your own body will start imitating them.... after some time you will effectively “reset” your communication patterns to the ones used by most people.

Have you ever tested to find out if you’re in the autistic spectrum?

I have not tested that. I've been interacting with people for a while now. But learning all these social cues are hard to learn. I really need in depth hands on help if I'm missing alot of social cues.

Can you at least tell me how you get girls? What's your process?

 

[Mike Silvertree]

OK, enough. I didn't bother reading this because I have better things to so, and can tell what is in it from the title.

The answer is, not all that hard if you try and don't expect to start right out doing threesomes with supermodels.

The plan is simple, socialize, talk to women, and if they show any signs of enthusiasm, keep talking, and try some of the stuff you learned here to move things forward. And don't give up if it doesn't work right away.

Please, stop making these whiny threads, and instead put some effort into finding and reading the many posts here on how to get laid. There is a search feature, and you can just page back through the various forums looking for useful threads.

 

[Will_V]

Do you have a shortcut to getting some success now? I've been trying for a while now. And I didn't always have this mindset. Even when my fundamentals were on point it wouldn't matter unless I had enough game. There's gotta be something you noticed as an advanced guy that most beginners struggle with.

And that's where the problem lies. You cant really use yourself as an example. I remember Hector telling me of picking chicks up in regular clothes like tank tops and shorts. But he has excellent game.

I dont have that. I've been trying to get game. Yeah I get offering value but that's what I've been trying to work on.

Give me an example where do you approach women and what do you say to them?

I don't consider myself advanced at all, there are guys here with tons more experience and knowledge who can help you tighten your game. Hector is no doubt on a whole nother level.

But I will say this, because it seems like there's a bunch of guys here who are burning up the streets without being aware of something fundamental.

I want you to picture a woman and a man, standing facing eachother. Forget about society and all its rules for a minute.

The average woman is something like five inches shorter than the average guy, with half the upper body strength. Not only that, but she has a pussy, expressly designed to be penetrated by a man's cock. Psychologically she is more emotional and submissive, while he is more aggressive by nature.

Now imagine for a minute what it's like to be this girl, knowing that there are multiples of these dudes all around who are turned on by the mere fact of you walking by. You'd probably feel a bit apprehensive right?

So let's say one of these dudes comes to talk to the girl, and that's why they are facing eachother. Before you think about what they might say to eachother, ask yourself what KIND of dynamic she could possibly accept from him as legit?

He could simply take advantage of her, which is what she fears the most. This is why women get spooked and walk fast if you are not smooth and friendly at the start. It is also why women highly value self control and calmness in men, and the ability to walk away.

But let's say this dude after smoothly opening just stands there and talks about the weather and agrees enthusiastically with what she says and then asks for her phone number. What's she going to feel?

Like she's being scammed, that's what. Here's this dude who is far more powerful than her, whose mere presence intimidates her a little, acting like the most mundane things are really exciting. It's not congruent, it's not what she expects. She'll either bail or shit test, and even if she gives her number shell probably regret it 5 minutes later.

So what will she be able to understand and accept as the dynamic between them? She already feels more vulnerable of the two, and no amount of chit chat will change it.

The truth is that she will only be able to accept it when a man acknowledges his dominance and power over her, but offers her an opportunity. How does he do that?

Well, the same way guys who are 'natural' treat women everywhere, by communicating 'hey, you're little and cute, and I like you, but you're not on my level. You've got my attention for now, but what can you offer me that makes it worth spending time with you, when I could be doing more important things like building my kingdom?'

That's the subcommunication, but how does it play out? With a combination of warmth and compliments (esp at first) combined with strong eye contact and gentle pressure to qualify herself to you and show you what makes her special (never going 'wow!' or 'cool!' but more like 'really? Whys that?' 'Don't all girls like X?' 'OK that makes sense, i can see youre X kind of girl') combined with dominant teasing like accusing her of the 'crime' of checking you out or looking at you 'like that' etc.

This is the foundation of the sexual male/female dynamic. You must realize that as a man you are in the dominant position by default, and must make her work to interest you enough to bring her up to your level, or she will think you're being false. And if you maintain your dominance, and make her feel good without trying to push the false illusion that you see her as equal, she will respect and trust you not just enough to give her number but also go home with you and bend over for you.

Guys must realize that NO woman will bend over for a guy who is merely friendly or nice. Why would she? It's a vulnerable, submissive position, she will do it only for the guys whose level she cannot climb up to any other way - then she can enjoy it, because it feels 'right'. She has won the attention of a strong powerful man with her pussy, this is the female version of the 'hero's journey'.

So instead of spamming approaches and aiming for the number, aim to create the right frame, you as man and she as woman, and her having to meet your standards and offer you things to keep you interested. Believe me, it will work wonders for your results.

 

[Shake&Bake]

I don't consider myself advanced at all, there are guys here with tons more experience and knowledge who can help you tighten your game. Hector is no doubt on a whole nother level.

But I will say this, because it seems like there's a bunch of guys here who are burning up the streets without being aware of something fundamental.

I want you to picture a woman and a man, standing facing eachother. Forget about society and all its rules for a minute.

The average woman is something like five inches shorter than the average guy, with half the upper body strength. Not only that, but she has a pussy, expressly designed to be penetrated by a man's cock. Psychologically she is more emotional and submissive, while he is more aggressive by nature.

Now imagine for a minute what it's like to be this girl, knowing that there are multiples of these dudes all around who are turned on by the mere fact of you walking by. You'd probably feel a bit apprehensive right?

So let's say one of these dudes comes to talk to the girl, and that's why they are facing eachother. Before you think about what they might say to eachother, ask yourself what KIND of dynamic she could possibly accept from him as legit?

He could simply take advantage of her, which is what she fears the most. This is why women get spooked and walk fast if you are not smooth and friendly at the start. It is also why women highly value self control and calmness in men, and the ability to walk away.

But let's say this dude after smoothly opening just stands there and talks about the weather and agrees enthusiastically with what she says and then asks for her phone number. What's she going to feel?

Like she's being scammed, that's what. Here's this dude who is far more powerful than her, whose mere presence intimidates her a little, acting like the most mundane things are really exciting. It's not congruent, it's not what she expects. She'll either bail or shit test, and even if she gives her number shell probably regret it 5 minutes later.

So what will she be able to understand and accept as the dynamic between them? She already feels more vulnerable of the two, and no amount of chit chat will change it.

The truth is that she will only be able to accept it when a man acknowledges his dominance and power over her, but offers her an opportunity. How does he do that?

Well, the same way guys who are 'natural' treat women everywhere, by communicating 'hey, you're little and cute, and I like you, but you're not on my level. You've got my attention for now, but what can you offer me that makes it worth spending time with you, when I could be doing more important things like building my kingdom?'

That's the subcommunication, but how does it play out? With a combination of warmth and compliments (esp at first) combined with strong eye contact and gentle pressure to qualify herself to you and show you what makes her special (never going 'wow!' or 'cool!' but more like 'really? Whys that?' 'Don't all girls like X?' 'OK that makes sense, i can see youre X kind of girl') combined with dominant teasing like accusing her of the 'crime' of checking you out or looking at you 'like that' etc.

This is the foundation of the sexual male/female dynamic. You must realize that as a man you are in the dominant position by default, and must make her work to interest you enough to bring her up to your level, or she will think you're being false. And if you maintain your dominance, and make her feel good without trying to push the false illusion that you see her as equal, she will respect and trust you not just enough to give her number but also go home with you and bend over for you.

Guys must realize that NO woman will bend over for a guy who is merely friendly or nice. Why would she? It's a vulnerable, submissive position, she will do it only for the guys whose level she cannot climb up to any other way - then she can enjoy it, because it feels 'right'. She has won the attention of a strong powerful man with her pussy, this is the female version of the 'hero's journey'.

So instead of spamming approaches and aiming for the number, aim to create the right frame, you as man and she as woman, and her having to meet your standards and offer you things to keep you interested. Believe me, it will work wonders for your results.

Ok can you give me sum examples of the approaches you do?

 

[ulrich]

Can you at least tell me how you get girls? What's your process?

My process it's not ging to help you because it is extremely simple:

Go out and walk in crowded places --> Locate girl I like --> Open indirect ---> Make a little deep dive ---> Screen for logistics ---> Ask instadate or get number

The thing is, my process has plenty of holes that I trust my instincts to cover on the spot.
How to react and calibrate seems to be your issue.

Go check Austen Summers channel in Youtube, the guy is extremely well calibrated and has plenty of videos.
DO NOT go and just copy what he says, LEARN FROM HIS VIBE.

 

[Will_V]

Ok can you give me sum examples of the approaches you do?

Typically, when I talk to a girl I want to know two things:

1. Is she adventurous and curious generally? This is what I value most in a girl's personality.
2. How receptive is she to me and my vibe, especially when I get flirty?

So a typical interaction goes something like this:

Me: hey I just had to come and say hi cos you look really stylish! <smiling>
Her: oh haha i guess, thanks! I just left work, so..
Me: oh really, what do you do? <looking a bit bored like I don't care too much about the answer>
Her: Im an architect.
Me <looking at her with a narrow smile>: do you actually design buildings or just like modelling in cad or something?
Her: I do some design, we use X these days not cad. <I'm deliberately a bit dumb and uncaring about these irrelevant details>
Me: so what do you like about it? You don't look like the nerdy type to me. <I don't care that I'm generalizing, my goal is to cut through this information and get to her emotions, without qualifying myself one single bit>
Her: haha well maybe I'm a bit of a nerd. I like to think about the design and where everything goes.
Me: I think I know what you mean. Like thinking about the people who will be living there, how they will use the spaces, creating a feeling of harmony and beauty.
Her: yes, for sure! What do you do?

At this point I have put her on the spot and found out something about her, completely avoided 'competing' with her status wise, and still managed to connect with her emotionally about her interest in people. As you'll see I usually try to connect on 'people' no matter what her occupation is, because it's a very general, emotional and socially acceptable theme that I can relate to women on.

During this I maintain a closed-mouth smile and strong eye contact with a bit of narrowing of the eyes, like "I'm not easily impressed"

Me: Im a writer.
Her: really?! What do you write about? <girls always seem pleasantly surprised to encounter a writer, I guess most writers introduce themselves like 'content strategist' or some other bs terminology).
Me: well to pay the bills I do technical writing, engineering stuff, it's interesting but nothing mind blowing. When I'm not working I like to write stories.

Here I insinuate that I'm a smart guy and can write about complex topics, but I find it boring and I dismiss it as just paying the bills. I want to connect emotionally remember, I'm not here to visit her parents. I want nothing to do with competing with her in intelligence or status.

Her: what kind of stories?
Me: all kinds. I like to write about people, like how they behave and handle themselves in extraordinary circumstances.

Here I let a smile grow a bit on my face while looking right into her eyes to start building some solid sexual tension.

Her: sounds interesting! <probably has a lot of questions at this point but doesn't know if/how to ask them>
Me: so what do you like to do when you're not working?

Now I turn it back on her, I really want to press her on what kind of girl she is, what is she on the inside.

Her: oh! I like to relax with a movie or something, you know..

Not good enough, she's gotta be more fun than this!

Me: I mean like adventurous things, do you like the outdoors or are you a city girl?
Her: I love nature! I sometimes go hiking.
Me: have you been to xyz?
Her: not yet! I want to though.
Me: yeah its really beautiful, you can just get lost in the smell of the sea and sand far away from civilization, daydream about..you know, all kinds of stuff.

I want to create a bit of a 'bubble' here where she's standing with me in the middle of the city imagining something much more natural and relaxing.

Her: yeah that sounds good!
Me: I like to meditate in nature. Just focus on the sound of the leaves rustling in the trees, my breathing, get out of my head and into my body, you know.

I always mention 'body' and related words like 'breathing' or 'touch' whenever possible to keep things focused.

Her: I've tried it, I'm not very good haha!
Me: it's really good for stopping that whirlwind of thoughts in your head, you know at the end of a long day..

Who can't relate to this? Everybody feels like a mess at the end of a long day. And now she's looking at me and imagining meditating it all away.

Her: Definitely! Do you meditate a lot?
Me: I try to, I like to meditate in different kinds of situations, like even in busy places. Most people think it's just when you're alone and cross-legged, but you can meditate even when you're walking, doing exercise <if the vibe is on, I'll add 'dancing, making love'>
Her: true! <she's not sure what to say, the tension is a bit high, but I'm unreactive and could stand there all day> so are you just walking around?
Me: <looks around a bit like I'm waking up pleasantly from a dream> yeah, I'm actually living nearby, I was writing some stuff and needed a break. What are you up to?
Her: oh, just going home, I have dinner with friends later <looks like she's starting to think about the time>

No point going further, we've already hit the high notes and she's starting to get distracted. Better that I end it now on my terms.

Me: cool. Well I gotta get back to it, but you seem like a fun girl, how about we catch up over coffee later?

ALWAYS qualify the girl right before asking for the number. It's a massive mistake I used to make, and it breaks the vibe.

Her: sure!
<exchange numbers and goodbye>

You'll see a few things here:

- I have NO interest in her occupation, I am interested in her. The moment I get information I convert it to an emotional connection. If she says something to impress me (I'm an architect!) I look a bit bored and ask her if she's 'just an X' where X is something not very flashy. If she got annoyed I would just laugh and bail, but good girls are not like that.
- If she gives me a not good enough answer, I press her until she gives me more. If she can't/won't open up to me, onto the next one.
- I am always leading the interaction. I lead her to the themes that she likes (people and nature) and then I talk to her about it in a seductive way, creating a bubble where she's imagining wonderful things. I take things to the brink of something sexual and then leave her hanging a bit with silence, strong eye contact and a slight smile, until it gets too much and she asks me something.
- I'm not afraid to talk about myself, but I do it always with an emotional angle that she can relate to. I present to her only the parts of myself that I want to connect with her on (sex, body, emotions, pleasure) and cut out any threads about things I don't want to relate on (job, money, status).
- Don't wear out the welcome. Once you applied pressure, turned up the tension, and released it, it's time to qualify her, get the number, and leave her wanting more.

NOT ONCE am I interested in showing status, money, or anything else except the ability to connect with her emotions, lead her through a wonderful interaction, and a vague interest in her as a 'fun girl'. With strong eye contact and unshakeable calmness she can feel that I know what I'm doing, that she's along for my ride, which is exactly how it is with me.

Hope this helps! Like I said, I'm not some kind of expert, but I think examples are always good to learn from.

 

[Shake&Bake]

Typically, when I talk to a girl I want to know two things:

1. Is she adventurous and curious generally? This is what I value most in a girl's personality.
2. How receptive is she to me and my vibe, especially when I get flirty?

So a typical interaction goes something like this:

Me: hey I just had to come and say hi cos you look really stylish! <smiling>
Her: oh haha i guess, thanks! I just left work, so..
Me: oh really, what do you do? <looking a bit bored like I don't care too much about the answer>
Her: Im an architect.
Me <looking at her with a narrow smile>: do you actually design buildings or just like modelling in cad or something?
Her: I do some design, we use X these days not cad. <I'm deliberately a bit dumb and uncaring about these irrelevant details>
Me: so what do you like about it? You don't look like the nerdy type to me. <I don't care that I'm generalizing, my goal is to cut through this information and get to her emotions, without qualifying myself one single bit>
Her: haha well maybe I'm a bit of a nerd. I like to think about the design and where everything goes.
Me: I think I know what you mean. Like thinking about the people who will be living there, how they will use the spaces, creating a feeling of harmony and beauty.
Her: yes, for sure! What do you do?

At this point I have put her on the spot and found out something about her, completely avoided 'competing' with her status wise, and still managed to connect with her emotionally about her interest in people. As you'll see I usually try to connect on 'people' no matter what her occupation is, because it's a very general, emotional and socially acceptable theme that I can relate to women on.

During this I maintain a closed-mouth smile and strong eye contact with a bit of narrowing of the eyes, like "I'm not easily impressed"

Me: Im a writer.
Her: really?! What do you write about? <girls always seem pleasantly surprised to encounter a writer, I guess most writers introduce themselves like 'content strategist' or some other bs terminology).
Me: well to pay the bills I do technical writing, engineering stuff, it's interesting but nothing mind blowing. When I'm not working I like to write stories.

Here I insinuate that I'm a smart guy and can write about complex topics, but I find it boring and I dismiss it as just paying the bills. I want to connect emotionally remember, I'm not here to visit her parents. I want nothing to do with competing with her in intelligence or status.

Her: what kind of stories?
Me: all kinds. I like to write about people, like how they behave and handle themselves in extraordinary circumstances.

Here I let a smile grow a bit on my face while looking right into her eyes to start building some solid sexual tension.

Her: sounds interesting! <probably has a lot of questions at this point but doesn't know if/how to ask them>
Me: so what do you like to do when you're not working?

Now I turn it back on her, I really want to press her on what kind of girl she is, what is she on the inside.

Her: oh! I like to relax with a movie or something, you know..

Not good enough, she's gotta be more fun than this!

Me: I mean like adventurous things, do you like the outdoors or are you a city girl?
Her: I love nature! I sometimes go hiking.
Me: have you been to xyz?
Her: not yet! I want to though.
Me: yeah its really beautiful, you can just get lost in the smell of the sea and sand far away from civilization, daydream about..you know, all kinds of stuff.

I want to create a bit of a 'bubble' here where she's standing with me in the middle of the city imagining something much more natural and relaxing.

Her: yeah that sounds good!
Me: I like to meditate in nature. Just focus on the sound of the leaves rustling in the trees, my breathing, get out of my head and into my body, you know.

I always mention 'body' and related words like 'breathing' or 'touch' whenever possible to keep things focused.

Her: I've tried it, I'm not very good haha!
Me: it's really good for stopping that whirlwind of thoughts in your head, you know at the end of a long day..

Who can't relate to this? Everybody feels like a mess at the end of a long day. And now she's looking at me and imagining meditating it all away.

Her: Definitely! Do you meditate a lot?
Me: I try to, I like to meditate in different kinds of situations, like even in busy places. Most people think it's just when you're alone and cross-legged, but you can meditate even when you're walking, doing exercise <if the vibe is on, I'll add 'dancing, making love'>
Her: true! <she's not sure what to say, the tension is a bit high, but I'm unreactive and could stand there all day> so are you just walking around?
Me: <looks around a bit like I'm waking up pleasantly from a dream> yeah, I'm actually living nearby, I was writing some stuff and needed a break. What are you up to?
Her: oh, just going home, I have dinner with friends later <looks like she's starting to think about the time>

No point going further, we've already hit the high notes and she's starting to get distracted. Better that I end it now on my terms.

Me: cool. Well I gotta get back to it, but you seem like a fun girl, how about we catch up over coffee later?

ALWAYS qualify the girl right before asking for the number. It's a massive mistake I used to make, and it breaks the vibe.

Her: sure!
<exchange numbers and goodbye>

You'll see a few things here:

- I have NO interest in her occupation, I am interested in her. The moment I get information I convert it to an emotional connection. If she says something to impress me (I'm an architect!) I look a bit bored and ask her if she's 'just an X' where X is something not very flashy. If she got annoyed I would just laugh and bail, but good girls are not like that.
- If she gives me a not good enough answer, I press her until she gives me more. If she can't/won't open up to me, onto the next one.
- I am always leading the interaction. I lead her to the themes that she likes (people and nature) and then I talk to her about it in a seductive way, creating a bubble where she's imagining wonderful things. I take things to the brink of something sexual and then leave her hanging a bit with silence, strong eye contact and a slight smile, until it gets too much and she asks me something.
- I'm not afraid to talk about myself, but I do it always with an emotional angle that she can relate to. I present to her only the parts of myself that I want to connect with her on (sex, body, emotions, pleasure) and cut out any threads about things I don't want to relate on (job, money, status).
- Don't wear out the welcome. Once you applied pressure, turned up the tension, and released it, it's time to qualify her, get the number, and leave her wanting more.

NOT ONCE am I interested in showing status, money, or anything else except the ability to connect with her emotions, lead her through a wonderful interaction, and a vague interest in her as a 'fun girl'. With strong eye contact and unshakeable calmness she can feel that I know what I'm doing, that she's along for my ride, which is exactly how it is with me.

Hope this helps! Like I said, I'm not some kind of expert, but I think examples are always good to learn from.

Dude thanks for taking the time out of your day to make such an insightful post. This is more in depth explanation instructions I need for learning how to interact with. This is golden part of the forum that 99 percent of internet lacks. And I dont mean that as an exaggeration. If I got in reddit in YouTube I would have gotten a long a d tired post about how I am not treating women like they are human. Ugh. The reason behind you question really intrigues me.

Do you have Google hangouts? I'd love to talk to you more about this particular topic

 

[Will_V]

Dude thanks for taking the time out of your day to make such an insightful post. This is more in depth explanation instructions I need for learning how to interact with. This is golden part of the forum that 99 percent of internet lacks. And I dont mean that as an exaggeration. If I got in reddit in YouTube I would have gotten a long a d tired post about how I am not treating women like they are human. Ugh. The reason behind you question really intrigues me.

Do you have Google hangouts? I'd love to talk to you more about this particular topic

Very glad to help! Yes examples are worth 1000 reddit posts, as they say.

I don't really do much hangouts, I only decided to join here because I've gotten tons of value from Chase's articles over the years (and some of the other guys too, Alek Rolstad especially lays out a lot of good examples of seductive conversations you can probably learn loads from).

If you want to ask me something, let's do it here so other people can contribute too or learn from it.

 

[themino]

Do you have a shortcut to getting some success now? I've been trying for a while now. And I didn't always have this mindset. Even when my fundamentals were on point it wouldn't matter unless I had enough game. There's gotta be something you noticed as an advanced guy that most beginners struggle with.

And that's where the problem lies. You cant really use yourself as an example. I remember Hector telling me of picking chicks up in regular clothes like tank tops and shorts. But he has excellent game.

I dont have that. I've been trying to get game. Yeah I get offering value but that's what I've been trying to work on.

Give me an example where do you approach women and what do you say to them?

nooo... you can’t game without fundamentals. you’d do better with fundamentals and no game than with game”technical knowledge” and no fundamentals. fundamentals are everything but what you say. the nonverbals. most of communication is nonverbal

 

[Rain]

nooo... you can’t game without fundamentals. you’d do better with fundamentals and no game than with game”technical knowledge” and no fundamentals. fundamentals are everything but what you say. the nonverbals. most of communication is nonverbal

It is possible to be good at fundamentals and "basic" at game, or "basic" fundamentals and good at game. But best to max both.

Chase wrote

Game + fundamentals = results.

It's possible to do exclusively one and be shit in the rest. Like, you could be super muscular guy who's also very rich and dresses really well and has an incredible haircut, great body language, facial expressions, walk, etc. (through-the-roof on fundamentals) but has no idea how to talk to girls (game), and still get pretty good results so long as you had some basic game down (i.e., ability to ask women out, basic flirting, ability to lead a woman through a progression of steps that ends with your penis in her vagina).

Likewise, there are men out there with mostly terrible fundamentals - no muscles, short, ugly - but who nevertheless have remarkable game, and they get equivalent results. First guy I knew with game was a short, fat, balding Puerto Rican salesman with incredible frame control, presence, and humor who dated blonde bombshells of equal looks to the ones in King Bert's photos (well, minus the ripped abs / thighs. If you want to date gym bunnies with any consistency you need to be a gym rat yourself).

Focusing on just one aspect of one side of the equation to the exclusion of all else never works. e.g., the guy who does nothing but go to the gym and lift (i.e., works on just one single fundamental), and improves himself in no other way, dates land whales. The guy who goes out and does 5000 approaches and works on nothing but openers (i.e., works on just one single aspect of game) also does terrible and sleeps with only a handful of girls, none of them cute. The key is improvement across multiple dimensions - both fundamentals (one of which is muscles) and game.

 

[Shake&Bake]

Very glad to help! Yes examples are worth 1000 reddit posts, as they say.

I don't really do much hangouts, I only decided to join here because I've gotten tons of value from Chase's articles over the years (and some of the other guys too, Alek Rolstad especially lays out a lot of good examples of seductive conversations you can probably learn loads from).

If you want to ask me something, let's do it here so other people can contribute too or learn from it.

Ok. So mostly the approach most guys seem to gravitate to that get them success is basically getting the women to talk more about herself? Or is it you have to constantly keep up the game of having her invest more?

That's the biggest problem I saw when I compared it to my approaches. Which is probably the reason I got so much less success over the years. One realization I'm not 100 percent on is that I think I found out that women usually dont fall for guys that like them from the get go unless they already like you from afar. It seemed that girls only fell for guys who seemingly developed an attraction for them the exact same time they did.

But when I used to approach super heavily when I first started I thought opening direct was the way to go. But man did that almost never ever work for me. The girl would be flattered but didnt like me enough to go forward with me.

So basically your style is basically focused on deep diving early and keeping interest at a minimum?

 

[Will_V]

Ok. So mostly the approach most guys seem to gravitate to that get them success is basically getting the women to talk more about herself? Or is it you have to constantly keep up the game of having her invest more?

That's the biggest problem I saw when I compared it to my approaches. Which is probably the reason I got so much less success over the years. One realization I'm not 100 percent on is that I think I found out that women usually dont fall for guys that like them from the get go unless they already like you from afar. It seemed that girls only fell for guys who seemingly developed an attraction for them the exact same time they did.

But when I used to approach super heavily when I first started I thought opening direct was the way to go. But man did that almost never ever work for me. The girl would be flattered but didnt like me enough to go forward with me.

So basically your style is basically focused on deep diving early and keeping interest at a minimum?

It's hard to describe without showing. But the way I see it, my game is about offering her something she wants.
I am only truly disinterested if the thread is boring. But when I am talking meditation, nature, dancing, sometimes sex, my eye contact is strong, my voice is 'creamy' a bit deep and slow and super chill, and she feels my focus on her and it creates sexual tension.
My goal is to open her mind (find out what she likes) connect to it (feed it back in my own words), and show her a little piece of paradise (take it further and make it more sensual).
At the end of course she knows I'm interested, but instead of putting her on a pedestal, I put the potential experience she could have with me on a pedestal. I will not compliment her or verbally indicate my intentions with her beyond the opener and a bit of a qualifier at the end. The rest of the time I am 'not yet sure' about her, pressuring her to qualify herself (increasing tension) and relating to her (decreasing tension).
Of course this is my ideal conversation which I have had a few times, but often like everyone I fuck up something, sometimes save it and sometimes not. But it gives me a road map that fits my personality and the way I will present myself on dates and in bed.

What might help you is to write out the ideal conversation you'd like to have and then plug any holes in it with appropriate game.

Remember you are the leader, your job is to steer the conversation toward topics that bridge the gap between you and her. You must have a basic plan or you'll end up rambling or she'll steer it off a cliff.

 

[Fuck This]

I think it all depends on how easy or heard is it for people to create new friendships.

Attraction from women is just an elevated response to Charisma

When you learn to relate to people in a manner where they feel drawn to your energy, it becomes easier to guide that attraction in a Sexual direction.

 

[Shake&Bake]

It's hard to describe without showing. But the way I see it, my game is about offering her something she wants.
I am only truly disinterested if the thread is boring. But when I am talking meditation, nature, dancing, sometimes sex, my eye contact is strong, my voice is 'creamy' a bit deep and slow and super chill, and she feels my focus on her and it creates sexual tension.
My goal is to open her mind (find out what she likes) connect to it (feed it back in my own words), and show her a little piece of paradise (take it further and make it more sensual).
At the end of course she knows I'm interested, but instead of putting her on a pedestal, I put the potential experience she could have with me on a pedestal. I will not compliment her or verbally indicate my intentions with her beyond the opener and a bit of a qualifier at the end. The rest of the time I am 'not yet sure' about her, pressuring her to qualify herself (increasing tension) and relating to her (decreasing tension).
Of course this is my ideal conversation which I have had a few times, but often like everyone I fuck up something, sometimes save it and sometimes not. But it gives me a road map that fits my personality and the way I will present myself on dates and in bed.

What might help you is to write out the ideal conversation you'd like to have and then plug any holes in it with appropriate game.

Remember you are the leader, your job is to steer the conversation toward topics that bridge the gap between you and her. You must have a basic plan or you'll end up rambling or she'll steer it off a cliff.

Ok I gotcha. Great explanation. So if were to put in simple terms the gameplan you implement is something like this:

Open indirect, say hi, compliment on the opener(but just once), ask her something about herself, get her to answer something in a way that she doesn't usually answer, relate her feelings back to her, look bored, door more deep dive, give a little about yourself, say something a out yourself that makes you look adventurous, then qualify her and ask for the number?

I like your way of thinking. I usually didnt have a good gameplan when I was talking to women. So I never got where I wanted to go.

I'm suprised you didnt mention flirting in your example. Or maybe you were flirting but I didnt notice. Or maybe I'm just bad at flirting. But I thought that was nessecary for approaches to work but maybe that's not the case.

Also I did alot of direct things like state my intentions or I would say I want to take you out. Maybe that is flawed way of doing it. So you can also approach this way on girls you are cold approaching on the street as well?

 

[DonGately]

If there is any cliche advice I hate more than anything behind just be yourself and all you need is confidence it's this one. It might have a decent foundation but I feel it's greatly exaggerated.

Well, I have to tell you that you're wrong. You posted earlier about girls asking about jobs or whatever - I used to do FX research/sales for middle-market public companies. Do you think I wasted one second telling NYC girls exactly what I did? They wouldn't understand it anyway!
One girl I did tell thought I worked at like a Thomas Cook currency kiosk like a bank teller, it was hilarious. "Like...you exchange cash for other cash?"

People here, with good game, are legit trying to help you and you hate their advice. I think I see the problem now.

 

[Will_V]

Ok I gotcha. Great explanation. So if were to put in simple terms the gameplan you implement is something like this:

Open indirect, say hi, compliment on the opener(but just once), ask her something about herself, get her to answer something in a way that she doesn't usually answer, relate her feelings back to her, look bored, door more deep dive, give a little about yourself, say something a out yourself that makes you look adventurous, then qualify her and ask for the number?

I like your way of thinking. I usually didnt have a good gameplan when I was talking to women. So I never got where I wanted to go.

I'm suprised you didnt mention flirting in your example. Or maybe you were flirting but I didnt notice. Or maybe I'm just bad at flirting. But I thought that was nessecary for approaches to work but maybe that's not the case.

Also I did alot of direct things like state my intentions or I would say I want to take you out. Maybe that is flawed way of doing it. So you can also approach this way on girls you are cold approaching on the street as well?

I think you need to read my posts again.
'Looking bored' is ONLY what I do when she says something impressive, like 'I'm an architect', so it doesn't become a case of me competing with her status. But it is subtle not insulting and I am still pushing forward.

I can't believe you asked me if I flirt. Its basically one big flirt from front to back. Like I said I use strong eye contact when talking about sensual things like nature, meditation etc. Probably way more than most guys ever do. If you're standing three feet from a girl, looking deep in her eyes with a slight smile and slightly dilated eyes, and telling her with a deep slow voice that meditating is possible anywhere, you better believe it's flirting.

Flirting is not what you say, it's your fundamentals (eye contact, voice, posture, bodily distance) while you are saying it. You could talk about anything vaguely pleasurable (daydreaming, eating, meditating, being surrounded by nature) and make it sexual just with a change in your voice. Remember that any interaction with a woman who's not your mom or sister is implicitly sexual, in that you might end up fucking her and in the back of her mind she knows this possibility. So you don't have to go overboard and get explicit. Strong eye contact is the basis, slow voice etc builds on it.

Think of some food or drink you really like. Now imagine you were a hostage somewhere and the only way you could escape was to get in front of a woman and communicate to her 'I want to fuck you' but you could not explicitly refer to sex or any sexual acts whatsoever. All you could talk about was your favorite food or drink, and use your fundamentals to help you get the message across.
How would you do it?