How important is 100% financial independence?

[Water]

I was having a conversation with a former wing / natural buddy of mine who said no quality girl would LTR a guy who isn’t 100% financially independent.

I asked a female friend of mine who is attractive and most would consider quality based on her personality and looks, and she said she would never date a guy who isn’t employed. I forget if she mentioned the specifics though.

I know guys and have heard of some guys who are unemployed drug addicts who are banging or in an LTR with an attractive quality girl, so it is technically possible.

I am over 30 years old, so perhaps as the guy is older, it’s more important the guy is employed and possibly also financially independent.

Or maybe it has to do with the girl being older?

I am being partially financially supported by family, which my friend said is not good enough to land a quality girl. I think he might have strong inaccurate beliefs, thoughts?

To specify, my goals are:
1. Laying above average to hot girls.
2. FB above average to hot girls.
3. LTR above average to hot girls.

I think #3 is the one that my friend argues requires full financial independence.

1 and 2 it seems financial independence is less important, but would any girls see that as a deal breaker?

This is assuming the guy has his looks maxed out and has the skill set to seduce the girl properly and generate high attraction.

Simply having a good enough skill set to seduce the woman is sufficient enough to bang them for sure, FB them probably, and I would’ve thought being able to seduce and generate high attraction would be enough to LTR a physically attractive and quality girl even if you’re not 100% financially independent.

Or even more extreme, if you’re unemployed with a good skill set and able to seduce a girl, since love and attraction are emotionally and logical, an LTR should still be feasible even if you’re living off welfare?

To the guys on this forum, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Water]

I thought being in the process of working towards career / monetary success and/or complete financial independence (and maybe having financial assistance from family or parents during this process) is acceptable if you’re passionate and have ambitions, a quality girl will still be willing to LTR you.

 

[KJ Francis]

Might be worth defining "financial independence". I think it it's usually meant to denote being free of an employer. Or maybe I am confusing it with "independently wealthy". Like do you mean being employed and able to pay your own rent and bills without any assistance beyond the employer? Or do you mean self employed and able to wake up any Monday and decide to take the day off without anyone's permission?

I am fully KJ on the LTR part, but I had a brief period of being visibly poor, in that I was sleeping on a futon in an office building and showering at the gym because it was a cheap lifestyle. I laid about 10 girls in this period, several of them in the office (not my working office - literally just a method of cheap rent).

Right before moving in there I was living in the cheapest room I could find in the city in a shared house. It was a place I suffered through bed bugs for a while. While living here, I laid an incredibly beautiful, high quality woman from the bus. She had a car, but commuted to the financial district from a straight shot outside downtown.

She was Swedish/Norwegian, taller than me, flawless skin from head to toe, and had previously almost moved in with a very rich investment banker. I moved in the office during the course of seeing her. She told me she loved me and would pay for my dinners on the rare occasions we went out somewhere.

My lay before that was a woman separating from a pro hockey player I saw several different times (and I do not have a pro hockey player's body), but that was just a fling, whereas the other woman cried when I left. The last time I saw her was in then office with blackout curtains over the window, $250/month rent.

So I look at it from the bastardized evolutionary biology perspective. Subconsciously, she was after my genes, not my resources to take care of the nest. Her emotions were such that she would have pursued the LTR if I'd wanted it, but if it had gone on for years, perhaps the logical brain would have prevailed. Leo from the Titanic can't pay for private school.

 

[Water]

Oh, I forgot to define it.

When I am using the term 100% financially independent I simply mean the person is not receiving financial assistance from anybody else.

So all their living expenses are being paid by them alone. Rent, food, gas, everything they buy is with their own money.

 

[topcat]

Oh, I forgot to define it.

When I am using the term 100% financially independent I simply mean the person is not receiving financial assistance from anybody else.

So all their living expenses are being paid by them alone. Rent, food, gas, everything they buy is with their own money.

How would your girl know you’re getting money from somebody else? just don’t tell her and voila - ‘financially independent’.

 

[Water]

How would your girl know you’re getting money from somebody else? just don’t tell her and voila - ‘financially independent’.

Someone gave me this advice too.

But I am curious if this is actually even necessary to have / or lie about?

I know if I lie about it and am not caught then can still land the girl. But…

Can you get an LTR with a quality / above average to hot girl while being unemployed or working but also receiving financial assistance?

I always thought this was not a requirement.

 

[Water]

Thoughts? @Skills You seem most aware of the climate of seduction.

Can a guy who is unemployed and is living off of parents or government welfare, or a guy who is working but is receiving financial assistance from family, can a guy in either category manage to seduce to lay and LTR a quality / hot girl?

The majority of girls, specifically.

And not a minority, as every category of guy can theoretically seduce hot girls, but it’s in the small minority if they have very unattractive lifestyles or habits.

Assuming the guy tells the truth so lying about his situation is out, at least for this post, to discern the importance of such things.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Hmm, this gets me thinking, why would it be considered bad to get financial assistant from anywhere? If anything you have found a low effort way for extra money without working, it even feels more powerful to me.

Someone gives you the money for some reason anyway. If it is work, it's because of a skill, if you are a hot girl, it's because of your looks, if it's from family, it's just because they love you.

I don't think that any of these reasons is not valid. It's good to have ways to make sure that you will have money and survive if anything happens to one of your sources of course.

But this is what you generally do with all income sources anyway by diversifying. And if you can really build an amazing life that fulfils you, by having people give you a bunch of money for one reason or another, why not?

 

[Water]

Hmm, this gets me thinking, why would it be considered bad to get financial assistant from anywhere? If anything you have found a low effort way for extra money without working, it even feels more powerful to me.

Someone gives you the money for some reason anyway. If it is work, it's because of a skill, if you are a hot girl, it's because of your looks, if it's from family, it's just because they love you.

I don't think that any of these reasons is not valid. It's good to have ways to make sure that you will have money and survive if anything happens to one of your sources of course.

But this is what you generally do with all income sources anyway by diversifying. And if you can really build an amazing life that fulfils you, by having people give you a bunch of money for one reason or another, why not?

I agree. I don’t have anything against receiving financial assistance.

But I am curious how that is viewed or if it is an obstacle / makes it harder or impossible to LTR a hot / quality girl.

According to a few people I’ve spoken to, any quality / hot girl would not get with a guy who is receiving any financial help.

I personally disagree with this and don’t believe it’s the case, but I want to verify with experienced guys on here which is true?

 

[OldGuy]

Depends on how long term the relationship is with her and how long the assistance will continue. Also, loans are not financial assistance for the long term.

 

[Rancorous]

I mean if you were an attractive woman wouldn't you the guy to be making good money? I sure would. And a plus if he drives a nice newer car and lives in a nice place. It paints pretty picture. A secure picture.

 

[gameboy]

I've gotten laid and got girlfriends while unemployed (well, actually one girlfriend, the other was more of a FB since she lived in a different country).

No problem there at all. As long as you're confident about it.

 

[gameboy]

According to a few people I’ve spoken to, any quality / hot girl would not get with a guy who is receiving any financial help.

Just another limiting belief

 

[Skills]

Thoughts? @Skills You seem most aware of the climate of seduction.

Can a guy who is unemployed and is living off of parents or government welfare, or a guy who is working but is receiving financial assistance from family, can a guy in either category manage to seduce to lay and LTR a quality / hot girl?

The majority of girls, specifically.

And not a minority, as every category of guy can theoretically seduce hot girls, but it’s in the small minority if they have very unattractive lifestyles or habits.

Assuming the guy tells the truth so lying about his situation is out, at least for this post, to discern the importance of such things.

Without lying unlikely... But anything possible after 3:lays... Seduction is not a logical process but an emotional one... Mystery was unemployed living st home laying strippers 10...

 

[TomInHo]

Attractive women marry trust fund babies that don't work all the time

Forget about the women, make money for you

 

[DonGately]

I mean if you were an attractive woman wouldn't you the guy to be making good money? I sure would. And a plus if he drives a nice newer car and lives in a nice place. It paints pretty picture. A secure picture.

1) All wealth effects are relative. I remember the only time a girl told me I was definitely 'rich,' I was like 'Whaaaa?' [This was years before I ever felt rich] But then I realized it's because she was in college so had no money and no income.

FTR, all studies point to our perceptions and feelings about wealth being relative, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is King, and all that. Nobody in the Hamptons would ever say I was rich, even if they thought I might be.

It's one of the reasons I dress in bespoke suits and shirts, wear Hermes ties, etc. The concept of 'money' or 'income' never has to be raised. Most guys just need one nice, tailored suit and shirt and they'd do much better at cold pickup - assuming they're comfortable wearing that.
Even when it's hot out, like now, I wear summer weight wool/linen and lighter dress shirts. I definitely get more attention than normal, I skip the ties though.

2) More girls are into nice/fast cars than you'd think, of all ages. I drive an imported mid-end 4-dr sedan with the sporty upgrade package, and females from 18-44 have commented on my car. You don't need a Porsche to impress these women.

 

[Rancorous]

1) All wealth effects are relative. I remember the only time a girl told me I was definitely 'rich,' I was like 'Whaaaa?' [This was years before I ever felt rich] But then I realized it's because she was in college so had no money and no income.

FTR, all studies point to our perceptions and feelings about wealth being relative, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is King, and all that. Nobody in the Hamptons would ever say I was rich, even if they thought I might be.

It's one of the reasons I dress in bespoke suits and shirts, wear Hermes ties, etc. The concept of 'money' or 'income' never has to be raised. Most guys just need one nice, tailored suit and shirt and they'd do much better at cold pickup - assuming they're comfortable wearing that.
Even when it's hot out, like now, I wear summer weight wool/linen and lighter dress shirts. I definitely get more attention than normal, I skip the ties though.

2) More girls are into nice/fast cars than you'd think, of all ages. I drive an imported mid-end 4-dr sedan with the sporty upgrade package, and females from 18-44 have commented on my car. You don't need a Porsche to impress these women.

It depends on who and what you're trying to attract.

The guys that drool over the 9's and 10's don't get why they can't get with them. It's your lifestyle and money. Have you ever seen a 9 or a 10 with guy making an average salary? I'm sure there are but no where near as much as a guy making a lot of money.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Quality girl is one of those amorphous terms that guys use that means whatever they want it to mean. Red pill and Blue pill guys use the term all the time - and you can tell they just haven't dated in the real world, they don't have female friends and acquaintances.

Let's say a girl is gorgeous and has her career going - A quality girl - if she seriously dates a relative bum - DJ, personal trainer, artist, content creator, etc - she loses her " quality" status. Something must be wrong with her.

In the real world - attractive, college educated, professional women date charming losers all the time, and have babies with those guys.

Guys see this situation where "quality" gets redefined - girl isn't a "club slut"/IG thot, and the next move to protect their blue pill world view is to say

She didn't have a dad, parents divorced

Or

Feminism

Meanwhile Lady and the Tramp/Aladdin stories are common place.

Chicks not following social norms of the beta bucks side of hypergamy are the basically the basis of most female gossip....

 

[Rancorous]

Quality girl is one of those amorphous terms that guys use that means whatever they want it to mean. Red pill and Blue pill guys use the term all the time - and you can tell they just haven't dated in the real world, they don't have female friends and acquaintances.

Let's say a girl is gorgeous and has her career going - A quality girl - if she seriously dates a relative bum - DJ, personal trainer, artist, content creator, etc - she loses her " quality" status. Something must be wrong with her.

In the real world - attractive, college educated, professional women date charming losers all the time, and have babies with those guys.

Guys see this situation where "quality" gets redefined - girl isn't a "club slut"/IG thot, and the next move to protect their blue pill world view is to say

She didn't have a dad, parents divorced

Or

Feminism

Meanwhile Lady and the Tramp/Aladdin stories are common place.

Chicks not following social norms of the beta bucks side of hypergamy are the basically the basis of most female gossip....

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But I think it helps increase your long term attractiveness. They want stability and support when raising a family and kids.

 

[Skills]

It depends on who and what you're trying to attract.

The guys that drool over the 9's and 10's don't get why they can't get with them. It's your lifestyle and money. Have you ever seen a 9 or a 10 with guy making an average salary? I'm sure there are but no where near as much as a guy making a lot of money.

this is kj, by the way did you know that a lot of 9 and 10s are in high school college?? Most college dudes are broke... A lot of them are also working shit jobs, in restaurants, bars, hostesses....

Brah! jesus!

you can not drive your rolls royce inside a club at point of the meet, you can not bring your 401 k inside the club, you can not bring your mansion inside the club..... She will go by honest signals... this is basic seduction 101