It is so OVER! (London subreddit thread with white Knight interfering in daygame approach)

[average_daygamer]

I am quite fed up with this sort of thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/london/s/YXjb0N12bG

London has always felt like a safe space where I can go approach anonymously without this kind of thing compared to these small towns where approaching makes you stick out like a sore thumb which makes local tough makes feel like they should challenge you.

I am seconds away from hitting one of these whiteknights so hard to the chin to make them backflip! Like if anyone has seen the Ludacris "Get back" music video where he walks around town with those massive fake arms posturing to swing at anyone who challenges him.

This is a clear example of the societal brain washing that we are fighting against when we approach.

This is the reason I avoid nightgame. I am on a knife's edge is nightgame incase something like this happens. But daygame should be safe from this kind of thing.

Needless to say, daygame should be a salvation from this rubbish.

 

[topcat]

Mate as long as you have decent social skills and know to give women space, when it’s okay to close space and when to take a hint. You’ll be fine.

Dude was so poorly calibrated he invited the concern of bystanders.

 

[Tryst]

You're looking at this through an almost selfish frame, in which the right to cold approach is pedestalised above the responsibility to look out for your brother, and to make sure their lives aren't made worse. You can't look at PU as some above-and-apart ideal which derives value from itself, but as a tool which can both improve the world and worsen it.

Women are often made to feel uncomfortable my men, and a woman on the metro, especially, can be on edge. She has plenty of very negative reference experiences of uncomfortable guys making her feel bad, and it's easy to trigger those negative blueprints. If the guy was making her uncomfortable, he should have backed away, and it is was wrong of him not to.

I understand that mistakes are made, and sometimes we will make women uncomfortable when we approach - it's inevitable. But I think, also, we have an ethical responsibility to avoid this as far as possible, and think hard on what went wrong whenever it does happen. The bystander did the right thing, and I would have done the same. Be on the the lookout for guys who make girls who look uncomfortable, and maybe next time you'll offer support when a girl needs it. This sort of thinking and empathy will improve your pickup, but more importantly, it will make you into a better and more noble person.

 

[Aussiedude]

Honestly don't see the issue. The author isn't having a go at pickup, or cold approach. Just this lady was looking pretty uninterested/uncomfortable and the dude wouldn't let up.

Nobody on that reddit post is complaining about dudes approaching in general. Just a specific instance where weird guy isn't taking a hint.

I have a female friend who had a similar experience, where the dude was intensely looking at her and then began following her on the train. And a random lady pretended to be her friend and then the dude left.


Also cherry picking really hard here saying society is against cold approach when its not. If you go on Tiktok there's heaps of videos where women are complaining that men don't approach enough.

 

[MrVariety]

Hope your DHV-routine goes better next time

Mr Variety

 

[average_daygamer]

Mate as long as you have decent social skills and know to give women space, when it’s okay to close space and when to take a hint. You’ll be fine.

Dude was so poorly calibrated he invited the concern of bystanders.

But how soon are you meant to react though?

For all we know, it was seconds. Sometimes, you don't even get a chance to calculate.

For instance, English skinheads are a particular danger faced in nightgame and seem to have the confidence or arrogance to intervene.

A couple of years ago, I was in my small approaching city.

I had walked around all night and not done one approach. So I see a 2 set stood outside weatherspoon's (a common pub chain in the UK) and approach them.

It was only a few seconds into the interaction where a bald, bearded and BIG (BBB) English skinhead intervened and said "Oi, brev, wot R u doin'."

I explained that I was chatting to the young ladies and couldn't he see that and he said "you ain't doin' that brev, they're with me".

A brief confrontation ensured but I did not hit him because he was bigger than me, so I was forced into a humiliating retreat and missed out on the entire venue, because the security took his side.

So unless I took steroids and bulked up to 110kg or something outrageous (at the expense of longevity), I will never be able to stand my ground against such bullies and will always be anxious that one will interfere in an approach, particularly in nightgame, where they hang around outside, essentially resource guarding the females.

 

[topcat]

But how soon are you meant to react though?

For all we know, it was seconds. Sometimes, you don't even get a chance to calculate.

For instance, English skinheads are a particular danger faced in nightgame and seem to have the confidence or arrogance to intervene.

A couple of years ago, I was in my small approaching city.

I had walked around all night and not done one approach. So I see a 2 set stood outside weatherspoon's (a common pub chain in the UK) and approach them.

It was only a few seconds into the interaction where a bald, bearded and BIG (BBB) English skinhead intervened and said "Oi, brev, wot R u doin'."

I explained that I was chatting to the young ladies and couldn't he see that and he said "you ain't doin' that brev, they're with me".

A brief confrontation ensured but I did not hit him because he was bigger than me, so I was forced into a humiliating retreat and missed out on the entire venue, because the security took his side.

So unless I took steroids and bulked up to 110kg or something outrageous (at the expense of longevity), I will never be able to stand my ground against such bullies and will always be anxious that one will interfere in an approach, particularly in nightgame, where they hang around outside, essentially resource guarding the females.

react to what exactly? this stuff never happens if you make a socially calibrated approach.

You should be asking how to make socially calibrated approaches rather than railing off on people for protecting women from creeps..

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I was writing something way more poetic but then realised it is probably better to just stay with logic and facts:

You have women rejecting you harshly, and other men interfering and stopping your approaches treating you like a creep.

You don't understand how you are supposed to even meet women and improve when this is happening.

You put the blame on all these people who are mistreating you and depriving you of your right to freely live your life.

The verdict is this:

You have to realise that noone is out there with the intent to make your life more difficult.

You have to understand what makes them feel like treating you the way they do.

You have to work on expressing yourself so that women and people generally treat you the way you want to be treated.

If any of these steps you cannot do by yourself you look for help in people that can provide it.

The only prerequisite is that you have to accept that these steps as a goal are the intended ones and not go against them, it's only about finding ways to achieve them.

 

[James D]

@average_daygamer

Here's something you can start paying attention to when you approach women:

1. How much of her body is facing you and how closed off her body is.
2. Whether she actively physically distances herself from you.

Uninterested women will turn their bodies away from you and will actively distance themselves from you.

They will literally walk away from you. Sometimes it's one small step at a time. Sometimes it's several steps.

If you approach her when she's stationary and it doesn't make sense for her to walk away (for example, she was already seated in a cafe and you walked over), then notice how closed off her body is and how she's actively turning her body to face away from you.

It's subtle but unmistakable. Yet most men fail to take note.

There are other signs too. How she looks back at her phone. How she glances away. How she obviously is trying to be polite but is hoping you'll leave.

Learn these signs and adjust.

Sometimes she'll start out with these signs out of discomfort but then she warms up to you and opens up.

But if you're in an interaction for over 1-2 minutes and these signs are stil there—or worse, growing—then you exit.

If you approach and the signs are really strong (i.e. she starts making several steps away or turns her body abruptly to face away from you) then consider exiting the interaction immediately.

A socially calibrated person is always subconsciously monitoring how others are reacting to them and make micro adjustments.

A great example is Russell Brand.

There are YouTube videos of him making bold moves on women on the shows he's on or when getting interviewed.

You can see he's always monitoring their reactions before pouncing. Depending how she responds, he pushes forward or retreats.

This is social calibration.

 

[average_daygamer]

I do all that already but if you take more than 2-3 seconds to adjust, they go crazy.

 

[James D]

but if you take more than 2-3 seconds to adjust, they go crazy.

Who's "they"?

The girls you approach?

 

[Will_V]

Yeah this looks like a great example of what not to do during an approach. From what I read there she's pulling away from him and clearly not interested, and he follows her onto the train, a place where she can't easily move away from him if she isn't interested in his company. That's a huge mis-calibration. Never follow girls anywhere unless they are clearly wanting you to stay, and even then you need to use a bit of frame control to make it clear you're not following her around.

Anytime you approach girls in situations where she cannot easily just keep walking, such as sitting on a bench or in the park, you have to be a bit more chill and friendly and ready to respond quickly to signals. Just because you're a dude doesn't mean you have the right to wander up into a girls space and stay there however long you like.

@average_daygamer don't get caught up in internet stories. You don't know what the dude was saying to her, maybe he was asking her to show him her titties and being a total weirdo. Maybe this guy telling the story is talking crap. Who cares. The important thing is what are you doing, and what are you experiencing. Focus on improving that.

 

[Skills]

I stop reading after "subreditt", then i saw the post again being bumped and stop reading after whitenight, then i got curious why is this post so active then saw the author.... Mr. cope himself...

Another cope post.... yawn....

The new irt.... version 2.0

 

[Chase]

@average_daygamer,

C'mon, dude. Don't be dumb.

The dude in that Reddit post was not a "day gamer." He was an awkward creep.

The "white knight" didn't even do anything. All he did was sit there awkwardly while this weirdo pestered the chick, then flashed her a sympathetic message on his phone after it was all over. Dude needs to read this article:

Save a Girl from a Creepy Guy (And Really Win Her Heart)

You see a really cute girl in a bar/club, on the bus, or even on the street. There’s some really greasy guy all over her, and you can tell she’s really uncomfortable and wants nothing to do with him. “I’m a good guy. If only I could go over her and have her meet a guy who’s actually quality”...

www.girlschase.com

As I stated previously, the bouncer who intervened in your nightclub approaches was in the right. He was a lot nicer with you than I would've been in his shoes. If I was that bouncer, and I saw you make a second approach like that, you'd have been out of my club.

Here's what I have noticed about you:

1. You don't ask what you're doing wrong.
2. You don't look for ways to improve your social acumen.
3. You don't try to figure out where your blind spots are that are causing these incidents.

Instead you just vent emotionally and expect the whole world to accommodate you.

That won't get you anywhere with women. It won't get you anywhere with other men. And you won't be long for this forum doing it.

STICKIED: Board Etiquette

Quick announcement, fellas -- It's come to my attention that in the past few months that I haven't been on here as much, there's been a rise in pessimism / psychic vampirism going on here. Scanning back through some of the more recent posts, I'm seeing some of this, and it does not make me...

www.skilledseducer.com

You need to read this article:

Creep/Trust Spectrum and the NUT Model

Why do girls trust some men yet feel uncomfortable with others? The answer lies in NUT: a way of comprehending how creepy or trustworthy someone will be. Recently, I’ve done a lot of study of people’s experiences with stalkers, murderers, rapists (real rapists… you know, the gunpoint /...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[MrVariety]

@average_daygamer it's astonishing that you've been able to keep doing this for so long with such meager success. It makes me wonder what makes you keep going.

It seems like this forum is showering you with advice -- And there's a ton of resources out there for pick up I'm sure you have read. But then I read the other thread about the bouncer that kicked you out ... you decide to do things like, as a 35 year old guy with no sexual success, go to night clubs and try bold stuff going up to two hot 18-year old blondes and asking BOTH of them for their number as the opener.

Who does that sort of thing? Have you ever seen someone do that? This is like trying to mimic some amazing backflip BMX stunt when you can't even ride a bike. You're only going to get hurt. Here's a thought: maybe you've stagnated because you're going out every day trying to bench 100 kg, failing every time, instead of starting with the bar, and working your way up.

You're constantly talking about "the hot girls..." If your social skills are lacking... why are you so concerned with them? If you have spaghetti arms, don't concern yourself with the 100 kg bench. If you can't ride a bike, don't concern yourself with the 360 backflip stunt you saw on youtube.

What's really astonishing is that you've kept this up for so long -- while still having a negative attitude. How is it even possible to endure constant rejection, have a negative attitude and yet be stubborn as a bull?

From the contents of your posts (like this one) it seems like you are in the wavelength of complaining and focusing on negative things. I would say your negative attitude is probably your number one block to success. It's possible to change it if you want. Either way I hope you can find a way to empty your cup (your mental framework is not working for you, based on the results you get) assume everything you know is wrong and let some of the ideas presented to you on this forum actually get a hold on you.

Mr Variety

 

[average_daygamer]

@average_daygamer it's astonishing that you've been able to keep doing this for so long with such meager success. It makes me wonder what makes you keep going.

It seems like this forum is showering you with advice -- And there's a ton of resources out there for pick up I'm sure you have read. But then I read the other thread about the bouncer that kicked you out ... you decide to do things like, as a 35 year old guy with no sexual success, go to night clubs and try bold stuff going up to two hot 18-year old blondes and asking BOTH of them for their number as the opener.

Who does that sort of thing? Have you ever seen someone do that? This is like trying to mimic some amazing backflip BMX stunt when you can't even ride a bike. You're only going to get hurt. Here's a thought: maybe you've stagnated because you're going out every day trying to bench 100 kg, failing every time, instead of starting with the bar, and working your way up.

You're constantly talking about "the hot girls..." If your social skills are lacking... why are you so concerned with them? If you have spaghetti arms, don't concern yourself with the 100 kg bench. If you can't ride a bike, don't concern yourself with the 360 backflip stunt you saw on youtube.

What's really astonishing is that you've kept this up for so long -- while still having a negative attitude. How is it even possible to endure constant rejection, have a negative attitude and yet be stubborn as a bull?

From the contents of your posts (like this one) it seems like you are in the wavelength of complaining and focusing on negative things. I would say your negative attitude is probably your number one block to success. It's possible to change it if you want. Either way I hope you can find a way to empty your cup (your mental framework is not working for you, based on the results you get) assume everything you know is wrong and let some of the ideas presented to you on this forum actually get a hold on you.

Mr Variety

The reason I try bold stuff is because I have consumed years worth of content telling me that bold=good. So it's ingrained. Also, the concept that in the club you are generally allowed to approach and the first few sets are sacrificial.

What keeps me going is that this is the only way. I have paid for play a few times but it is increasingly tricky to find attractive 20 some things. And don't get me wrong, I shouldn't have to hand money over. So if I really want to get laid with a young pretty girl, cold approach is the only way. Don't say apps, because a 20 year old girl is unlikely to have her age filter set as high as my age.

I don't see attitude as being a block. I see this process as sickeningly frustrating. Once in a blue moon, I get a phone number where the girl doesn't even so much as reply.

And I have to go through so many cringy rejections and downright awkward situations to get there. It all gets too much.

I do also have a hard time learning and retaining information. You say to assume everything I've learnt is wrong, but in the heat of the moment, when I have to run in front of a hot girl, how does that translate into action?

 

[average_daygamer]

@average_daygamer,

C'mon, dude. Don't be dumb.

The dude in that Reddit post was not a "day gamer." He was an awkward creep.

The "white knight" didn't even do anything. All he did was sit there awkwardly while this weirdo pestered the chick, then flashed her a sympathetic message on his phone after it was all over. Dude needs to read this article:

Save a Girl from a Creepy Guy (And Really Win Her Heart)

You see a really cute girl in a bar/club, on the bus, or even on the street. There’s some really greasy guy all over her, and you can tell she’s really uncomfortable and wants nothing to do with him. “I’m a good guy. If only I could go over her and have her meet a guy who’s actually quality”...

www.girlschase.com

As I stated previously, the bouncer who intervened in your nightclub approaches was in the right. He was a lot nicer with you than I would've been in his shoes. If I was that bouncer, and I saw you make a second approach like that, you'd have been out of my club.

Here's what I have noticed about you:

1. You don't ask what you're doing wrong.
2. You don't look for ways to improve your social acumen.
3. You don't try to figure out where your blind spots are that are causing these incidents.

Instead you just vent emotionally and expect the whole world to accommodate you.

That won't get you anywhere with women. It won't get you anywhere with other men. And you won't be long for this forum doing it.

STICKIED: Board Etiquette

Quick announcement, fellas -- It's come to my attention that in the past few months that I haven't been on here as much, there's been a rise in pessimism / psychic vampirism going on here. Scanning back through some of the more recent posts, I'm seeing some of this, and it does not make me...

www.skilledseducer.com

You need to read this article:

Creep/Trust Spectrum and the NUT Model

Why do girls trust some men yet feel uncomfortable with others? The answer lies in NUT: a way of comprehending how creepy or trustworthy someone will be. Recently, I’ve done a lot of study of people’s experiences with stalkers, murderers, rapists (real rapists… you know, the gunpoint /...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

This is quite counter intuitive, Chase. I have read the NUT article.

First off, Utility is seen as manipulation. You said it yourself in the article about the #me too allegation dramas. There will be cries of "unbalanced power dynamic" and all of that rubbish. Besides, I don't have anything to offer a 21 year old girl.

Secondly, the Need part is counter intuitive. How does this apply to day game? We need the girl, hence why we are approaching her. If you don't approach, you don't get laid, so you can't dial down the "Need" element. There is also an imbalance as you get older, the girl's smv will begin to get higher than your's.

The dude who was the perpetrator was probably beginning his day game journey. It could easily happen. We have all been there.

As for "saving" a girl from a creep and then trying to approach her, that would just turn you to the creep. She would be disappointed, I think.

As for your list, I am trying to do all those things, but the way you have these massive articles is not helping. I need to be able to translate that to the field in real life, not a huge article on a text screen.

 

[Adventurer]

@average_daygamer , have you tried activity groups on Meetup? You don't have to do really complicated approaches when you're just starting, and girls in those groups are more open to being approached. It's still cold approach but on easy mode. My first lay was from an activity group

Yes, it won't be a super young girl, it will most likely a late 20s/early 30s new in town or a pickme. But you have to start somewhere

Alternatively, if you're white, book a plane ticket to South East Asia or Latin America and install the apps. Or even better, if you already have a bit of travel experience, to India or an Eastern African English speaking country. Yes, it costs a bit of money. But it will be so much easier to get your first reference points than in London. If you're white, decently attractive and have a good profile on aps, you can get laid much more easily with young hot girls abroad

 

[MrVariety]

I do also have a hard time learning and retaining information. You say to assume everything I've learnt is wrong, but in the heat of the moment, when I have to run in front of a hot girl, how does that translate into action?

When I say that, I mean your overall strategy to success with women.

You've been banging your head against the wall for seven years.

Your attitude is completely wrong.

You're saying things like " Besides, I don't have anything to offer a 21 year old girl."
and "We need the girl, hence why we are approaching her. If you don't approach, you don't get laid, so you can't dial down the "Need" element."

You've been at this for 7 YEARS and you still haven't internalized a healthy mindset that we're introduced to in pick up kindergarten.

What kind of pick up material have you been digesting?

It sounds like you're in hell. And if you keep on doing the same thing, and you expect different results, well...

"I don't see attitude as being a block. I see this process as sickeningly frustrating. Once in a blue moon, I get a phone number where the girl doesn't even so much as reply."

Do you not see the irony of the strings of sentences you weaved together right there?

Mr Variety

 

[Aussiedude]

When I say that, I mean your overall strategy to success with women.

You've been banging your head against the wall for seven years.

Your attitude is completely wrong.

You're saying things like " Besides, I don't have anything to offer a 21 year old girl."
and "We need the girl, hence why we are approaching her. If you don't approach, you don't get laid, so you can't dial down the "Need" element."

You've been at this for 7 YEARS and you still haven't internalized a healthy mindset that we're introduced to in pick up kindergarten.

What kind of pick up material have you been digesting?

It sounds like you're in hell. And if you keep on doing the same thing, and you expect different results, well...

"I don't see attitude as being a block. I see this process as sickeningly frustrating. Once in a blue moon, I get a phone number where the girl doesn't even so much as reply."

Do you not see the irony of the strings of sentences you weaved together right there?

Mr Variety

Wait... 7 years? Are you serious. That can't be.