Journal

[bobbyb112]

This happened on a long weekend. On the first night we went to a nightclub. There were some girls sitting at a couch with a bowl of ice and drinks they had bought. One of the girls was sort of dancing in front of it and I introduced myself and they offered a drink and to sit down. I sat down and drank some. They had accents, and found out they were from California and Thailand. We talked and drank more. I escalated by getting closer and getting more incidental contact with the one who was right next to me.

She was also the most attractive one, but I didn’t give only her attention right away. We talked and got closer. At one point she asked how old I was and I said something outrageous like 70, and she asked again. I said 25 and she said “no really.” We went back and forth like this for a little bit. She was asking how old I was and me saying 25, then teasing like “no, how old do you think I am?” and being close and having her guess.

This was fine at first, but we kind of got stuck on it. I don’t know why she wouldn’t believe that that was my age, and it got kind of annoying to keep answering it. We were close and touching and teasing. She tried to get me to take more sips of the drink, probably because they paid for it so you might as well drink it. But also maybe because they want to get me drunk? Or maybe it’s just a social “hey, drink and be merry.”

Anyway, at one point she got up to dance in front of the table and took my hand to go. She danced in front of me and had the other girl go behind me. The third girl was taking a video or picture on her phone. They also took pictures before this, when sitting on the couch.

Earlier I found out they owned a consignment shop of some sort. Maybe getting products from Asia and selling them here. Anyway, the most attractive one who I sat next too was who I vibed with. One dressed sort of like an Asian tomboy, and she liked hugged the second and said like “she’s my boyfriend.” It was very playful, and they had Asian accents, so it was hard to understand what they were saying besides the loud and noise.

Anyway, when we got up to “dance,” I decided it was time to try to pull or move on. I had also found out they were in NY for a week or weekend or so, and I told them I was too. I said “there’s this sweet wall hanging in the place I’m staying of Egyptian hieroglyphics, want to see it?” She slowly pointed to the couch and said “that’s my coat.”

I grabbed we coat and was started walking towards the elevator, down to the entrance to the street. Right after I asked, I tried to pull up lyft to get a ride, but I was not prepared and it took a while to figure it out. When we got down to the street level and opened the door but the lyft wasn’t there so we stepped back in.
I said something like “yeah the wall hanging thing is wild, it’s like hieroglyphics. You’d have to be an Egyptologist to read it. She said something like “you’re too much.”

She said she had to go to the bathroom, so we went back up the elevator to the club. She went in the bathroom and I waited outside. A minute later I saw her friend go to the bathroom, then the third. I realized I botched this so considered starting to talk to people again. I turned to a girl in a red coat of some sort with blond hair and said “hey, I don’t think we’ve me. I’m bobbyb.” “I’m (name – don’t remember).” She had and accent and found out she was Polish.

I then sort of ended the conversation matter of factly saying something like “oh. Cool. Well, I’m going to circulate around some more, see you in a bit.” I wanted to see through the girl in the bathroom, just to see what would happen. One of her friends came out and I said playfully something like “where’s you friend.” She said “we’re leaving,” not angrily or anything but smiling. I started to walk away, and saw her other friend scurry with her towards the door. Too bad they had to leave, that club was fun, and if not sleep with me I’m sure they could’ve found someone else to find good company with. Anyway, I started walking around some more.

 

[bobbyb112]

I've approached a handful of girls on the street lately. I've had a few that walk by or almost by, and then stop to talk. But this feels weird, because then you are turned, and she is stopped turning back at you.

One solution might be to get right in front of her. What I'm wondering is when a girl is walking towards you, how far away do you start talking? Is there a good way to "pre-open" her when she is walking towards you?

I find that when she is walking towards you, you want to look to see if she is attractive. Then she sees you looking, so you lose a little swag factor. One solution is to focus more on looking up and ahead, and using your peripheral vision. I am working on doing this, using the peripheral vision. But, do you then not see if she's attractive before approaching?

How far away or close do you need to be for her to have time to stop? Is it just when you get close enough so you can talk (i.e. don't overthink it)?

 

[bobbyb112]

I've been approaching girls a few a day, like 2 or 3 a few times a week for the last few months or so.
There was one girl where I walked down into the subway. I went to the far end of the platform and she was sitting on one side of a bench. I said down next to her. I took out my phone and started playing with for a little, looking and reading.
After a minute or so, I turned her way and said "going anywhere exciting?" "Just home. You?" We talked for a bit. She re-engaged the conversation a few times. I used what I call my "mysterious" voice. She seemed to like this/my vibe/me, and she kept the conversation going a few times. When the train came, we were talking.
When we got on, I motioned for her to sit next to me (luckily the seat was open). We talked some more. She showed me a ring she had that looked like a hand. I patted her leg a few times to punctuate a point (sounds weird saying it like that, but I'm just saying that I got some touch going, in addition to the ring thing).
When it got close to her stop, she told me. I said okay. She got off.
What worked here? I think the voice tone. It seemed to work. What I really want to work on, though, is the transition between opener and hook point. For example, in this one she hooked pretty soon. But you can't rely on that. She also engaged a few times, to what can I attribute that? Not sure. What was good was being chill. Sometimes the best advice is to be chill. Laid back. Let her invest.
There was another one where I went into the subway, similarly sat on the other side of a bench to a girl, and talked with her a while. Found out some about her. These seated conversations seem to be a bit easier, because you don't have to be loud, and if the subway is coming, then she has some time to kill. In this one, I asked "going anywhere exciting?" "Home. You?" Is this a hook? We kept talking for a bit.
On street stops, a typical one goes like "hey, real quick. I saw you walking there and I thought you looked cute and wanted to say hi. I'm BobbyB" "Oh, thank you" Now what? The answer is probably tease her, or make observations. I've seen other places that you don't want to ask too many questions until she hooks, because then it seems like you are too interested, or like an interrogation somehow. They say to "observation stack" until she contributes to a conversation, or hooks, by asking a question.
So that is what I want to work on right now. Stacking the observations after the open until she hooks. Along with the first 10 seconds or so, there is also pre-opening, which I would love to do on a street approach if possible, but I've seen elsewhere to not even worry about it if you don't have a whole bunch of approaches yet. Still something to keep in mind.
For the "approaches" in the subway, part of what is good is she sees you sit down in her periphery, so that is like your pre-open. It also follows Chase's article on approaching girls sitting down, where you go and sit down, then chill out for a second and maybe play with your phone, then open her. Plus if you have to go into the subway anyway, then it's easy and convenient.
Another approach on the street was interesting. I stopped her walking towards me on a narrower street. I delivered the opener and then held her hand. She was eastern European or Russian, and I remember Chase saying it is more common over there to do the hand clasp, or keep holding your hand, in his article on the hand clasp.
I also get some "I'm going to something" on the approach sometimes. This is just a symptom of not having the right vibe and commanding attention. I.e. everyone is going somewhere, you just have to command more of that attention, or captivate on the approach to get her to stop a second.
How do you do this? Eye contact is another thing I want to use more consciously. I find that when I'm just walking around, I tend to look around more. But when I have to approach girls, I tend to look straight ahead so I can see if they are cute in my periphery. Is there a best way to do this? Eye contact is one I think can use some work.
Also smiling more. Or making eye contact, and smiling at the same time. I've done some approaches where you get the "what are you doing look". Sometimes they've warmed up and smiled when I smile. Other times I've been smiling, not a big goofy smile but a smaller one, and they've smiled on the approach too. So this is something to do more consciously.
From a learning skill perspective, I remembered something that I have used in other areas. That is to try to get 1 perfect rep. For example, one perfect approach, or one perfect seduction. You only need to get one. The thing is, when you start to go for this, even if you get one, you see how you could have done it better. In the quest for that perfect one rep, you realize that it is pretty much impossible to have an absolutely perfect rep. But, the pursuit of it is the noble quest, and hopefully you get farther along along the way.
It's like a baseball pitcher making the perfect pitch. Will he ever get the single most perfect pitch? No, because there's not such thing. But you can get closer and closer, and maybe even innovate to bring the real of human knowledge and experience closer to that perfection.
For practical purposes, it is motivating for me to go out thinking "I only need one", that can be, girl to go home with you. And in the process, you may even get more. I don't think it is physically possible for you to be in two girls at once, so you really one need one. At a time. Anyway, you see the point.
Voice tone is one that I want to get down well, and make sure is good. At work today, I was using my good voice tone, and a girl started fixing her hair a lot. Not sure if this correlates, but it might. Worth testing more.
Also is thinking of things to say. I tend to want to make jokes, to think of jokes. Not bad, but you don't want to be the entertainer. You want to be the seductive guy. I've tried to make jokes, or think of jokes based on what girls have said. This is often my go-to. Instead, you want to be perhaps mysterious or seductive.
Having less of a filter can be good. How can I be more one with the seduction? That is the question.

 

[bobbyb112]

I approached one girl today. She was walking on the sidewalk, with her head down and looking at a phone. I walked beside her and stood a little more than an arm's length away, and said "hey, real quick". She looked up and was startled. "Whoa, you startled me." "Are you single?" "No" "Oh. I see." She kept walking a second. "I thought you looked cute and wanted to say hi" "oh, thanks" She was going one way at an intersection and I was going another. "I'm going this way, have a good night." "Thanks".
I wonder how to approach a girl who is walking ahead of you. Can you tap her on the elbow and get her attention that way? I want something not too obvious. For this one, the phone was another thing that made it more startling, but ideally you could walk up next to her, she sees you in her peripheral vision, and then you say hi. Not sure how to do this the right way.
You probably also want to avoid girls who's faces are stuck to their phone. Whatever they are doing, they are engrossed in it, so it is hard to compete with that for attention. Look for girls who's attention is available, in particular. This can mean looking around. I feel like I'm parroting advice, but it makes sense and it feels right, and you see it when you are walking around. Experience trumps all.
I also want to try crinkling my nose, which Chase has said many times in different places. Another guy who seems like he does it is Tom Torero, on his youtube channel. That is, he looks like he scrunches up his nose and face sort of, and it gets a decent reaction. This seems to have a more playful, and cute feel, which you want as the lover.
Another to try is voice tone. Chase demonstrates an opener with a lot of voice tone in a podcast I listened to. This cadence and voice tone is engaging, and is one to try. Facial expressions and voice tones are some of the most important things for communication, so I want to try these.
The facial expression in particular also gives off a playful vibe, which I like. Why do I like playful? Because serious is no fun! Playful is fun. And girls are cute and silly. And fun if more fun than serious.

 

[bobbyb112]

I approached one girl earlier today. What I was working on was having good posture, so that it is calm and relaxed, and allows my stomach to breath. This is one I’ve used before, and it is just relaxed, lower key, and you can still breath, which is important. This is especially important to make sure is good after sitting all day at work.
I was also thinking about using the “what I noticed about you was…” and then “when I think of (blank) it makes me think of (blank)”.
She was walking in the opposite direction towards me on the sidewalk going towards back bay station. When she was maybe 10-20 feet away, I got in her way, smiled, and said “hey, real quick” She stopped and took out her headphones. “I saw you walking there and I thought you looked cute, I’m Cali.” “I’m Suzy. Wait, what did you say your name was?” “Cali. What was yours?” “Suzy” “Oh, nice. What I noticed about you was you were listening to your headphones, I thought you might be listening to a movie. Forget the movie theatre, you can just listen to it in your headphones.” “Haha, yeah, a music video.” “You were listening to a music video?” “Yeah” “Some Katy Perry?” “Haha yeah, just get lost in your music video” “Haha yeah. What you doing now?” “Just walking around” “No shopping?” “Haha, went by (shopping street name) earlier, going home now” “Ha, nice. Well, have a nice day”.
What worked was the second line, “what I noticed about you was…” because it gives you something to say next. She sort of hooked, maybe, asking me what my name was. But I figured I’d go with it, and sort of wanted to test it out. It seemed to work to continue the conversation in a light way. I sort of riffed off of her answer, but you can also do the “when I hear x it makes me think of y” to continue, until she hooks. This will be useful for other times.
The body language also seemed to help. I wasn’t very nervous, although still didn’t quite know what to say near the end. I didn’t feel that nervous. Just talking to someone, striking up a conversation.
Towards the end, I definitely ejected sooner than I could have. I could have asked to see her bracelet, or else she liked doing on her weekend, or maybe what she did. Just a bit of investment and compliance. She also said she was just walking around, and was going home then, she probably would have been open to an instant date of some sort. Grab coffee. Logistically, would it have been better to do it nearby, try to go near her place, or somehow go near mine (my place was a solid 20 minutes away)? For learning’s sake any, such as nearby, would be good. Maybe if you frame it right you can see if she wants to go to a place near wherever she lives since it is easier for her (I’m assuming she lived close by).
Smiling on the opener also seemed to help. Just to let her know you’re friendly.
For example, at some time today a guy with a girl stopped me to ask where the bus station was. When he approached, he didn’t really smile, and so I stopped farther away from him than if I was just talking to him. Whereas if he had smiled, I probably would have let me momentum carry myself closer to him. It’s the exact same for girls, where they want to make sure you’re normal and friendly. Same with anyone.
You can also use voice tone to engage and get attention. “Excuse me” can be said with voice tone to engage her more, as Chase demonstrates in the podcast interview. Use all your tools; smiling (how much is too much? Is it just a sexy smile?), voice tone, eye contact, etc.
Eye contact is another one I wanted to work on. Meeting her eyes as soon as possible and making it strong to make her feel my presence. That is the goal. For this approach, I think it was fine, although will pay more attention to it later.
The goal with the body posture is really to make it as natural as possible, so that I can just act without having to think about all this “game” stuff. That is, zero resistance seducing (someone needs to use that for the name of a seduction product…), where the goal is really not to think, and not be too gamey. That is what you are trying to release, going from beginner to intermediate, and then intermediate to advanced. Not over-gaming, but rather trying not to think about gaming. I think having the right relaxed and strong body posture can go a long way towards that. Breathing well.
Another thing is clothes/style. It’s summer and really hot out, so I’ve been wearing khaki shorts and a t-shirt for the day time. Is this good enough for a hot, sunny day, or would it be better to wear a stylish button down? Food for thought.
Another is hair. All I’ve done is have it medium length, and then push it up and to the side naturally. Ideally I’d get a “sexy” haircut from someone who knows how… how do you find a hair cutter like that? Definitely can help though.
Another might be a necklace of some kind. It seems like you can wear that during the day it is helpful. Maybe a bracelet as well, just to give more of a look.
Another is talking to more girls, particularly when there are people around. If find that I like talking to them when there are not many people around, but when there are, I have more trepidation. The thing to realize here is nobody else cares, most can’t hear whatever you guys are talking about, and most don’t want to hear anyway. Approach anyway.
More to work on is the nose crinkle as Chase says in his article. I have used that before, and seems like it can help well.

 

[bobbyb112]

Re: Magic Carpet Ride

I had a date tonight with a girl I cold approached the other day. We went to a bar nearby and talked. We sat at the bar in some seats, facing the bar. We talked about various things. I used Chase's 8 questions to talk about her. The answers were somewhat useful, although the vibe was not all the way there. We talked for a bit at the bar, got one drink, and then the check came. I paid it and she gave me money so we could split the bill. I said lets go walk outside. Leaving, she had to go to the bathroom so we both stopped in the bathroom. Coming out, we walked towards my place which was a block or so away. We had mentioned TV shows, so I said "hey let's go watch some Rick and Morty and call it a night". She said okay and we continued on to my house.

At the front door the lock wouldn't open, but we eventually got it. We went upstairs to my room and put on a youtube clip of Rick and Morty. We sat close on my mini-two-person seat, and watched. I put my arm around her, and started brushing her hair, and sort of feeling her ear. I turned her head towards me and kissed her. We went back to watching Rick and Morty, making some comments about it along the way. I did this a few more times, kissing her, although she still seemed a bit reserved about it. I had her put her legs on mine, and have the computer on her lap. We kept doing this, me kissing her and then looking back at the computer. I started stroking her legs, although this may or may not have had much of an effect. I kissed her some more, although she seemed pretty reserved about it. She said something like "nothing is going to happen tonight." I said "we don't have to do anything you don't want to do."

She said she had to go and started putting on her shoes. She said She had one shoe on, and I picked her up, and carried her to the bed, and put her on, and kept kissing her. I laid her down on the bed and she again said "I hope you didn't expect anything to happen" or something like that. I again said "we don't have to do anything you don't want to. She said "no, really, I have to go". She got up to the side of the bed, said "I'm sorry to have wasted your time" and started to get off. She started putting on her shoes again, and I took her hand, and started to move her around dancing. She said she had to go and "sorry I wasted your time" again. "I just wanted to watch Rick and Morty". She went to leave and said something like "can you turn the front door?" I said something like "not from the outside" "to unlock from the inside do you just turn it?" "oh, yes" "bye" "bye".

Some good things. First of all, I'm glad I could remember all the questions from the article. They seem like a good starting point for having good conversations. Once I got through the questions (not in a rigid sequence way, just asked them all), it felt like I at least touched on all the areas I wanted to about her. She answered them all, although I don't know if I made her feel the passion as much as you would want to. Anyway, she answered them all.

When we were going to leave, after a drink and paid the bill, we left and I "decisively" decided to walk around a bit. Being decisive is good. And leading. It was good that I invited her home, with a plausibly deniable thing, the TV show. It shows you that if you ask, she may just go with it, because hey, why not? It was close enough so that the walking was not too much. I didn't have to call an uber, which was good. That bar may be a good place to take girls. The downside of the bar was that there was music going. Sitting on the bar chairs as well, there was little to no physical touch. Just a few touches on the arm. I suppose her investment was really answering the questions. I tried to dig deeper on some of them, but a lot of it came back to work and school, and her working to pay for school. No time for hobbies or whatever. I told her about my passion for writing (I have a passion for writing, guys!). It was more something to talk about, I don't think she felt like it was too high value for her.

She was maybe 22 or 23, and was working a waitress to pay for school, taking semesters off here and there so she could pay for it. She didn't have any real hobbies, although she was in shape, even though she didn't work out. I asked her if she worked out, and she said people had told her it would be good, but that she didn't really have time with work to pay for school. Plus she was on her feet for the waitressing job for pretty much the whole shift, which seems like enough exercise to me. Anyway, she was in shape, but didn't work out or play sports or whatever.

She was studying biology and had worked in a biology lab. She was moderately passionate about it, and bio-technology. Maybe I should have dug into this more, but frankly technology is a minus 3 out of ten on the "seductive" topics list. Is that true? Anyway, she didn't seem to love it that much either, although she was somewhat smart in the math and science sense, and this direction seemed to appeal to her.

But I'm not a guidance counselor, and I didn't really hear much that she actually like doing. So it is. Anyway... it was good kissing her soon. I kissed her probably within 5 minutes or so. It felt natural because she was cuddling up next to me. So I turned her head towards me an moved her head with my hands to bring her towards me. One thing I could improve was the kissing. Need to work on that.

For voice tone and vibe, I had my relaxed voice and vibe on. She asked if I was on anything, like drugs, because it seemed like I could be high. I said no. My relaxed vibe is pretty relaxed. And I had taken a cat nap before meeting her, so my relaxation was good. I tried to talk slowly and seductively. Talking slowly. I had read Eric Reeve's article on efficiency, and it talked about working on your social pressure, by practicing using liberal pregnant pauses. I definitely talked slowly. I guess it seemed to help in making her ask questions. For example, I met her at the subway station, and then walked a few blocks to the bar. Along the way, I started deep diving her, using my slow, pregnant pauses. I guess it worked, because she started answering them. The wrong type of energy would be more upbeat and rapport seeking. But the slow and seductive seemed at least to have her answer questions, my deep diving questions.

At one point walking to the bar, she said something like "now you have to answer my questions" but I asked her another one, using my slow, seductive voice. She seemed to go along with it. At the bar, she asked what I did and I said a drug dealer, joking. I then talked about writing and how I was passionate about it. She said things like "would you want to become a writer?" and that train of thought. What was good was we didn't talk about my day job, just because this isn't very enthralling. Compare this to the girl the other night where she was pelting me with questions and I answered. This was tiring for myself. How do you turn it back on the girl? Slow, seductive voice, to put the social pressure on her.

For example, I listened to the podcast with Daniel Adebayo about seductive talking. I also read one of his lay reports, and the girl said at the end something like "you have such a seductive voice". So he has a voice that works. But listening to him on the podcast, it seems like he talks very slowly. I think talking slowly overall, and using pregnant pauses, is how you control the social pressure. For another example, in onedate, Hector asks Chase a question, and Chase sort of pauses, as if thinking if or how to respond, and then does so. In that second or beat or whatever when he is thinking, there is a little pressure on the previous speaker (Hector, in this case) for it to be a good question. Chase doesn't jump right in, or act overly excited to have gotten the question, but rather pauses, pregnantly, then then answers.

I think this is the overall method of controlling the social pressure. If someone is talking with you, if they say something, you can always affirm or dis-affirm what they said, by your reaction. In any social setting this can be the case. If you pause, pregnantly, then you can make them wonder for a beat "did I just say something dumb or socially unintelligent?" Then you relieve it by answering. And you do so slowly, which also make them listen more, because they are hanging on what you are going to say.

I like how Eric described it, though, because it really is how social pressure works. Talking slowly seems to be a big part of it. Or at least it seemed to work.

The escalation could have used some work. What would be some things you could do to allow her to feel more open in the moment? Things like seeing frames where you like people who go for what they want and are non-judgmental. I don't think I set any of these frames, at least consciously, although maybe my whole vibe exuded that somehow? That is one way to try to be. But I think more explicitly trying set these frames would be good because then when you got back, hopefully she would be more comfortable being sexual. This would be one way to help her feel more free to be in the moment and go after what she wants.

What would be other ways to do the escalation? I will ponder that until I write next.

 

[bobbyb112]

Over the past week I talked to two girls and had an interesting reaction. Basically, both times, they started pelting me with questions. Where was I from, what I did, etc. Both times, I wasn't sure how to handle it. I know it is good, because they are interested. But how do I turn this into a productive seductive conversation?

Maybe I can move closer, to up the vibe, plus reward her for showing interest.

 

[bobbyb112]

Over the past few months I've gone on dates, and invited the girl home. Then we get home, in my bedroom, sitting on a seat. I kiss her. We kiss for a bit. She is sort of into it, but not that much. Then it dies out. Sometimes I wait, and then try to kiss her again. But she never gets really into it. Eventually she leaves.

This is a sticking point of mine. A girl comes come and is in my bedroom, kissing but not super into it. We don't end up having sex and she leaves, usually never to be heard from again. How do I overcome this sticking point? Replies welcome.

Thoughts:
- On the date, I don't set strong enough of a sexual frame. There is plenty or at least some deep diving. But doesn't turn sexual in a strong way. This is something I want to work on.
- For the escalation, when at home, there's that moment when you kiss her twice, and they says something like "what?" or "what do you want?". What is a good answer here? Do you want to lay your cards on the table and say "I want to have sex with you" (or some variation of that)? Maybe if I'm forward like that at least a percentage will say yes. Not sure if that's optimal, though.
- I could make my look edgier. This might add to the sex appeal. Like another bracelet, and have a necklace. This would add to the sex appeal, making me appear more the lover.

 

[Railer]

Was there any sexual vibe up to the moment of the kiss or did she join you home "as a friend" and got confused by the sudden transition?
Also, do you feel sexual at all when you kiss her? If you don't, she won't.

 

[bobbyb112]

Great questions.

- Sexual vibe leading up: I would say the dates where we didn't have sex, there was less of a sexual vibe leading up. I've had a few dates where we did have sex, and the vibe leading up was stronger/ more sexual. Thus, when we got back, things just naturally flowed, and we did have sex in short order. The dates where it didn't work, leading up, there was less of a vibe on the date. Next question is, how do I create that vibe on the date? I'm not sure, but it's high on my list of priorities to work on. Maybe it can be as simple as feeling more sexual on the date. Taking her in. Feeling desire for her. Which then permeates through your words and actions. This seems like a good thing to work on. Actually becoming a more sexual man. I think I did this by accident/ naturally on the dates where we did end up having sex.

- Feeling sexual when you kiss her: This is definitely something I want to work on. If nothing else, I've been inviting her home/ kissing her because I'm getting comfortable with the mechanics of the process. But, feeling desire and being in the moment are ultimately what's going to make it feel sexual, which, like you said, will make her feel sexual.

So overall, feel more sexual on the date, and let it permeate your words/ actions. And then have that flow through to the escalation.

Thoughts/ comments? Replies welcome!

 

[Railer]

I think you're on track already. Maybe make things more exciting for both by escalating outside of bed, against the kitchen table or anything. There's also a GC article somewhere outlining how to get turned on by girls even when they not overly excite you ... and If you don't actually desire a certain girl you can still just make her a friend.

 

[bobbyb112]

Thanks indeed for the feedback, Railer.

Lately, I'm still running into what I guess is LMR. I worked on my "vibe" on the date, and that is definitely helping. But when escalating at home, I get stuck somewhere after kissing but before sex. Could be her shirt/ pants/ or clothes off, but no actual sex. So I'm working on this last "10%" of the process, as it were.

Another question: On the date, multiple times a girl has asked where I live, around 20 minutes into the date. In one article, Chase talks about this being a sign of interest, and to invite her home soon thereafter. So, is this a strong enough buying signal to invite her home?

One girl I did this, and she came home (ended up getting stuck at LMR). A few others have asked this, but I didn't invite them back yet, and instead talked for a bit longer, then invited later (sometimes they say yes, sometimes not). Maybe I'll make it a rule for myself to invite her back within a few minutes of her asking this, to see if it means she is ready to go back.

Thoughts or insights?

 

[Railer]

I rarely ever experienced LMR, so I pulled out one of Mystery’s books and had a look at some tactics he suggested:

• Make sure you qualified her enough (deep-diving) so that she has reason to believe you really like her … or tell her what you find hot about her in the moment.
• While things are getting hotter, say "we should stop" while actually continuing ("token resistance").
• Make sure she has invested in you getting together in the first place.
• Do a slight retreat/pause, then continue. IIRC in "The Game" Style talked about doing this for almost an entire night until it worked.

Question from my side: How does she communicate the resistance? Does she just hold you back, say or ask something?

is this a strong enough buying signal to invite her home?

Possibly. Depends where and how in the conversation. But, yes, ask in the right manner and you’ll know. If she denies, just continue talking as if it was of no importance, then invite again a bit later.

 

[bobbyb112]

Thanks for the responses Railer, lots to think about.

I've gone on a handful of dates since my last post. One thing that helped was putting my hands around her while kissing, and starting to run them along her waist body. This stimulates in a somewhat innocuous way, which you can then move towards "hotter" areas, like the breasts, legs, or vagina.

• Deep diving: I definitely try to do this a bunch, and am still working on it. I feel like this is something you always can improve, so I think I can do better. That being said, it's okay enough so that girls do come home with me often, FWIW.
• "We should stop": This is great, I'm going to try this. A good way to overcome or pre-empt her "token resistance".
• Investing: I definitely get at least some investment, through various ways. This is such a broad concept, but can include things like: having her tell me about herself, what she likes, her childhood, what she wants out of life (deep diving stuff), plus things like having her show me her rings/ bracelets/ necklace/ tattoos. Compliance requests like having her follow me into the bar, FWIW. What other good investment things I can have her do?
• Slight retreat/ pause: This is good, I've been doing this a bit more than I was when I wrote the previous entry. Going "10% slower than she wants to" is a good way to escalate things but not have it feel like it's going faster than she wants. However, I can still work on this, because sometimes when she doesn't want to go ahead I just get impatient am like "let's either do this or not", which sometimes causes her to leave, and other times works out.

How does she communicate the resistance?:

• It's basically her at some point saying "I have to leave", and getting up to go.
• Or me trying to get closer, like we're kissing and I put my arms around her, and she pulls her head away to stop.
• On an escalation note, when you're sitting next to a girl and kissing, how do escalate without it feeling like you're putting in too much effort like leaning over to her? Do you pull her into you? What if she's not ready for that and resists your gentle pulling (this has happened to me)?

It could be at any step in the escalation process:
- I try to kiss her, she resists and we don't kiss, she says "I need to go" and she gets up and leaves
- I kiss her, we're kissing, she doesn't really get into it, I try to escalate by rubbing my hands on her body, she lets me, I pull down her shirt to lick the breasts, she said "I need to leave", she gets up and leaves
- We're kissing with no shirt on, I put my hands to rub her vagina, she says "I have to leave", she gets up and leaves
- We kiss, I take off her shirt, we go to the bedroom, I take off her pants, we're kissing with only her panties on, she says I don't want to have sex, I say ok no problem, we continue, I rub her vagina over the underwear, she pushes my hand away, she says "I have to leave", she gets up and leaves

If she denies, just continue talking as if it was of no importance, then invite again a bit later.

Great advice. I've done this a few times, where I ask early, she denies, and we just keep talking (and then it has either worked out or not later). One time, I invited her back, she said yes, we got home, I ran into LMR. I guess my question is, would it make sense in any situation to NOT bring her back at a sooner time, to get more investment? Is it ever too early to bring her back, even if she says yes? Or if she is willing to go back is that usually a pretty robust interest measure?

I have another observation:
I've been having more trouble with girls in the 27-32 range, compared to the 24-27 range. After reading Chase's article here (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-womens-tastes-men-change-they-age), it seems like I've been coming across as more of a rogue. Which is why the 28-29 yo's I've been on dates on have not been into it. Moreover, they are screening me harder, as the article says. And they don't want to move as fast. Which is all ironic, because I am established and so forth. I just don't portray myself that way, because my target demographic (younger girls) don't like it as much. But maybe with 27-32 yo's, I will show more of my established side. On the flip side, I could just only go after younger girls, which is my preferred demo. Although for the skills I want to be able to get all ages

 

[Railer]

Do you consider yourself an exceptionally good catch (outstandingly attractive + wealthy)? Or are the girls far below the quality you could have?

Both could contribute to what you're experiencing.

I reads as though you don't really "love" those girls but rather just look for some body to hammer.

What region are you in?

 

[bobbyb112]

I do consider myself a "catch". Some of the girls were lower in quality, some are better. Either way, if a girl is sitting on my couch, I'd like to be able to seal the deal.

You could say I wasn't wild about some of the girls. But this is all happening with larger girls, middle girls, and more attractive girls.

Region: I'm in the US

As it happens, last night I got a legit attractive girl home. However, I was nervous, and we kissed, but same issues. Eventually, she was like "I'm going to go". Maybe I could have pushed harder here. I think it's about being in the moment more, instead of being in my head. I find I'm thinking quite a bit during escalation, compared to the date/ pull home, when I'm more on autopilot and have a decent process. But then when I get to the escalation, I get in my head, perhaps overthink it, can then the issues above happen.

Maybe I just need to focus on enjoying the moment, assuming that she wants to escalate as well, and going from there. There have been escalations where I had more of a mindset of "I know she wants me", compared to some where I'm in my head and questioning myself more. A way to combat this is to "picture the conquest", and picture the process, so you're more comfortable with it, know where you want it to go, and so can execute better. I might do this for escalations, so I can become more comfortable with the process.

I'm working on "enjoying" the whole process more, which comes from a comfort, familiarity, and effectiveness. Right now I'm thinking too much during escalations, and it's not working very well, and it's not very enjoyable. Make sure to remember to breathe deep.

 

[bobbyb112]

This week I had a few good and not-so-good dates.

One, I did my process, and brought her back. I then used some escalation techniques I'd seen from other places. I used it, and it worked, and we ended up having sex. There was a tiny bit of LMR, but I guess I handled it. I was happy about being able to have some "moves" to do in the escalation part, to go from kissing up to having sex.

I also had another date this week. We did the date, then I brought her home. We kissed, but then she said she had to leave. I tried the new escalation techniques above as well, but it didn't work this time, and she said she had to go, then did.

I also identified an issue I've been having, which was described perfectly in this article (Tactics Tuesdays: 5 Ways to Make Her Not Feel Slutty About Sex). Basically, as the article says, making her not feel slutty about sex. I've had a number of times where we've gone back to my place, started kissing, but then she has to leave when I try to move it forward. It seems like I'm not setting sexual frames enough in the dates, so that she feels allowed to feel sexual around me.

Per the article, I've started to implement some of those tactics. Including, on the date, talking about spontaneity, going after what you want, and not worrying what other people think. I've used these tactics on 2 dates so far, and it hasn't worked yet, but it's in the right direction toward allowing her to see me as a sexual man, and allowing herself to feel open about sex around me.

I've been doing deep diving, which is good. But turning it sexual has been more of a challenge. Thus, when we get back to my place and I make a move, she doesn't feel allowed to get sexual etc. Of course, sometimes it hasn't mattered. But it's happened enough times for it to be a pattern. At least it seems to me.

Moreover, I want to be the guy that they can feel open and sexual around. I want to provide that experience for them, even if we don't end up getting together for whatever reason. Being an open, non-judgemental, and also sexual guy who is like a breath of fresh air, both connection-wise (deep diving), and as it regards sexuality. I feel I haven't communicated the sexual part in the past as well as I could have, so that's something I want to work on. Being sexual.

Another item to remember is, on the date, just be relaxed and have fun. That seems like non-advice, for me it's something I have to remember. On 2 dates this week I was trying a different way of using my voice, and it didn't feel very seductive or natural. Whereas in the past when I haven't forced it as much, it's turned out better. So just for myself, this is a reminder to relax and be myself. Again, this sounds like feel-good non-advice. But it more means listen to your instincts, and get out of your own way. And relax.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on 2 dates today.

The first was a 30 yo girl from China who was doing an masters program. We got coffee/tea, then drove to a park a few minutes away. We sat on a picnic table and talked for a while. Starting off at least, she had some masculine mannerisms. Which might make sense, because she was in a high-powered career in the corporate world. We talked for while. I tried to have us go back to her apt, since mine was about 30 min away and she was like 5 min away. But she said she had to study and so forth, and wouldn't be available for 2 more weeks.

I felt I successfully was: calm, relaxed, not trying too hard, playful. That seemed pretty good. My posture wasn't quite as good as it could have been, and I noted it as something to work on. A mistake was not to ask her how much time she had. It was about 1.5 hours, then her study partners started texting her to work on this stuff. Of course, if I was sexy enough and so forth, then she probably would have made the time. But still, it's not good to not know how much time you have. Maybe I could have moved faster, to try to get us to her apt sooner, if I had known she had to leave at a certain time.

As a side note, does anyone have success with girls in the 27-32 range? It seems like these girls are often or always more on guard, or just don't want to be in the moment and go with the flow. FWIW, I am in this range myself, not sure if that matters. How are you having success with these girls? All my success has come from younger girls.

For the second date, she was a 29 yo girl and we met up at a bar. We went and had some drinks. She talked a lot and was kind of cool. Although I perhaps had some trouble turning it sexual. Also, what do you do when a girl just talks a ton, and you don't really have a chance to guide the conversation? Do you just get closer and let the closeness increase the sexual tension? Seems like it might be good.

I brought her home, and she was really talking at that point. I kissed her, and we kissed a bit, but then she shut down, meaning shrinking away, with her body and head. We talked some more, with her talking on about stuff. Eventually I bluntly said "I want to have sex". To her credit, she rolled with it, saying "I've been known to be horny from time to time.... (pause).... but we're not having sex on the first date". "I think you should leave then". And indeed she left.

I sort of just wanted her to shit or get off the pot, so to speak. Plus, when a girl is talking and I feel like there is no vibe, and she is just blabbering on, I don't enjoy it, and would rather she go. I guess my question is, what am I missing in this picture? Again, maybe I could just up the sexual tension, and if she goes with it great. But sometimes I do that, and she just keeps talking. It's weird. It's like she ignores it, and just keeps talking, or even talks more. And I can't get a word in edgewise. And it feels like we aren't having a conversation, but she is just talking. WTF. Is my presence not forceful enough?

Maybe I could challenge her. Say "sorry you're boring the crap out of me, can you talk about something different?". That might work. At least she might find something more interesting to talk about. Hmm.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a few dates since my last post.

One was with a 22 yo girl. I was trying something sort of new, which was to be "myself" more. What that meant was, growing up I was very quiet. I got away from that, as I tried to socialize more and whatnot. But then I thought, hey, there's the "strong silent" type archetype, or the quiet guy (such as Cody Lyons), so why don't I try doing that, and seeing how it goes.
I did that on this date, and it was good because I felt more myself. I felt more in the moment, making jokes and whatnot. Plus, doing a "poker face" as Alek Rolstad talks about, was easy this way.
On the date, she was pretty fun, and I invited her back to mine. We started kissing, but she didn't want to go further. We kept kissing for quite a while. Eventually we went into the bedroom, where we kissed more. Eventually, like after maybe an hour or 2, I sealed the deal.
I liked this because it was an escalation where she didn't want to to ahead, but she didn't leave, either. She didn't really resist the given "level" we were on, so I kept going, and eventually we had sex. I hadn't really done that before, so that's kind of cool.

I went on a date tonight. It was with a 28 yo girl.

We started off sitting across from each other at a table. I don't prefer this, because it feels too much like an interview. Eventually I went at an angle, using my standard reason of "I want to be able to hear you", which she was also cool with.
I asked about things she did. She didn't really have any hobbies besides the standard stuff of "hanging out with friends", and "clubbing". She also didn't really travel much. I challenged her on it, being like "those are boring". I'm not sure really what else to say. What do you say when a girl just works, hangs out with friends, goes out, and goes to the gym?
I guess the answer is that I have to find out what she DOES care about. Obviously, it's not really any of those things, but maybe it's something else.
I guess it just shows that lots of girls aren't a good fit long-term. But still, I'd like to be able to screen her in for something at least short term. I want her to pass my screens, but not infrequently they can't or won't.
I guess it'd be another problem if she doesn't WANT to pass my screens, so doesn't come up with anything. But if she came out on the date, she likes me, and I otherwise don't make any big mistakes on the date, I don't see why she wouldn't.
There also wasn't enough sexual energy. I tried to remedy this by getting close to her. It sort of worked, I guess.
I did sort of hurt the vibe by teasing her in a way which wasn't helpful. But it already wasn't going very far even before that, so I'm not beating myself up over it too much.
Another thing I could do if have me sit against the wall, and her facing me, rather than her facing out to the bar, and me facing her/the wall. That way, I feel more "locked in" than she does, which could help. I haven't paid much attention to this, but it might help.
On a different note, I strongly dislike alcohol, and I really wish there was a way to do these dates without drinking alcohol. I'm not sure how, but I would enjoy it a lottttt more if I didn't have to drink alcohol. I wonder how I can do that. Keep in mind this was at night on a weekday, so an alcoholic beverage is usually the most logical, but I wish there was something else.
Another thing I did, she mentioned she bartended part time. For whatever reason, I thought this was cool, so I said so. But I think it came off as supplicating. Then again, if it's just something interesting to latch onto that I find interesting, that could be fun. But then again, you'd really want to see how SHE feels about it, and then talk about that. Whether you think something is cool is irrelevent. It's what SHE thinks about it. So ask about that. Get to the emotions around it, and if desired, relate to her on the emotions of if, and not the surface of what it is. I did this with another girl who bartended part time, too. I don't know why I think it's so cool, but now that I'm conscious of that belief, I can reframe it for myself.

Last week I went on a date with a 30 yo girl. She was also "normal, but didn't have anything particularly interesting about her". I created some sexual tension by moving closer, which was good, because you could feel it a bit. I invited her back, but she declined. She said we could check out a bar nearby instead, but I didn't want to, so ended it. Good to create that sexual tension by moving closer.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

She was 29, and slim. We were at a bar/drink spot, and I invited her back for some wine. She hesitated, and I said "just for a bit". She said yes. So we kept talking, paid the bill, and went.

Back at home, we talked for a bit. Eventually, I kissed her. We kissed for a little bit. But when I moved my hands to escalate, she moved them away. She said she had to go. She left a few minutes later.

One thing, I might have moved my hands on her too soft. Girls don't like when you feel "hesitant". They like when you're aggressive, and go after you want. So maybe moving the hands more aggressively would have helped. Then again, maybe it would have caused her to get up and leave sooner. That's always a possibility, too. But it's worth testing.

While sitting and talking at the bar, there was somewhat of a sexual vibe, but not much. I'm working on upping this. One way is by getting closer. But it's funny with chairs, because do you move the chairs closer? I guess that works. Maybe I could start off closer. But then that feels like too much too fast. I like the feeling of getting closer. But I don't see a good way to do it.

So the focuses are 1. moving closer at the bar, so make things more sexual. Along with that is setting sexual frames. 2. When kissing, moving my hands faster or more aggressively over her body, just to show that I mean business. Because girls like it when you're more aggressive.

Any other thoughts anyone?