Journal

[bobbyb112]

With the girl from the other day, I texted to see if she would meet up again. She seemed like she might, but then potentially pushed into the week. I gave her an out, to do a later day. This was a mistake, because you don't want to give her an option to push it out farther, because she will likely take it. I'm kicking myself that I made this mistake. But oh well. We will see if she comes out again.

I am glad that she generally wanted to meet up again, because most times in the past when I had escalated but not had sex, the girl wouldn't want to meet up again. Moreover, I felt like I was responding to her emotions and what she was feeling better, which is good, because if you are more in tune with what she is feeling, then you proceed along the dance of seduction at the speed that she wants, while leading, instead of bulldozing your way forward without regard to what she is feeling.

This is good. I am feeling more of what is going on in the seduction, rather than just bowling forward and relying on a vague sense of timing. When you can see the sub-steps, and hit the escalation windows, as Chase says, by listening to what the girl is telling you, you can make it a smooth process for her. This leads to smooth seductions, where nothing feels forced, and you proceed forward at a nice speed.

With the girl the other day, when she was talking, I sort of let her go on and on. This is okay, because she was investing quite a bit, and telling my important things about her life. But also, I needed to take control of the conversation a little bit, to hit on the high or emotional points. And also get her used to following my lead, even if she was already going to go there. So next time, I want to make sure to lead the conversation and not just let her go on and on. This will also help it transition into sexual topics better, because you can get the needed parts in emotional connection stage, and then be ready to switch into sexual topics.

On another note, it is winter in my city, and it seems like girls are going out less for dates and whatnot. This is to be expected. During the winter things slow down a bit. But, there are still girls out there. And when the warmer weather comes, which is soonish, it'll be better.

 

[bobbyb112]

I had a date the other night.

We met up for drinks. Talked. Eventually went back to mine. Escalated. Messed around. Closed the deal. She seemed happy upon leaving, and texted the next morning.

I used Chase's 8 questions to ask on a date. These were helpful, because they are great jumping off points for different aspects about her. Like childhood, things she likes, travel. Then, the ones about adventures and spontaneity help transition the conversation into more exciting or sexual areas. The conversation never really got very "sexual". But using these latter questions set the frame as more exciting, and me approving of that.

My vibe was decent. I was in a somewhat decent vibe after talking to people for a sales gig during the day. In the non-surprise of the century, doing sales helps with seduction. Shocker. If nothing else, because it forces you to get comfortable talking to people. Although you do have to work on your sexual vibe, in addition to your general ability to talk to people.

I want to continue to use Chase's questions, because they give you a good amount of conversation fodder. It also helps you steer and drive the conversation, so she isn't going off on unproductive tangents. I also had her show me her jewelry, like earrings and rings. This was good compliance. Also, transitioning it into more exciting and adventurous topics frames you as exciting and sexy, which is a good frame to have.

 

[bobbyb112]

I had a tale of two dates this week.

The first, we met up and had a drink. The big mistake I made, was to sort of slouch with my posture forward. This poor posture is something that is easy to fall into, especially if you have been sitting at a desk all day. This meant that despite my witty conversation, it didn't "land", because she couldn't feel my masculine power or energy, because I was sort of slouched in my seat. Posture is important.

The next day, I had a date with a different girl. I recognized that the posture was a big thing I had messed up on the first date, and I corrected it. I sat with my lower back straight. This led to more scintillating conversation, and her investing way more. It felt like we were old friends talking, instead of two people who don't know each other trying to get to know each other.

On the first date, she seemed like she liked me, but I invited her back and she gave a naw answer. The second date, when I invited her back, she said sure. By the time we got back, I kissed her within the first 5 minutes, and it was game on from there.

This posture thing is something I recognized over the previous dates I went on, which should be in this thread. In the first there, my posture was slouched, and I just barely made it happen. In the second, my posture was great, and we felt connected and the deal ended up closing. Lesson learned. Posture is vitally important. Even when you're sitting down.

Another thing I've been working on in my process is turning things more sexual. Sexual topics. After the deep diving. I did this somewhat, where we touched on some more sexual topics, lightly. I still have to work on this. But it was enough, because it got her thinking about things. As far as the "decision" stage, where she shifts into a lower gear and is making her decision, I can't say I observed this very well. I'm sure it happened, I just didn't have an eye to notice it well enough. That's something to look out for in the future.

The second date, it just felt so much more fun and connected (for lack of a better word), which is good. I can't say I enjoyed the first date. It just felt too forced. Whereas the second felt free and flowing. This is nice for me, because it is fun for me to be a part of. And having fun is half the battle, right?

Another thing I want to work on is sexing the woman well. Not to be overly objective-oriented, how can I make her cum? How can I make sure it's a great experience for her? This is something I want to do well.

I've tried adapted missionary for a while. I go for a while, focusing on the rhythm, and all the stuff in the "make her orgasm in 8 minutes or less" article. But I can't say I've seen the girl have a ton of screaming orgasms. It's been alright, but maybe I'm doing it wrong. Anyone have any insights?

Takeaways: Posture-sit and stand up straight, with your lower back. Process-turn it sexual somehow.

 

[bobbyb112]

I was ruminating on texting, and how to handle when the girl tries to get into a texting conversation after you've set the first date logistics.

I've had several first dates where we set the time/place, great, then she tries to engage in text conversation. Usually with things like "how are you?" "how was your day?" "what are you up to?" "where are you from?" "what do you do for work?".

My instinct, and someone can tell me if I'm wrong, is that engaging in conversation over text, especially before a first date, is just going to kill intrigue, give her reasons not to meet up, and nothing good can come from it. Moreover, I don't like "talking" via text because I am busy doing other things. So what do you do?

You can't ignore it, because that just makes you seem like too much of a dick. You don't want to get into deep conversation. You do want to communicate that 1. you are busy 2. you won't be able to "chat" over text 3. but you're looking forward to meeting her in person. So, a few different times, I did this: I used the intrigue frame.

My replies were along the lines of "busy busy", "it's complicated", "it's long story", or "just working, kicking ass and taking names". What is good about these responses is 1. they are short, implying you are busy 2. intriguing, implying there is an interesting story behind it 3. you'll talk more when you meet up, but over text you won't be able to chat too much.

The handful of times I have used these responses, they worked. I got the girl out on the date, and sometimes we had sex. But the point is, that I didn't lose the date before we met up, and handled the potential no-benefit time-suck of chatting via text, in a smooth, low-effort, calibrated, high-value way.

If she doesn't get the hint, then you can use something more explicit, like "let's save the deep conversation for when we talk in person". But I haven't had the chance to try that one, yet.

I'm curious what others think about as far as texting after you've set plans, but before you meet up. Another objection I've gotten during this stage is "what is your IG?", as in, she wants to see that I am real, I suppose. I don't have IG, so how do I handle that? I have tried a few things, but curious if anyone has better thoughts on that.

 

[Higher]

you make plans via text with a new girl, then she asks "how are you?" or "how's your day been?" or something like that, how do you respond?

As you already said, I'd just reply with a short sentence conveying some kind of value, then I'd ask her likewise and do a quick flirt/playful tease on her response so as to close the thread. No need for long convos at this stage, but for sure I would not ignore it.

As for IG I'd just tell her, I don't have IG, I know, I'm weird.

EDIT: didn't read your latest post when writing this. I modified this post accordingly.

 

[bobbyb112]

@Higher
Great advice, thanks Higher. Yeah, I deleted the older short post when I wrote the longer one this morning. But your advice is spot on.

I swear, I feel autistic asking some of these questions sometimes. But yeah just keeping it light and flirty and short seems like the way to go. Appreciate it.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date the other day.

We met outside one place. I wanted to try a different place, so we went there. Had drinks the bar. We sat at bar stools, which I don't love, because they are kind of hard to sit on. Also, you end up shifting around on them a lot. But oh well, it worked out.

Talked. I teased her quite a bit, which seemed to work, although it wasn't super sexual or anything. Talked about some sex topics a little bit. She was one of those nervous/excited girls, who didn't really have a very "sensual" mode. So although we talked about sexual topics and touched, she didn't really pick up on the vibe necessarily. More just smile and go along with it. We did talk about tattoos, which is a good sexual topic. Regardless, I asked if she wanted to grab a drink at my place and she said sure. We went back, kissed, and closed the deal.

After sex, she said she had to use the bathroom. From there, she put on her clothes, and left. It was chill, but still kind of abrupt. I asked if she had to go and she said yes, she had to make dinner, and pick up her dog. I guess this is fine. It was a little weird, still, though. Like I said, abrupt.

My plan is to try to see her again, but who knows if she will or not. We'll see. My guess is not, but we'll see.

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

Enjoying your reports. Lots of solid information. I respect that you are a man who is actively seeking to become better. A lot of people say that, but then don't actually put in the work and self-analyze.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date with a girl the other day.

I was rather tired from having less sleep the prior night. It didn't go well. Also, she didn't really leave time for it, because she came directly from work, and had to drive home for 30 mins. This isn't a good frame, unless, you do a "short date" I guess. That is, it isn't so good for her to come, wearing work clothes, and not having freshened up or get ready. You want her to do that. I'm not sure how I can prevent that. Maybe if it seems like she would be coming for work, try to find a different time so that she isn't.

We had decent conversation. But I was tired, and so not quite mentally there. Shows the importance of sleep.

 

[bobbyb112]

I have a weird question.

A handful of girls that I've slept with have had vaginas that were really tight. Like, so tight that I could barely even get two fingers in. I was surprised at how small they were. I chalked this up to girls just having different size vaginas. It made sex uncomfortable with them, though, because my dick could barely get in. Other girls, their vaginas were bigger, and I could get it in fine, and have good sex. Objectively speaking, I'm pretty sure my dick is average size.

What was going on with these girls? Are some girl's vagina's just really small? Or were they clenching them tight, for some reason? If so, why? This has happened with 3-4 girls, so I'm curious what is going on.

 

[Casanova Newhouse]

Not sure I've ever had that problem ... the few times I've struggled to get it in, it was because the girl wasn't wet enough. Oral sex and deft fingering usually takes care of that. It may also be an unconscious comfort thing on their part - they may not even be aware they are clenching up, if that's what's happening.

 

[bobbyb112]

I have a handful of experiences I'll write about later.

Right now, I am thinking about my apartment. I'm considering moving when the lease is up. However, will getting a nicer apartment put me into "boyfriend zone" instead of "lover zone"? The one I have is decent, although it looks kind of sketchy when walking up before you go inside. Inside it is fine. The new places I'm thinking about going, are close to bars, which is good for logistics. But they are nicer, more like apartment complexes. I wonder if that would make me seem too high-value, and so be put into the boyfriend category instead of lover.

Chase has said in the past that when he had a nice place, girls would see it put the brakes on, because they want to keep him around for longer term. I wonder if anyone has any strong well-formed opinions about this.

On a different note, I've been using a mattress on the floor for my bedding. Some girls don't seem to care, but some say "I'm judging you about this". I'm sure you can frame it out, like "judge away". However, I'm tired with dealing with the questions, so I am going to get a bed frame to go with the mattress. If I were to have to defend the mattress, you could say that it sets the lover frame more. However, it is probably too much for some girls. At least for longer-term stuff. In other words, I don't want to create that much unnecessary friction by having just a mattress instead of a bed. However, if my results change, I might go back to the mattress, because of the lover frame it establishes. Well-formed opinions about this are welcome.

 

[bobbyb112]

A few weeks ago I went on vacation by myself to a different country. It was a great chance to go on dates with women, and I did. Here are some stories from 8 dates:

The first girl, we agreed to meet up at a local hostel bar. When I got there, she was there with a guy. She said he was her gay cousin. We talked and flirted and got to know each other, but the gay cousin was sort of just there. Eventually I sort of punted on trying to seduce her, and opened it up to him, and some other people who were at the bar. I knew that breaking the me-her frame would lose the chance of ultimately pulling. But, I didn’t have much a plan for logistics for isolating her, or going to another bar. And since it was my first night in a foreign country, I didn’t want to try anything crazy. So, I broke frame and talked more to the gay cousin.

We also had a bit of a language barrier, with her speaking mostly Spanish, and my mostly English. I know that language is not an insurmountable barrier to pickup, but it didn’t make it easier. Moreover, I don’t think I have great nighttime/bar “physical” escalation game. So that’s another reason I ended up punting.

Takeaways:

• Knowing the layout of your venue and having a good place to move the girl, or isolate her, is good. Also, having a plan for moving her to another bar, also can be good. Basically, having a logistical plan in place allows you to lead, with confidence, and get her following your lead. This all is very valuable and important, and I didn’t have it here.
• Night game: I am not very experienced picking girls up at bars and clubs, and the loud music, plus friend(s), plus “cockblocks” (there was another guy who started talking with our group), all of these were elements that I’m just not used to dealing with and didn’t have a great way of dealing with them.

The second girl: It was during the day around noon, and we met up outside a grocery store. We walked along the sidewalk, looking for a place to sit and drink some smoothies or something. I didn’t really have a plan, so was just exploring along the sidewalk, looking at things. At one point, I looked really lost or confused or indecisive, and she said something. This was bad, because girls hate when guys look indecisive. We’ll see it come back to bite us later.

We walked, got some smoothies, walked more. She spoke mostly Spanish and me mostly English, so that was a bit of a challenge. We went back to my hotel room to drink them, because there was AC. I tried to escalate, but she gave resistance.

Here, I basically didn’t do enough of the process to close and have it go well. Although she did come back to my hotel room, there wasn’t enough of a bond, nor attraction, to make it happen. Frankly I’m not sure how or why we went to my hotel, rather than sitting outside to drink them and talk. It was a challenge with the language barrier. So I just led us back to the hotel room. I guess that just highlights the value of leading. However, as we saw, it didn’t end up closing, because it was too premature.



The third girl: We met up around 5pm. She was off for the day. We walked along the street to a bar. She was unusually submissive. We got a drink. Talked. Flirted. I suggested we walk some more. We went to the beach. Sat. Kissed. The had us move again, to walk along the beach. We walked for a ways. I knew where we were going, because I had been there before. But I wasn’t sure where I would be able to pull her to, for a seduction location. She lived with her parents, so that was not an option. We sat on a large piece of beach. Went in the water. She went in up to her waist, with clothes on. We sat on the beach. Kissed. It was getting dark. There were still people around, though. It got darker. There was thunder in the distance. A few drops of rain. Everyone else was leaving. We stayed and kissed. It started raining more, and finally we packed up to leave, too. We walked back towards the downtown. She asked if I wanted to go to the bus stop.

I wasn’t staying in that city, I was planning on catching a bus back to the other city that night. So I didn’t have a hotel to go to. She knew that was my original plan, but I said “it’s getting late, I might just stay here tonight, let me see your phone.” Also, my cell coverage didn’t work, so I had no internet to look up a hotel. So I had her give me her phone, and I looked up where hotels were. We walked to one, but it was a door with no front desk, so we went to the next. Then the third. Then, finally, we walked into the front desk of a nicer hotel. I got a room. We went up. Kissed. I had to got out to a store and get condoms. And we had a good night together.

Takeaways:

• This girl was more submissive than most, and I really felt that she wanted me to lead. Like, her feminine energy was testing my masculine energy to say “is he doing what HE wants to? If so, I will follow.” So, I did what I wanted to do, which was walk along the beach (which I had done by myself earlier in the day). That really made me feel into my masculine energy, and she seemed to respond to that.
• Compliance and movement are huge. By the time we got to the last beach location, where we kissed a lot, there was so much compliance built up that she easily and readily kissed and whatnot. Also, I mentioned wanting to go in the water, and she said something like “do you want to go in the water?” I said yes. So I did, and she came down to the water and went in up to her waist. I took this as, I am supporting him in his masculine purpose, and following it.
• It felt good to spend time with a submissive girl, who wants to follow whatever you want to do (as long as you unabashedly and decidedly want to do it). Feminine energy is nice.
• For some reason, I also started smirking during this whole seduction. The smirking energy felt nice. It is a good facial expression. I want to use it more.
• I used the “floppy test”. This is when you want to kiss a girl, you pull her shoulders into you. If she goes floppy, and lets you do it, then you kiss her, and she usually is into it. If she resists your pull, then you don’t kiss her. This is a way I read about of testing to see if the girl is ready to be kissed. I used it again and again, pulling her into me. This technique comes from AlphaRevalino on twitter, which is a great seduction follow.
• I also focused on keeping straight body posture, as per AlphaRevalino. It seemed to work, and while I sat straight on the blanket at the beach or laid straight on the bed at the hotel, she pressed her body up to mine, which felt like great frame. Rather than you going to her, which would be poor body posture. This seemed to help a ton, and work pretty well. I definitely want to continue to do this.

The fourth girl: We met on a Saturday night around 6. We walked along the street. I sort of had an idea of where I wanted to go, but not a great plan. We went to a bar at street level. It as kind of loud, so she suggested a quieter rooftop type place. We went there. It was nice. However, we were at a table, seated 90 degrees to each other, which wasn’t great. After that, I suggested the balcony at my hotel and she said sure. We went and got beverages at a convenience store, then to the hotel balcony. We stood there. I kissed her. I suggested going inside to sit. Although the room was pretty sparce, and only had chairs in the kitchen. We sat next to each other, and kissed some more.

All during this time, at each venue, she was texting people on her phone. She mentioned a few times that her friend was going to go to a different rooftop bar, and if we wanted to go there. I kind of brushed it off like “maybe”. After kissing in the kitchen for a bit, I moved my hands to her boobs, but she moved my hands away, and said that her friend was going to the rooftop bar and she had to go. We made tentative plans to hang out the next day on the beach. I walked her to the front door to unlock, kissed some more, and she left. The plans for the next day, she said she overslept from the previous night, and we didn’t hang out.

Takeaways:

• Having a (good) plan logistically is important. I had somewhat of a plan, but not as tight as it could have been. Her suggesting a place is good, but if you’re not the one leading, then it becomes less of an effort-free experience for her. Moreover, if she suggests the next place, it is a missed chance to get compliance, because if you suggested the place, she would be following your lead.
• Since it was night time, I dealt with loud music at the first venue. As the girl correctly pointed out, quieter rooftop lounge type places are better for getting to know someone. Chase has talked about how for night life he liked quieter lounge type places compared to really loud venues. A chill lounge type place. I can totally see this. The bar I bring girls on dates at home is quieter like this. If you do night game and don’t want to do physical game, and more verbal game, this is the kind of place you want.
• Sitting close to each other is important. I’ve said it before and the second venue reinforces it. Sitting next to each other is important. Tables where you sit 90 degrees stink. Also, more nooks or quieter or out of the way places to sit are better, because they feel more intimate. All these are part of logistics that help.
• I used my newfound smirk from the previous girl. It seemed to help. She hung around for a while. Moreover, I didn’t feel as awkward just being around her. In the past, without the smirk, I felt uncomfortable being around girls. The smirk gave me a solid baseline facial expression that is fun, which I feel led to better interactions. The fact that she hung around for 2-3 hours or whatever it was is a testament to this.
• I’m not sure how to handle a girl’s friends, such as the ones she was texting. Should I say “hey, quite texting while we’re hanging out on Saturday night.” Or, should I just not meet up for a date on Saturday nights? Moreover, is there some way to get a girl to get off her phone while we’re hanging out? This sort of happened with the 3rd girl above. She was texting her brother’s girlfriend, who she was supposed to go to the gym with. Eventually she told her she wasn’t coming. But still, it’s funny when a girl is just furiously texting other people while hanging out with you. This can be due to other social obligations, or safety or logistics communication. But I wonder what the right way to deal with it is. Same with her friend asking about going out to the other place. Could I have used social pressure to get the girl to tell her friend to not count on her to come? Or, maybe I could just run such a great process, conversation, and interaction that she forgets about other social obligations?

The fifth girl: The next day, I met up with a girl who was also on vacation. We met at her hostel, then walked, and decided to go to the beach and get a drink. We went there and drank some non-alcohol beverages. We talked, about her, and sort of got into sexual territory. I said let’s walk more, so we paid and walked along the beach. We went into the downtown. I suggested going to my place to check out the view of the city because there was roof overlook. We went there, and looked. I pulled her in using the “floppy test”, and kissed her. We kissed some more. We sat down on lounge chairs on the roof, and she faced me. We kissed again. I suggested we go downstairs to my room since it was colder. We went down there. She sat on the bed, and escalation was easy from there.

Takeaways:

• This was an example of GREAT logistics/plan. Her hostel was a 5-minute walk from my hotel, we walked 5-10 min to the beach. At the beach we sat on, effectively, plastic chairs while talking. We had some physical space between us on the beach while sitting, which is not ideal. But I had her move over to me to we could talk better which she did. We walked along the beach then up to the road, and back towards my hotel, at which time I suggested going there. It was a around 3-block loop with where we met, the beach, and my hotel. It gave 2 location changes (“lets walk along the beach” and “let’s check out the roof at my hotel”). Having 2 location changes, as opposed to one, is often good. Having just one (bar to home) can work, but having a seamless two is nice. Especially since we didn’t even have to sit for the second, but rather walked.
• I used the “floppy test” again, the 3rd time in 3 days. I love the floppy test. It is great. I also used straight body posture, as per AlphaRevalino. Strong body posture is good. I also used the smirk, which I had figured out from the 3rd girl. It seemed to work again, just making things that much more seamless to talk, while maintaining an air of mystery and intrigue.
• Girls that are on vacation are way easier. This surprises nobody. But it certainly helped here. Also, when you are in a foreign country, girls like you more. Again, not a shocker. But, helped with all these girls except for the one on vacation. It makes me want to live in a foreign country.
• Unfortunately, she was the one who suggested the beach bar we went to. It was a missed chance for me to lead. It worked out, but having a plan and being able to lead generates good compliance. Might as well take advantage of this. Girls don’t want to think during a seduction, is my thought. But, if anyone feels differently, let me know.

The sixth girl: After girl #5 left, I texted with a girl to meet up. We went to an area that she suggested, which was closer for her but farther for me (you can see where this is going, logistics-wise!). We went to a bar and sat. We talked.

She was interesting, because she was a former model (she was 29), who was now working in various hospitality. But she had THE SEXIEST mannerisms and facial expressions I had ever seen. We started talking getting to know each other, and she is biting her lower right lip. I teased her on it. But she used the cute and sexy look, hooded eyelids, parted mouth, underlook. All the sexy expressions that Chase writes about, she did. She should write for Girlschase. Or be a model, to demonstrate all the things he write about. It was fascinating to be on the other side of.

Moreover, she we generally good at conversation, asking about what I liked to do, how long I’d been doing it, why I liked it, etc. Again, all the things Chase writes about, as it relates to conversation. Note, I also did all this to her, asking about what she did, why she liked it, etc. Again, she did all the things Chase says to do. She was a great conversationalist.

One thing I’m not sure about, she did all these flirty and sexy things, and I was a little hard to tell if she was actually interested, or just, you know, practicing her own game. The answer is to basically get close, and see if she stays where she is, or moves away. It was a little hard, because we were sitting on high bar seats. Again, logistically, better if you can sit close to each other.

She also moved her hair back, to expose her neck. All these signs indicating she was interested and comfortable with me. She also said I was handsome, after a while.

I suggested going to a rooftop lounge closer to downtown. She deferred. I said let’s pay the bill and go. We did. I asked about her logistics, if she lived close. She lived a 10-minute walk away. I suggested going there to watch a movie. But this was too big an ask for her, and she said no. We ended up parting ways.

Takeaways:

• I didn’t really have great logistics or a plan here. I went to her area, which was closer to where the locals live. She also said that she worked at all the restaurants in that area. My area was 20-min walk away (and no option for taxi/rideshare). I knew that I didn’t have great logistics going in. It was also Sunday night, and we parted at 11pm, and she had work in the morning (so she said), so it’s not like I had a lot of time to try to be out and about with her.
• It was fascinating interacting with her because of her sexy mannerisms and conversational skill. She was an utter delight to be around. For example, if I had a billionaire friend, who said to me “I’d like to go on a date with a sexy, attractive, feminine girl who can make me feel like a king while also conversing like a pro”, I would recommend her. Can you see why women spend so much time trying to be sexy, feminine, attractive, and social? It works, for landing high-value guys. Just like men seducing women, some women are better than others at seducing men. It was pretty cool to see.
• I bet she would’ve kissed if I had gone for it (using the floppy test). But I was tired from walking in the hot sun all day, and having sex with the previous girl 2 hours earlier, so I didn’t have much juice to push it. This highlights the value of having good energy, through good food, drink, exercise, sleep, etc., to be able to push things and perform your best. It’s too bad, because I would at least like to have said I made out with a charming girl like this. But there’s always another.

The seventh girl: This was 2 days after I got home from the vacation, but I’m writing it here because I continued this period of high activity, and I used my learnings from 1-6. We met for drinks at a bar. I decided to try a different bar, so we walked there. I generally like being able to meet in one spot (like outside XYZ bar), and walk to another, because it creates movement, which is good compliance. We sat there and got a drink. We talked. I used the smirk, and straight body posture, as per AlphaRevalino. We talked for a while. The smirk really seemed to help with the overall vibe, and me just being comfortable being with and talking with the girl.

I can’t say the topics were home runs, nor the sexual energy. But eventually she said something like “do you like Mexicans?” (she was Mexican). I said yes, recognizing this as a tie-down question (similar to Chase’s “what do you think of me so far?... And is that good?”. She was tying ME down! I then asked if she like [my nationality], and she said yes. I recognized this as a signal to move things forward. I said I had some wine at my place and if she wanted to get a drink there. She said she couldn’t or something, so I dropped it for a bit. After a little I decided to go walk around so I said let’s walk around. We paid the bill and left. We walked to a park that was pretty dark. We sat on a bench. I kissed her, using the floppy test. We kissed some more. I said come on, and we walked around some more. Then I had us sit on some steps out of the way, outside. We sat next to each other, and kissed some more, me making sure to pull her in, using strong body posture, as per AlphaRevalino. I moved my hands over her, and put her on mine. Eventually she started rubbing my dick, and me her boobs, over her shirt.

Usually, if we are at my place, this is when I say let’s go to the bedroom, and from there it’s pretty much a sure thing. But we were outside in the dark park. I tried pulling home again, but she said she couldn’t. I walked her back, and we said we should hang out another day. She got picked up by her brother-in-law (so she claims!) because they carpooled to the city for the night. So she might not have been able to come back to mine because she had to get a ride with them back. I don’t want to overthink that, though.

Takeaways:

• Smirking works. I can’t believe I didn’t discover smirking until now. Looking back, so many guys who I knew in real life who were good with girls did this. But I never knew to do it. But now I know.
• Logistics can be great when you are on you “home turf”, when you know where you want to go. I hadn’t really utilized that park before, but since it is warm enough out now to use it, it was useful. I might have to add a second bar location, which I can use regardless of weather, and maybe that will help with my seductions. Usually I just go bar to home. But of course sometimes it doesn’t work, and maybe adding a second bar in there would help. It seems like it would take a lot of time, though, on weekdays, and you run into the risk of running out of time and she has to go home to sleep for work the next day. I wonder what others’ thoughts are.
• Strong body posture as per AlphaRevalino worked great here. When sitting on the steps, I sat straight, and she draped herself over me. It felt very masculine on my part, and feminine/submissive on her part. As it should be. It feels nice. I also pulled her over to me, by her shoulders, to kiss me, which also feels masculine and strong.

The eighth girl: The next night, I had a date with a girl. We met at the bar I usually use for first dates. We got a drink. Talked. Deep dived. Not sure if I got to sexual vibe/topics well enough, though. I said let’s go walk. We paid tab and went outside. I was planning on going to the park similar to the night before, but it was colder out and windy, so I said “It’s colder than I thought I have some wine at my place want to go grab a drink there?” She said sure. We went back. Got water. Sat. I pulled her in using the floppy test. She kissed. We kissed some more. I moved my hands over her breasts, which she let me do. I moved her hand over my dick, which she started rubbing. I said let’s go to the bedroom. And the rest is history.

Takeaways:

• Strong body posture, floppy test, solid plan and logistics, smirking. I think by now you can see the themes of this post. All these made this a relatively smooth seduction.
• Other things I’m doing that I didn’t write about here, but use, are deep diving (asking about work, childhood, hobbies, creativity, travel), sexual topics (working on this. Tattoos is one), physical compliance (asking to see her earrings, necklace, bracelet, nails, having her show me some work she has created on her phone, putting my cold hands from the drink on her arm, shoulder or neck, putting my hands on her shoulder or back, holding her hand sometimes), pulling. All this stuff builds up.

Bigger picture takeaways:
This 11-day period with 8 dates yielded a ton of learnings. It shows that just doing more activity, you’re likely to learn and get better at the given activity. Using easy to remember and implement tactics and strategies, such as those from Chase, AlphaRevalino, and others, really make a difference, and can be learned and implemented. Going abroad is great for higher attraction. Girls on vacation, whether in your hometown or where you go, are easier. Logistics and having a good plan are vital. Strong body posture is highly valuable. Smirking is great. Pulling her in is masculine.

This really makes me want to do even more dating. Every date, I just get better. The more I do, the better I get. The more consistently I can get results. It’s amazing to see and experience. It makes me want to design my lifestyle more around dating. I’m not sure what that would look like. But it really gets me thinking. I wonder how I can do that.

 

[gameboy]

Impressive! Sounds like one aweasome holiday trip Way to go man!

I have a question though, how the hell did you get all those dates lined up? Seems like a lot even for online. Even if you're doing the sugar dating thing I'm amazed you got all those dates without at least some girls flaking.

 

[bobbyb112]

Thanks @gameboy. All these dates were from Tinder or Bumble. I just counted, on Tinder I matched with 116 girls. Maybe 20 of them got their number, and 6 met up for a date. For Bumble it was 24 match, 2 number, 0 date.

More thoughts as it relates to the apps:

• As far as the apps go, I'm like everyone else and don't like them overall. The girls are lower quality than what you can get with real-life approaches. That being said, I feel like I do have an unfair advantage because I photograph well (IMO), so maybe they do better for me than other guys.
• I spent A LOT of time during the day on this vacation trying to coordinate these dates, from talking on the app, to getting the number and coordinating over text, to following up to try to meet up. Point being, it took a lot of time to set them up, it's not like I just poof had a bunch of dates lined up.
• Tinder and probably the other apps, I believe, give you a boost when you go to a new place. So I probably benefitted from that. If I had stayed there longer, I probably would have gotten far fewer matches.
• At home, for better or worse, most of the dates I go on are from apps. I want to do more night game, but my logistics for night game aren't great, because my apartment is a 15-min walk (5 min Uber?) away from the party area. That is an ongoing battle in my head: I want to approach at night to get higher quality girls than the apps, but the apps with logistics are so much easier (I have good date spots near my place I use when inviting girls out, but they aren't good for meeting new girls). As far as day game, I live in a "car city", so doing daytime approaches is pretty sparse. I've thought about frequenting different grocery stores, to chat up girls. I'm curious how other guys have overcome this challenge.
• I figured out a solid way to deal with "do you have an Instagram?". Just say "no" or "don't have". If they jive with that, great, continue. If they don't or it's a problem for them, say oh well and move on. Another approach is to build out your Instagram as a dating profile, effectively. Other internet seducers talk about this and do it. I haven't done this, and generally don't want to, but I don't doubt that it works for getting dates with attractive, normal women (rather than e-thots, OF girls, aspiring influencers).

 

[gameboy]

• I spent A LOT of time during the day on this vacation trying to coordinate these dates, from talking on the app, to getting the number and coordinating over text, to following up to try to meet up. Point being, it took a lot of time to set them up, it's not like I just poof had a bunch of dates lined up.

I can imagine! Makes sense with all the dates you got.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date the other night.

We met up at a bar. Talked. Had some mood increases. Some compliance, but not a ton. Walked. Invited home. She said she had to get home because it was late and the weekend would be better. Said she would text. Walked her to her car and left.

I didn’t have as good posture as I wanted during the date. Strong body posture. Sitting for long periods of a day can hurt your posture. I made sure to walk for an hour after work, as movement helps. But my posture still was not the best, and I think that didn’t help.

My prediction is that she will not meet up again, despite saying she wanted to. But, we’ll see.

Also, she was the kind of girl who I asked what she liked to do in her free time, and the answers were “spa, facials, rooftop lounges.” I need to work on empathizing with these kinds of girls. Because I find myself maybe judging them when they say stuff like this. I need to spend some time empathizing with girls who do “self-care” a lot in their free time. It is just sort of foreign to me. I never knew a woman growing up who did self-care, spas, and lounging on rooftops. I need to empathize with why a girl would do this stuff. Humanize.


Let's try to analyze things according to the VAC framework from Hector's video.

Value: This is hard to tell. I've written a bit about having good posture, and that is one of the primary value pieces I'm working on. I have decent or good style, body composition, etc. I believe my value is somewhat good. It's hard to be objective, though.
Attainability: I'm not sure how to make this work, necessarily. When I talk to girls, my goal is to find out things that make them interesting and cool, and appreciate them, because I like finding out what makes someone cool or unique. This seems like a step in the right direction. I do touch, more so when the girl is sitting close. My voice is not harsh, and not overly analytical/logical, so that seems good. I know one guy who does have a bit of a harsh voice and a sort of aggressive default facial expression. He has a commanding voice. But it can seem like he is judging, or won't be nice. Point is, I don't do that, I don't think, so that is good. I have attentive facial expressions, to show I'm actually listening to someone, without seeming over eager, I hope.
Compliance: This is where a lot of my focus goes. That is, I'm trying to get her involved, and investing in terms of telling me about herself, plus doing things for me, showing me her jewelry, and moving around. This is almost what I think of as "game" - the process of actually running a seduction or pickup.

Attainability is a weird one. I think sometimes when the girl is somewhat more attractive, I feel some sort of auto rejection in myself. Hector mentions this in the video. She doesn't seem attainable. So I don't ask her home. This goes along with being far away physically. When she is far away physically, it makes it feel like inviting her home would be a crapshoot. Sure, I almost always ask, sometimes it works and sometimes not. But the point is, I'm more or less relying on a vague sense of timing, rather than seeing a signal and responding to it.

For example, with deep diving, I feel like I have a bit of a feel of this, so that I know when it's time to move onto sexual topics. I still don't know how to do sexual topics very well, and usually just touch her more and have her show me her jewelry, and sometimes talk about tattoos. But anyway, the signal of moving onto sexual topics is after we've talked about maybe 2 deep dive things that seem substantive. Then you can move onto sexual topics. For sexual topics, I'm sure I will develop a similar 2-topic thing. Doing two substantive sexual topics, then move onto more closeness/downshift. I suppose, then she gets quiet, and is deciding. Then you can pull. This follows the stages from Chase's article Trajectory of a Successful Date.

With the girl above, after a while, she did seem to get quieter. Is this the time to pull? I usually interpret this as her needing to get home. Sometimes the girl starts to look antsy. I interpret this as either she wants to spend time alone, or she has to go home. Or both! By the way, with girls you meet later on a weeknight, I should probably focus on trying to pull faster, just to give us enough time. If I wait longer, even if she likes me, often she'll say she has to get home. Other times, I've slept with the girl, and she has to leave right away, to get home. Point being, you have to move fast!!!

Back to value, attainability, and compliance. When it comes to process, I want to be able to recognize the intermediate steps, so, for example, I know if she's ready to be invited home. Maybe I will try Chase's "what do you think of me so far?... And is that good?" from the 8 questions to ask on a date article. Basically, if it's positive, it's a green light to invite her home. If not, then at least you have more information to figure how what the roadblock (value, attainability, logistics, etc). The girl the other night basically did this on me. "What do you think of (her race) girls?" "I like them. What do you think of (my race) guys?" "I like them."

You are taking their buying temperature. There are ways to do this non-verbally, as well. Like having her hand in yours, being really close physically and maybe having your hand on her leg and hers on yours. More intimate touch. But verbally, this is what I want to work on, because oftentimes the two of you are too far away physically to touch much. Still, though, I like being able to touch, because it creates a vibe, so I want to figure out how to consistently and effectively get close.

Although, if girls I find attractive will go home with me without much or any touch, I'd be up for that too. I just have to practice using the verbals to make that happen. My hesitancy about using verbals is that it seems less smooth. It's too obvious and uncouth. Then again, this needn't be rocket science, and if it works then that seems good too.

So I need to work on the sexual topics stage, as well as taking buying temperature. It's funny, I feel more comfortable asking a girl home than I do taking her buying temperature. But, that's just because I have done one and haven't done the other much. Practice makes comfortable.

More thoughts on compliance:
Many of my successful seductions came when we moved around. We meet at a spot outside a bar, we got to a different bar instead, we walk some, I invite her back. This feels mostly natural. But if you don't have a lot of time (which is often the case with midweek dates), I would want to condense or simplify or speed it up. Instead of just bar->home. I wonder if I can make a consistent repeatable process of logistics that make it work well, utilizing the compliance of moving, that is still fast and natural. Another way to accomplish compliance is having her do little things for you, like giving you a napkin or whatnot. All this adds up. There are million things you can do.

 

[bobbyb112]

Following up on the date in the last post:

I texted to set something up for the weekend. She responded with a long text saying she didn't feel any chemistry, didn't like that I chose a place close to my place, and didn't like that I tried to invite her back to my place. I attribute most of this to auto-rejection.

There was another girl the other week, who I was texting with to set up a date. She said she was going to college 40 minutes away, and didn't have a car, so maybe we could meet near her. I said we could, but how would she get to me longer-term if we were seeing each other? She got all bent out of shape, saying how it had worked with other guys, and I wasn't being considerate of her, and she wasn't a "challenge" person, whereas I was. I was just thinking, if she can't get to me, how can we date? It's her problem. I merely asked how it would work, and she blew up on me, and said not to text her. Frankly, this seems like auto-rejection. I'm guessing, although I don't have more info, that she took it as a slight that I didn't want to drive 40 minutes to her, without having a way to get to me in the future. This is bothersome to me, because the problem was purely logistical. But she seemed to auto-reject nonetheless. I wonder if or how I could've handled this to get a better outcome. I don't want to drive 40 minutes for a first date, no. So I guess there is not much you can do.

With the girl this week, I can potentially see how it would be frustrating for her to drive far during the week. I wouldn't want to do it. However, 1. I told her the city I lived in 2. I proposed a place and she agreed 3. the place I proposed is cooler than where she lives, it's her problem she lives in the middle of nowhere. It seems to come back to auto-rejection.

As far as inviting her back to my place, I don't even see what she is saying. I guess her thinking is, why would he invite me back if we didn't have chemistry? Or, maybe she could be trying to shame me, although she didn't say that, so I don't want to put words in her mouth. Again, it comes back to the chemistry.

Back to the root: chemistry. And auto-rejection. I wrote the other day, I thought that I messed up because I think I judged her somehow. I'm trying to pinpoint how or when. But, I was maybe in auto-rejection myself, trying to protect my ego because she was a bit more attractive than other girls I've been out with. Thus, I didn't act quite as into her, etc.

Going back even more, I wonder if the first moment of seeing her in person hurt. Basically, we were meeting in front of a bar. I stood on the street. I sort of knew where she was coming from. I looked at some plants, because I like doing that. I looked down at them, waiting for her to come. I saw her, and looked back at the plants, because I wanted to. Then she came closer, and I turned to her. The point is, maybe I should act more "confident" in meeting her. Smiling, going right up to her, etc. It is more confident. And, gets me more excited in my own body. Tricking yourself into being excited. Or being "on", as opposed to just sleep walking through.

Also, having good posture. Especially after sitting down all day. The thing about posture, too, is that when you have weak posture, you are less confident. You feel less confident, so you auto-reject yourself. So you are defensive towards the girl. So she auto-rejects. And it's no bueno. So, that is another reason to make sure to have good posture.

Another element, it was later at night, on a weeknight. All else being equal, going later can give you less energy, so you aren't as confident, and all that. I don't love going on dates later at night. I've shifted my sleep schedule so I wake up later and go to bed later. This helps. But that is probably an excuse, and the other stuff is more important.

Also, I didn't work out at all on the day of the date. Working out usually makes you feel better, get endorphins, feel better, perform better. I lift weights, so I feel the need for rest days. However, I don't feel as good overall on those rest days, because I'm not getting the endorphins. Maybe I could exercise in another way, to get endorphins, without lifting. Zone 2 cardio, perhaps? I even changed my workout pattern to lift 4-5 days a week, instead of 2, so that I could have more confidence on dates. Funny. But it does seem to help with confidence and happiness and all that.

Maybe I should work out every day. And do it in the morning, before work, so you get endorphins all day.

Another thing to do is to de-value her looks. This is true in general. De-value her physical appearance, so you can focus on her as a person.

The smirking, I believe, did help. That is, even with the auto-rejection that turned into defensiveness, it still felt like an alright date overall. Which just shows, the better your baseline gets, the better it is overall, even if you don't close. The better your fundamentals are, the better it'll be overall.

Another element I've been thinking about is talking to younger (say 21-26 yo) girls versus older (27-32+). The younger girls seem to care more about passion, going after your dreams, and creative, exciting things. Whereas older, they become more "practical", for lack of a better word. With younger girls, you have to be stronger to keep their attention. Overall, you could say are more flighty. This makes sense, though. You have to be tighter in your fundamentals, to get girls with tighter bodies.

Another element I've been thinking about is "masculine essence" or "masculine presence". This is some sort of energy you inhabit, which comes across as masculine. Girls respond to it with their feminine. So, question is, what is this presence and how do you tap into it? I think exercise helps a bit. it is calming the body, and gets you into your body. So you can be still, and breathe. It is calmness. Like a gorilla looking out over the savanna and breathing slowly and quietly. It is in it's masculine presence, even though it is not "doing" anything other than standing and looking. Exercise is good for this.

I want to do a better job empathizing with certain types of girls. Young girls, in that they like drama and excitement and so forth. Girls who like pampering themselves and luxury items and status things. There have been a few girls I've met that are like this, having expensive clothes, bags, saying they like spas, rooftop lounges, and the "ritzy" area of town. This is not like anyone I grew up with, so I shall attempt to empathize, for a moment.

These girls, like most people in general, are insecure. They aren't sure of their place in the world, and of their status in society. When they buy nice things, pamper themselves, or hang out in ritzy areas, they feel like they've "made it". Maybe someone sometime made them feel "less than", and as a result they worked to have the nicer things in life. They want to signal how high-status they are. Maybe it was a bully in school, a parent, something on TV they took to heart, or something. They want to feel like they've "made it", by having nice things etc. They are status goods. They want to feel like they belong. At some level, I want the same thing. In general, I want more money, so I can, say, go on a cool vacation without having to think twice about paying for conveniences.

That is all pretty standard. I guess my next viewpoint is how, sure, everyone wants that stuff. But I grew up where the people who had money, didn't flaunt it. Only the people who didn't have money "cared" about showing it off, or pampering themselves. Besides the fact that spending money on luxury handbags means you then don't have money, it just seems tacky.

So...

What I can do next time is maybe deep dive around that. If I'm screening for a compatible person, I have to find out why she feels the need to buy or do luxury things. And maybe for a long-term relationship we aren't compatible. But for pickup/seduction purposes, I wonder what a good way to think about all this is. Maybe I should just pivot to better conversational topics, like actual hobbies. Or maybe I should go to a spa to see what it's like. Something other than silently judging her. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

Another thing, when I'm coordinating to meet up with a girl, and I'm not sure if she's going to come or not, that can be annoying. Sometimes I think I go into a little bit of auto-rejection about that. For example, the girl is sparsely communicating. I think to myself "oh well, I guess she isn't coming," and sort of go into defensive self-protection mode. Then, she texts saying "I'm on my way." I get ready and go. But am still kind of closed off, because I had previously closed myself up a little bit to avoid being disappointed if she didn't show up.

What is the solution to this? I guess it is to recognize when it happens, and just be open or honest with yourself about whether or not she will come. Or, don't get so invested before she comes out. Of course, this effect is exacerbated when I'm having a slow day at work, and have too much time to kill thinking to myself about what could or couldn't happen. The solution there is to stay busy, thinking and doing other things. That seems like a good thing, in general, being busy, and being busy with other things.

 

[bobbyb112]

I had a date the other night.

We got drinks. Vibed. Talked. Got closer. What I noticed about this one was getting closer as we talked. She didn't move away, and kept eye contact for a while. There was also a point where the conversation died down, and we both just looked at each other. I talked for a little more, then made my moves to bring her back. I was sort of surprised, because the conversation was not super sexual, nor too crazy with the deep diving. But I guess perfect game isn't always needed. She was new to town, which is a positive sign.

I pulled using a sort of two-step pull I've been trying lately. What I do is at the bar say hey lets go walk outside. We do that, then walking, I have the pull line for back to my place. This is nice because you can get some compliance before asking her home. You've moved once (assuming you meet up at the bar and stayed there for the conversation). So, it gives you an intermediate step, which gains compliance. Also if she says no, you can just walk around some. Plus, I just like walking. Sitting at a bar for more then around 30 minutes I start to get restless. I want to move. However, it requires the weather to be nice out. But where I am, it is warm enough a majority of the year, so it works.

We kissed, and closed the deal. Afterwards, she pretty much immediately said I have to go to my car, and got dressed to leave. I'm curious, does this mean anything positive or negative for turning her into an FWB, or otherwise seeing each other again? It seems like a good number of girls want to leave pretty much immediately after sex. Note, the session seemed decent. We went say 25 minutes. I suppose girls just have to get home on weekday. But still, it's kind of funny when they just immediately want to leave. Is there something I need to do after having sex to increase my chances of seeing her again?

During the day, I kind of thought to myself, I'm not super into her, she's not showing too many signs necessarily, so I don't want to risk rejection by asking her home later. Maybe I will just have a good friendly conversation, then not try to pull, and part ways. But then I thought, you have to show interest, by getting close and touching, otherwise it won't go anywhere. So I did, and she got closer as well. I guess the lesson here is, girls are probably just as scared of rejection as men. In fact, way more. So, she doesn't want to show too much interest first. So, you as the man have to do it first, and see if she reciprocates. This is the dance. Two steps forward, one step back.

Many times, I've gotten into situations where the girl is far away. I get concerned that she isn't interested, so I don't try to get close. I auto-reject in my mind. Then I act like it, and she auto-rejects in her mind too. Then, you continue talking, but there is little vibe. Maybe you get more compliance like going for a walk, and invite her home, but she says not because you two have been disconnected for a while. The first real "risky" part of the interaction, I would say, is when you go from deep diving to getting closer. This is showing interest, more than just friendliness. You're showing romantic interest. Thus, there can be hesitation on your part. But, that is what we are here for, to move things forward. So get close and show interest you must.

 

[Higher]

I have the pull line for back to my place

Curious, what is your pull line?