Journal

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date today.

We met at the train station. Walked to get coffee. Sat for a little. Then walked to park and sat and talked. I invited her back, but she said no, and that she wasn't interested. We left.

I practiced some things that were good. For example, looking out of the corner of my eyes, for a bit, I did. This helps you come across sexier. I also teased her about something ambitious, which associates you with ambition. I tried to have a sexy voice, although it sounded too soft at times, which we will come back to. I had her meet me at the train station, so we could move together to the coffee shop, then to the park. I planned it to have multiple places to move along the way, to get compliance and movement. For posture, I kept a straight back for a part of it, although this is always a bit of a mystery to me, because it's like, if my back is straight, then it looks like too much and it's try hard. If I slouch, it's not enough, and it comes across as weak. So I'm not sure where the happy medium is.

For what I was missing that made it not work, I think it is was 1. not smiling upon first meeting her and 2. talking too quietly. They kind of go together. Because talking loudly is dominant, at least at first. Smiling, acting happy to see her, is just good socializing, and lowers her guard. Something like that. At least the talking louder part is important, I think. I was in a pretty introverted head space, having thought through some things all morning. You want to switch out of that, to be more extroverted, and ready to be "dominant" socially, or at least talk loudly.

Along with that is eye contact. I'm not sure how to get eye contact, when she is standing next to you. That is another question. But I guess the first step is to talk loudly, to have her turn towards you. Then you can use your strong eye contact.

Funnily enough, the loud bar environment last night helped me have a louder voice, because you can't be too quiet if the music is sort of loud. But today during the daytime, my voice was too soft. So, speak louder. Also, touch early and often, which sort of goes with speaking louder, and strong eye contact. It is all ways of being dominant physically, which turns her on and makes her want to submit to you.

Something I did good, I mentioned nakedness/nudity a handful of times in the conversation. This is good, this is something I've been working on, to associate myself with sexy things like nakedness. I think I said at least 4 or 5 different things. I don't know if they "landed" as sexy frames or topics, because of the lack of the other stuff. But still, this is a technique I've been working on implementing, so I'm glad I had it in there, a handful of times.

Items to work on are:
- Good straight back posture (always!)
- Sexy purring voice (sexy)
- Corner of eyes eye contact (sexy)
- Slipping nakedness into the conversation (sexy)
- Loud voice (dominant)
- Touch, early and often (dominant)
- Plan out movement if possible, multiple locations (compliance)
- Smiling upon seeing her (basic social grace)

 

[OldGuy]

Good posture, such as straight back, should become your new normal, used all the time, even when alone, not just to impress women.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

We met at bar. Went in. Sat and talked. Didn't even end up getting drinks. I eventually went and got a water. Sat and talked. Eventually it got boring. I said it was getting late, after about an hour. We left.

This one was funny. She was sort of attractive, but also overweight. 28 years old. She had a very personable personality, like the kind of girl who is great at asking small talk questions at roof parties. On the one hand, I admire her sociability. On the other hand, it is very surface level, and doesn't lead to connection in conversation.

The conversation sort of got off track when I asked what she did for fun. She was like uhh, nothing, hang out with friends. Eventually I found out that meant get home after work and watch reality TV shows with her roommate. Or on the weekend, go out to rooftop parties with her friends. You could say this girl is a very fit-in-with-the-crowd type girl. Very sociable, and clued into popular culture, I guess.

I don't even thing this is a bad thing, necessarily. I just am not sure how to vibe with these girls. Like, "i go out with friends". Cool. So does everyone else. "I watch reality TV with my roommate". Cool. You are a couch potato.

That being said, she was very sociable and engaging, you could say, with her voice, and facial expressions. Her voice even had a little bit of a sexy purr. Which I like, because as I have said in previous posts, I like when girls have sexy and attractive voices and mannerisms. This girl had a little bit of that, which is good. Her voice also had a little bit of that rhaspiness, which you get from going out, drinking, partying, and trying to yell over loud music. I, personally, don't like this, because I don't like girls who party that much. It just seems coarse. It seems masculine, because it is aggressive to yell that loud, and guys do it.

But again, to empathize with these girls, they are highly social, generally emotionally aware and socially savvy, and generally enjoyable to be around. So maybe I just need to spend some time empathizing with them, and the things they do, like I am right now, to learn to enjoy them as people more.

With these overweight girls, like this one, I didn't really feel like even attempting to bring her home. Why? Because, eh. It's just not worth it. I should, could, would have, for experience. But still, c'mon. I didn't even want to try to bring her back. But alas, maybe I should have asked, for the practice.

She also sat really far away on the bench. I'm like, come closer so I can see your earrings. She "what, so you can kiss me?" I said "you wish, so presumptuous", or something like that. I don't even know if I would have wanted her to come closer. But hey, like I said, I did generally enjoy her personality. It's just that she was overweight.

I don't understand who taught girls how to converse with a man. For example, if she asks boring, logical questions, like where did you go to college, where did you move from, etc. This is classic boring guy conversation. And girls do it too. Yea, verily, girls are not social savants who are good at building deep connections, or leading a conversation. So you must do it, as the man.

I will say though, that one time I did go on a date with a girl when I was visiting another country. Although she was 29, she said she was a former model and beauty pageant contestant, or some such beauty-industry stuff. She basically deep-dived me about my hobbies, asking if I was a pro. Looking interested. Acting interested. I was like, this is what good seduction feels like. With social seduction skills like those, she should have been married to a rich guy. I wonder what her story was. AND she was a beautiful former model. Was I being set up for something? All that happened was we got a drink, and she declined my invite back to where I was staying. I don't know what her full story was. But THAT is how you deep dive. And it shows that women can converse well, too, and make guys feel very connected in a deep-dive way, which is different from a sexiness attraction.

My point is, this girl should teach all girls all over the world how to converse with a man, make him feel a connection, and want to date them. Even if, as a girl, you were getting attention from the kind of guys you wanted, this would take what you could "catch" up a notch. Just like it does for guys with girls. All women could take their options up a lot if they learned how to converse well, as opposed to saying "where did you go to school" and "how long did you live in X city?". Same with guys.

I guess that is instructive for me, to see what not to do. I believe my conversational ability is better than that. But it's always a work in progress. How can I listen more to other people, be more interested in them, show more interest, and build a stronger connection that way?

This girl seemed a bit interested, but she also seemed like a social butterfly type a bit, so it didn't feel like there was much more than usual, let's say. Still, I could have tried to pull, and see what happened. My guess is that she would say "I don't know you well enough". At which point I would be like "okay great, have a good night". But I wasn't feeling quite that feisty this night.

Sometimes, I get to a point in a date, sometimes earlier, sometimes later, where I say to myself, okay, I've had enough of me trying to seduce you. Now I'm going to sit here, and let you see if you can make anything happen. They can't, won't, or don't. And that's fair enough. We are the men. We must lead.

It was funny with this girl, because she seemed like she had a pretty normal social life, with people to hang out with, weekend bars to go out to, and roommates to watch reality TV shows with. You know, normal social stuff. And she ended up saying that she didn't use the apps, this was the first time she had been on a date from the app, or something like that. The point is, if you find a normal girl on an app, then it is because it is the first time she has been on an app date, and likely won't go on another. So that's interesting.

I used a voice on this date that I thought was good. Good in that it was strong, masculine, deep, purring, low-key. How do I achieve such a voice? I sort of smirk to the right side, and make my mouth a little bit slack. I guess that is just relaxing my mouth and face. But it works, and makes me feel powerful, cool, relaxed, somewhat suave, nonchalant, etc. A lot of good things. So I want to keep using this tone of voice.

It's actually interesting seeing a girl, or person of any gender, who can emote and use their emotions, but isn't capable of asking non-boring questions. So it's like, that is better than someone can can't do either, neither talk emotionally nor ask good questions. This is like you run of the mill boring guy. So being able to talk emotionally but not ask interesting questions is a step above, but not the best. Best is being able to talk emotionally, and ask good questions. Then there is not much emotion, but good questions. That is also a good combo. Because, as we know, people love being asked questions about themselves. So, I want to continue to develop my ability to ask good questions. And sexualize.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date the other afternoon.

We met at a bar. Went in and sat and talked. Eventually I touched more, and she lit up every time I touched. I used sexy corner of the eyes eye contact. I invited her back, not know if she would say yes. She said yes. We went back. Kissed. Clothes came off pretty quickly. She said she didn't want to have sex that night, though, when I went to get a condom. So I just fingered her, then she sucked me off. We put clothes back on, and watched TV for a little. Then she left.

This one was interesting. Going in the bar, we sat down. Then I realized that we would have to go to the bar to get drinks, so we both walked there and ordered. I think this was good movement, because she is coming with me and we are "moving together".

We sat at 90 degrees, on two sides of a rectangular table. Frankly, she felt kind of far away. On the other hand, I like this booth, which is near the back of the venue. I think it is the seating that I have pulled the most from. I think it works somewhat well becuase it is in the back, in a booth that feels a little bit cordoned off, and since it's in a back corner, there isn't any foot traffic going by to distract us. Also, the way we sit, the girl faces sort of towards a back wall. This helps keep the conversation on us, as opposed to any distractions in the background.

One challenge that sometimes comes up is if they are playing sports loudly on the TV's, which they sometimes do. On this day, they were playing just music, and I think the TV's were off. Unfortunately, when the TV's are on and loud and bright, it makes it much more challenging to talk, and seduce. This was a Sunday late afternoon, though, so the TV's weren't on.

We talked. I touched, including just social stuff, on her arm, shoulder, then tap on leg. I moved closer to her, when she showed me a picture on her phone. I moved back, though, because awkward in the booth to sit at that angle. What I noticed was that every time I touched her, she smiled and lit up. This was definitely very encouraging. Plus, I think this is the first time that I've actually noticed a girl get happier or lighten up when I touch her. Not that they haven't done it before, but more that I actually noticed it this time. That was cool. Because I thought to myself, oh, she actually likes when I move things forward by touching more.

Somehow we started holding hands, and she easily held hands. We did so under the table, as well. I looked out of the corners of my eyes, giving sexy eye contact. I thought about it in the moment, to do that. But it also felt very natural, because it's like, I'm sexy, we know each other, this is what people who are attracted to each other do. I also started using more of a bedroom voice. Low and slow and purring. It's hard to tell if this stuff was "landing", though. The positive signs she was giving, other than the fact that she wasn't leaving, was the smiling when I touched, and holding hands.

We got onto "sexual topics" a little bit at one point. She was talking about a santa pub crawl, and how she wore a sexy santa costume, but she couldn't show it to me, because she didn't have a picture on her phone. I said I liked St Patrick's day, having my sexy leprecon costume, or something like that. So that was a good bit of sexual topics, let's say. I could use more, though.

When I went to pull, I didn't know whether she would say yes or not. We hadn't gotten super physically close, despite the moderate toching and hand-holding, light sexy topics, and sexy eye contact, and voice tone. But she said yes, so off we went.

At home, we sat down like I do normally. I guided her mouth to mine and gave a kiss. She wanted more. I pulled back, like I usually do. Then went back in. We kissed from there, and I almost immediately started rubbing her vagina over her pants, because she was totally into it. I put her hand on my dick and had her rub there. We took off shirts, then her bra. With pants, she said do you want to go to the bed. I said yeah. We took off pants, and went there. I fingered her, both of us totally naked.

I reached on my nightstand to get a condom, and she said "not tonight" or something. Okay, I thought, and put the condom to the side. I fingered her more. She was quite wet. Eventually I reached for the condom again, and she said the same thing. Okay, I thought. Eventually she sucked me off and I finished. We put clothes back on, and watched a show, until she left.

This last-minute resistance was interesting. I mean, it was quite "last-minute", eh? Like, fully naked in my bed, with my penis 2 inches from her vagina. But I guess this is what Chase means, in some article, when he said how different girls "walls" come up at different points. For example, this girl's wall came up not when I went for the kiss, or rubbing her vagina, nor taking off her shirt, bra, pants, and panties. But when it came time to actually penetrate. Interesting. I guess that can happen.

I remember one girl a while ago who did something similar, getting totally naked in my bed, and then saying she didn't want to have sex. Like, okay. I remember another girl who did this a while ago. We got totally naked and kissing and whatnot, and then didn't want to have sex. So I guess I have faced something like this a few times before. Usually, they resist or leave before that point, or are fully ready to go by the time we have clothes off.

As far as my LMR-busting methods go, frankly, I don't have much experience busting through LMR, because usually when we get to that point, they have either bowed out already, or are ready to go. So that's why I say I haven't dealt with much LMR. If anything, it's more like middle-minute-resistance! Like the middle of the date, or when at home. You get my point. So, I didn't have many tricks in my bad for true last-minute resistance.

I guess I could have just kept fingering her, and having her do stuff to me, until maybe she changed her mind. Just as a fun way to spend time, that seems like a good course of action, too. Just pleasure each other, until she is so into it and overwhelmed by desire, that she is like, put it in me.

So, a number of good things about this date. Seeing her reactions, and getting reactions from me doing things, was eye opening to see. Like when I touched her. Using the sexy eye contact and voice, changed the vibe to sexual. The movement, with her walking with me to and from the bar, was helpful, I believe.

Another thing that probably helped, before the date, I was seeing another girl. So I had just come from having sex twice already. So by the law of "girls can smell when other girl is on you", maybe that helped me, too. You're never quite sure how these things work. But maybe it did.

For next time, continue to do all of that. Particularly when it comes to sexiness, use touch, look out of the corners of your eyes, cute and sexy look, and eventually switching to bedroom voice. Sexual topics is also one to work on, like nakedness, sprinkling that into conversation.

 

[theReason]

Pardon me but I have a suggestion for this.

It doesn’t sound like you did “the knee thing.”

Where you grind your knee into her pussy while you make out with her. Like in chess, keeping your body between her spread legs is a strategic position against LMR, but the “check” is kneeing her pussy. It’s so common and universal that even tiktokers talk about it, so if you don’t deploy it when logical to, you could come off as sexually inexperienced.

Hopefully that helps you.

 

[bobbyb112]

It doesn’t sound like you did “the knee thing.”

Where you grind your knee into her pussy while you make out with her. Like in chess, keeping your body between her spread legs is a strategic position against LMR, but the “check” is kneeing her pussy. It’s so common and universal that even tiktokers talk about it, so if you don’t deploy it when logical to, you could come off as sexually inexperienced.

That's an interesting tactic, could be useful. Chase has an article about this called Pussy-Centric Escalation. The jist is that as you kiss and escalate, but she doesn't want to go further, keep getting incidental stimulation on her vagina, in this case by having your knee against her vagina. This seems indeed like a useful technique.

As for LMR in general, I looked back, and there are a ton of articles on it. Basically, LMR can be prevented, by doing the earlier steps better, like sexualizing, setting discretion frames, building connection, basically everything involved in good game. So that is my goal, to make everything before the bedroom better, so that you get less LMR (or, you know, her just leaving).

For this instance, I could have taking 1 step back, 2 steps forward. I'm not sure what that means when you are fingering her naked in your bed. Do I suggest putting clothes back on? Not sure. At some point, I want to read through all the articles on LMR, of which there are many. And, of course, do the steps beforehand better, so that it doesn't come up.

For example, I could have gone 10% slower during the escalation than she wanted to, per one of Chase's article. I think I jumped into, for example, she said do you want to go to the bed. That is good, but also me leading the speed is good. And, just going 10% slower than she wants to, so she fights for it more. I could have done that.

but the “check” is kneeing her pussy

What is the "check"? Like you start kissing, then knee her pussy, and if she 1. likes it 2. doesn't leave 3. doesn't tell you to stop, then you can proceed? What am I looking for when I knee her pussy, and when would I do it? Would like to hear more detail.

 

[theReason]

I mean like “check” as in “checkmate.” You make sure your body stays between her legs as a strategic position, but to make use of that strategic position, you put your knee on her pussy.

I don’t mean “to check for anything,” but if you’re looking for a (semantically similar but functionally unrelated) “checklist:” you do it when making out with her on a horizontal surface in isolation, and it will make her moan and get really horny, and it will facilitate you in getting her clothes off (which you will help her do/do to her while you continue to do this to her pussy) and facilitate you in overriding any concerns of her rational brain.

Personally I think a lot of the “LMR-busting tactics” unrelated to physical escalation are kind of bullshit—if you got her alone and kissing you, you’ve ran a good seduction, now run a good and fiery escalation, and you get the sex.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I guess I could have just kept fingering her, and having her do stuff to me, until maybe she changed her mind. Just as a fun way to spend time, that seems like a good course of action, too. Just pleasure each other, until she is so into it and overwhelmed by desire, that she is like, put it in me.

I do think that’s the best way to go about it. If you have reached the point where you are both naked and enjoying yourselves, I feel it is just a matter of time until she can’t handle it anymore and just wants you inside her.

At least it has worked for me, I do get LMR but generally if we end up totally naked and playing together in bed at some point sex will happen.

Unless she has some super niche idea about penetrative sex, like really wanting to stay untouched till marriage and having decided that no matter what you do, penetration is off the table.

So I believe that the point is that you don’t get up from bed and not let her finish you off in any way that is not penetrative sex.

Not that I think it’s bad to want to stop after hours of not getting there and just go do something else. But all the times I did stop and let her finish me in another way, I never slept with the girl eventually and I still feel I left something in the middle.

 

[bobbyb112]

So I believe that the point is that you don’t get up from bed and not let her finish you off in any way that is not penetrative sex.

Not that I think it’s bad to want to stop after hours of not getting there and just go do something else. But all the times I did stop and let her finish me in another way, I never slept with the girl eventually and I still feel I left something in the middle.

I definitely had this thought, that if I let her finish me off, then the "sex games" are sort of over, and the chances of sex that day, let alone ever, go down a ton. I did let her finish me off, but I was tired, so this is where I need to tough it out, next time.

 

[bobbyb112]

I just got back from a date.

We met for a drink. We went to the bar, sat down, got up to get drinks. Moved to a different spot, because some partiers were there. We sat and talked. Deep dived. Had some "sex topics", with nakedness, and sharing some stories there. Touched and held her hand, using the excuse that it was cold, which she commented on from me, actually. Touched through. Used corner of the eyes eye contact. I tried to pull. She said she had to get up early in the morning so didn't want to drink more. I waited a few mintues, then suggested watching a show and talking more. She said had to get up early. I asked how early, she said 6, I said playfully what, that's not early. She said she didn't feel comfortable going back on a first date. I said ohh okay. We sat and talked a little more. Then she said she had to leave. She paid for her drink, sending me a venmo. We left. The parting I gave her a hug, but she looked distracted.

So, some good things, and not so good things. I broke one of my rules, which was to not lean into a girl. I think I am 0 for 4000 when I lean in. Or, maybe 1 for 4000. But this time, I leaned in, to be closer to her. But I don't think it worked, as evidenced by the results. The lesson is to always sit straight up, and NEVER lean towards the girl. Ever. Never ever. That is the lesson I got from this experience.

She seemed to smile or light up when I touched her, which was good. I can't imagine smiling being a bad thing. Then again, I guess she could have been being polite. But, if a girl doesn't want you to touch or get close, then she would close off when you touched. So I think her smiling when I touched was a good thing.

The problem when you lean is, then she looks away. Whenever you lean in, she doesn't look at you. Then, when you lean back, she continues not to look at you. And then there is not connection. So, don't ever lean in. Ever.

I did other compliance things, like having her show me her necklace, and nails, which she did. I touched her arm, shoulder, arm around the shoulders, on the leg. She seemed to enjoy it. Although, her body was sort of facing away. Or, straight towards the bar, whereas I was angled towards her. I don't like this, because it makes it seem like you are more into her than she is to you.

Never, ever, face towards a girl, not lean in. Never. Face straight ahead in the seat, and just look to the side. Never angle your body towards a girl, nor lean towards her. Never. Don't do it. Don't ever angle other than straight forward, nor lean into a girl. Never.

She seemed into it enough. I'm not sure what other compliance or investment I could have gotten while at the bar. One is adventurous frame. I could have gotten this. Have her qualify herself on being adventurous. I didn't do that this time, although I have other times.

Don't ever, ever, ever, face angled towards a girl, nor lean in. Ever.

It can be tough to pull on a weeknight. Actually, I just ran a report for pulls and sex conversion by day of the week. It looks like Wednesday is actually the worst day of the week for bringing a girl home. The best days are Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday are in the middle. Depending on how you categorize them. That is for date-to-bring-home. For date-to-sex, it looks like Sunday and Monday, then Thursday, then the rest fascinating. I'm not sure what to take away from this, or change about my game. There was a time not too long ago when I swore I would never do Friday dates, because they never seemed to convert. But looking at the numbers, it looks about average for Friday. Maybe I should avoid doing dates on Wednesday nights, because they convert the lowest, according to the numbers. But they aren't really statistically significant, and it isn't THAT much lower anyway, so I won't avoid Wednesday or any other day. It's cool to see these numbers, though, by day of the week.

Sit with straight back posture. Do it. Do it. Do it. This is the only way to ever seduce. Never lean in. Never angle your body towards her at all. Sit straight. Face forward. Never lean in.

You can see what my takeaway for myself tonight is Posture is a funny thing. How does one sit with straight back posture, all day, without their bony butt hurting? My boney butt hurts in the seat if I sit straight up and down. So I have to slouch. How do people sit so their bony butts don't hurt in the seat? Keep in mind, I do leg day at the gym, so my butt doesn't look boney.

Straight back posture is a common challenge, for me, during the workday. This is something to keep an eye on, and improve.

I could have maybe teased her more. I think I did a number of times. Could have more.

It's too bad, because I know that she won't want to come out again, will backwards rationalize it as us not having chemistry, and I will never see her again. I might text her 2 days after anyway, to see. But again, backwards rationalize, and she probably won't.

With the girl from 3 days ago, I texted her saying hey let's meet up again. She responded after 2 days, saying that she was busy the rest of this week, but should be more free next week. Will be disinterestedly interested to see if she meets up again. You could read her text as not really being interested. Or maybe she is really busy (false).

Sit up straight. Perfectly straight. That is the only way to make a woman respect you. Sit up straight. Perfectly straight.

I did feel more in flow with my sexiness, though. The corner of the eyes eye contact has a good feel to it. It feels sexy. My cute and sexy look makes and effect, I think. There is a guy at work, who has the cute and sexy look, and also has a sexy, purring voice. He looks and sounds like he pulls. I wonder if he was into pick up, before having a wife and kids. Point is, that these things make a difference, and it works. I notice it on him. Therefore, girls notice it on you, these mannerisms.

The touch flowed well enough.

The bar was kind of loud, which I don't think helped. It wasn't too too loud, but still was rather loud. I wonder if going somewhere quieter would help. Unfortunately, I don't think quieter places exist.