Lulu's Daygame Journal (as a short, bald, and fat guy)

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Hey guys,

I have decided that I will spend a lot of time getting good at Daygame. The nature of my work puts me around dudes at all times, and the occasional girl that shows up are mostly not cute.

I'm short, fat and a racial minority. I don't have much experience sexually and connecting with women emotionally, but I have high standards and want to get beautiful girls that I can connect with. I have gotten one lay (who became my girlfriend for about 2 months) from about 50 daygame approaches previously. However, our relationship fizzled out because 1) I did not connect with her personality 2) She was pretty negative, and 3) I could not climax during sex with her (This is known as delayed ejaculation (DE), I could climax fine when masturbating).

After that I basically went back to focusing on my career 100% and stopped doing approaches. The DE thing really messed with my head because I felt like it made game pointless.

I have now decided I really need to get this part of my life handled. I am going to be doing what I can to fix DE and get back into the dating game again. I got the one date system and will be using it as the primary theory behind my approaches. I'm excited to get started again to see how it goes.
 
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Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 1:

I need to get my approaching muscles back in place again. I drive to a mall and practice situational openers and indirect openers with ONLY girls that I feel a deep attractive pull from.

Girl #1 (Grocery Store). Cute and slim girl, no mask on. I see her holding a bottle of tea and I had a similar bottle in my grocery basket. I open my asking her what she thinks about the bottle of tea since its my first time getting it. She smiles and answers with a few words, but continues to walk past me without stopping.

Girl #2 (Grocery Store). Mega cute and slim girl, 100% my type. I see her walking around with a mask on with her PARENTs in the fruits section. She seems to be advising them on how to buy groceries. I stay near her, and pick up some Bananas and put it in my grocery basket. A few minutes later, her parents get confused because they are not able to find bananas. I open her and tell her they are hidden in a different section, and she smiles at me extremely warmly. I told her it took me a while to find them too. Her parents thank me. Due to how warm she was towards me, I would actually continue to try to talk to her if she was alone, but no idea how to do so with her parents there.

Girl #3 (Clothing Store). I walk in to the womens section and look around, and ask her where the men's section is. She smiles and says its probably on a different floor level.

Girl #4 (Clothing Store). Super cute girl casually strolling with a demure body language and a tattoo on her back. I am instantly drawn to the combination of demure + tattoo which implies she's a bit of a rebel. I walk towards her and hope I am able to think of a situational/indirect opener, but I freeze and am not able to open my mouth. Later, I see her again later walking out of the store, and we actually walk together briefly for 2 seconds. Again, I am not able to think of anything to say and I didn't expect her to change trajectory after 2 seconds. I should really just open direct like I used to but I think its a combination of AA, and my mindset today was to open indirectly/situationally.

Girl #5 (Watch Store). I go in to get my watched fixed, and the girl tries to help me. She's cute so I start chatting with her more. I ask her when she gets off and if her day has been tiring. She tells me it has with a sigh of relief.

Observations:

-The hottest/cutest girls are always with either a guy friend, a girl friend, or family. I very rarely am able to find stationary people, and this makes it very inefficient. I may have to lower my standards if I don't want to walk around for 30 minutes to find 1 attractive girl to talk to.

-I feel like I am avoiding getting personal/going direct because indirect/situational feels "safer" without any social risk even to people around her. I used to do only direct and did it in the middle of crowds of people. I need to get back into this somehow. I think I am just afraid to do it right now.

-Direct also seems like a great "fallback" way for scenarios where there isn't a "context" to open situational -> Things like people just walking in the mall.

-COVID masks make it so most I am only able to judge most girls based on their body shape and body language. I am not able to see their face. Is there a solution to this?
 
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Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 2:

I go out with the intent to do a direct opener (either genuine compliment, or "are you single?").

I walk around for 1 hour but I get crippling AA. I kind of expected this would happen, since my previous situational openers have been a lot more low key, so I was kind of avoiding the issue.

Girl #1: This girl who is wearing all black enters from the side of the wall and walks alongside me (mask is on) She walks slightly ahead of me. I look at her and prepare a genuine compliment + tease in my head. The preparation itself didn't take very long -> About 5 seconds of me looking at her, and I already knew I would compliment her on how I thought her hairstyle and hairclip was very elegant, while slightly teasing her on her yellow slippers which didn't match the rest of her black outfit. However, I get crippling AA and felt self conscious to approach, as we were walking in a sea of people. She enters a shoe store and I pretend to also be going there so I enter with her (it was a unisex shoe store). I go to the opposite side of the store as her, and pretend to look at shoes. At some point, she walks over to me and where I was looking at shoes, and slightly trips herself on a chair. It was the perfect time for me to say "Whoa, are you ok?", and the thoughts even show up in my head in real-time, but I DON'T SAY IT due to AA. I get really angry and leave.

Girl #2: She was walking and talking excitedly on phone, cannot approach.

Girl #3: I am walking along the street, and she is walking towards me. There was no reason I could not approach but I did not due to AA.

Girl #4: She is sitting down in a bench. There was an ATM in front of her, so I enter her line of sight and pretend to use the ATM by putting my card inside, pressing a few buttons, etc. Afterwards, I turn around and walk on a trajectory where I pass by her. As I walk past her, she looks up at me, I turn my head slightly, and our eyes lock. 2 seconds later, I back track my steps until I was in front of her, and say "Excuse me... (she looks up). Are you single?"

She pauses for about 1-2 seconds, then gives me a smile, and says "Yes, but I am 16." (She does not look 16...). I say, "Ok, nevermind." and exit.

In general, I am pretty disappointed in myself for not being able to approach due to AA. Its kind of weird, as I feel like it was easier when I was younger to do a direct approach, because it felt like I was "young and reckless" so doing stuff like this was more congruent. Now that I'm older and more mature, it feels a bit like I'm stepping out of my boundaries.
 
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Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 3:

I drove a bit further out and found a better daygame spot, and the girls here are WAY cuter, which partially solves my "not finding someone hot enough to approach" problem.

Girl #0: We walk towards each other on the street. I look at her in the eye and she looks at me in the eye and neither of us breaks eye contact for a good 5+ seconds until we walk past each other. This is a mega strong approach invitation, but I get AA and do not approach. There was no reason not to, she was definitely my type.

Girl #1: She was standing by a bus stop, I walk up to her, and ask say "Hello... (gets her attention) Are you single?". She says no and says she's waiting for her boyfriend who was inside the building behind her. I say "nevermind", and walk away.

Girl #2: She was sitting down on a seat on her mac, next to an art event. I walk up to her and ask her if she's single. She says no, but is weirdly smiling at me. I tell her she has a great hat. She says thanks, and I walk away.

Girl #3: She is walking on the street and I walk up from behind. I wave my hand as I walk by and say "Excuse me.... (she stops) Are you single?" She says no, and starts walking forward again. She didn't smile like the other girls, so this was the most negative response I got.

GIrl #4: She is sitting in a coffee shop on her macbook and her hand on her phone. I buy a coffee, and on my way out I wave my hand to get her attention and say "Hi." She pulls out her airpods. I ask her if she's single. She says yes. I introduce myself and put my hand out, she touches my hand but it was extremely awkward since her hand was also holding her phone. She says her name, but I CAN'T HEAR HER as she's talking extremely quitely for some reason. I ask her where she's from, she says Japan. I then ask her if she's a student here, and she says yes, but again, I cannot hear her. I tell her at this point I cannot hear her, and point down to her seat where her bag was and asked if I could sit. She says her friends are coming soon and she does not move her bag. I tell her, no problem, I'd love to get a coffee with you sometime. I think she tells me no because she was shaking her head slightly. I assume it was no. I say "Ok, cool, I'll see you later" and leave. The entire time, there were a lot of people sitting around her at the coffee shop, so I think there was also a strong element of self-consciousness. For me, I was kind of high on approach addiction so it wasn't as noticeable.

Overall, finding this location was really awesome since there is no shortage of attractive young girls walking by. So that removes my excuse. That being said, its a bummer that I wasn't able to get into any conversations today.

I've also noticed that so many girls have their airpods/headphones in (this is very different from even 3-4 years ago). I don't think it works when I walk up to them and deliver an opener. I almost have to say "Excuse me..." or "Hello" or wave my hand first, and wait for them to pull out their airpods, before I deliver the actual opener. Its weird, feels like the world has changed so much so quickly.
 

bikerdaddy

Rookie
Rookie
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
3
Hey guys,

I have decided that I will spend a lot of time getting good at Daygame. The nature of my work puts me around dudes at all times, and the occasional girl that shows up are mostly not cute.

I'm short, fat and a racial minority. I don't have much experience sexually and connecting with women emotionally, but I have high standards and want to get beautiful girls that I can connect with. I have gotten one lay (who became my girlfriend for about 2 months) from about 50 daygame approaches previously. However, our relationship fizzled out because 1) I did not connect with her personality 2) She was pretty negative, and 3) I could not climax during sex with her (This is known as delayed ejaculation (DE), I could climax fine when masturbating).

After that I basically went back to focusing on my career 100% and stopped doing approaches. The DE thing really messed with my head because I felt like it made game pointless.

I have now decided I really need to get this part of my life handled. I am going to be doing what I can to fix DE and get back into the dating game again. I got the one date system and will be using it as the primary theory behind my approaches. I'm excited to get started again to see how it goes.
are you based in the US?
 

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 4:

Moved to a large big downtown city. The number of attractive girls here are abundant and I truly feel like I would be happy to take many of the top ones as my girlfriend.

I walked around my area to map out the nearby venues. Took the chance to look at each venue in depth to try to pre-generate some canned situational openers.

Venues - The clothing store, cafeteria, grocery store, and a subway network.

I find it interesting to just really absorb in the environment and start thinking of what kind of situational opener would work in which parts.

For example, in the lady skincare section, I can ask for ladies opinion on how to make my skin better (since as a dude I wouldn't know this very well).

In the jewelry section, I can ask about the female opinion on a particular piece of accessory I'm wearing.

At the grocery store, make a piece of comment on their current shopping choice.

Day 5:

Tested opening situationally/indirect for the most of the day. I've found that the open rate can be quite high depending on both, but the "vibe" feels different.

When I ask for an opinion, it feels strange when I try to transition out of it.

For example, a girl can be extremely excited giving me their opinion on my jewelry or skincare product, but then afterwards when I asked them what they are doing, they just give me one word answers. Its almost like the energy of their answers did not transfer over once I transition.

I've noticed this to be less of an issue with situational openers that quickly focus the conversations on the girl or what we're doing.

I've also found that I have an issue with approaching directly even though I could do it before. It feels like I have a belief that the best approach should be situational.

Day 6:

I continue to struggle with approaching directly. I practice a few subway indirect approaches where there is time and proximity to get into a natural conversation since we are sitting down next to each other. I try it on girls that are not that attractive... it works and I get their number. And they are responsive on text. However, I am not that interested because... they are not that attractive.

Day 7:

I tell myself I want to approach girls that are really attractive, because what is the point of learning daygame if I am not going for the really attractive girls?

I open directly on a very attractive girl on the street. She responds very lukewarm but also doesn't reject me. I ask her if she has a boyfriend - to which she responds "No... but I am very tired". I have no clue how to respond to this so I eject... but in retrospect I should've kept pushing.

Day 8:

Girl #1:
I go to a bookstore and open an attractive girl taller than me. She is reading a book on entrepreneurship -> I open teasingly with "Looking to build your empire?" and that spirals into a more relevant conversation where we get quite personal.

Interaction was around 20 minutes, and we talk about what kind of personality types we are.

Girl #2:

I see a blonde girl and make eye contact with her. She looks like a supermodel so I get approach anxiety and don't open her. However, we end up at the same subway station and I take the chance to open her "Hey, were you also walking from XXX back there?"

She says "Yes.". I say "cool, you live there?" She says yes, and then we go into a small convo. I ask her what she is up to and she tells me she is visiting her boyfriend to watch his baseball game, and that it was the qualifiers. I knew at this point she would probably not be up for a date, but I continue the conversation anyways. It feels great to be chatting with such an attractive girl, I loved every moment of it.

I still have approach anxiety for direct sets where I cannot open situationally (i.e. on the street). I see plenty of attractive girls which I am not able to open. This is making me quite angry.

Day 9:

Approach #1:

Open 2 girls who are seated next to me situationally on the subway. They get very warm and responsive to me in conversation. Turns out we come from the same city and they are going back that day. I get their IGs.

Approach #2:

I open an attractive girl indirectly in the grocery store, but was not able to transition it out of it. I find that sometimes I say things that are not conducive to moving things forward, and the girl would just say "Ok."

Walked around for 2-3 hours without being able to open anyone direct. Still have a mental block on this for some reason.

Approach #3:

I see a girl with a dog, and I walk up to her, and say "Excuse me..." Before I could even continue, she tells me her dog will bite me. The dog is completely harmless though and is looking at my friendly, so I say to her "Oh really?" She then walks away and says "I have a boyfriend.". I find this encounter extremely strange because I never even said a single word beyond "Excuse me".

Approach #4:

On my subway ride home, I see an extremely attractive girl sitting across from me. We make eye contact a few times, but she was too far away from me for me to open. Turns out we get off at the same stop, and this is when I walk up to her (once we're away from the crowd), and I pre-open her by tapping her elbow, and then opening direct on her. She responds very positively, we talk for a few minutes, then I ask her if she has a boyfriend, and she says "I do, unfortunately". The conversation ends here.

I'm going to stop asking girls if they have boyfriends from now on as I don't see there being a point of it.
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
773
I feel like it was easier when I was younger to do a direct approach, because it felt like I was "young and reckless" so doing stuff like this was more congruent. Now that I'm older and more mature, it feels a bit like I'm stepping out of my boundaries.

I've been feeling exactly the same lately and thought I was the only one. I've started slowing down my movements a lot more and it feels more congruent to where I am now. Slight things like slowing down the jog back to her with a street stop, slowing down my approach to her when she's stationary (coming off more powerful as a side effect). Only problem with this now is it can take more time to get to her and in a situation like a street stop, you may not get to her in time.

I don't know if I'm overthinking this or whether other guys feel this too the older they get?
 

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
I've been feeling exactly the same lately and thought I was the only one. I've started slowing down my movements a lot more and it feels more congruent to where I am now. Slight things like slowing down the jog back to her with a street stop, slowing down my approach to her when she's stationary (coming off more powerful as a side effect). Only problem with this now is it can take more time to get to her and in a situation like a street stop, you may not get to her in time.

I don't know if I'm overthinking this or whether other guys feel this too the older they get?

I have the same feeling. Whereas in my younger days I felt very congruent internally to run up and stop people, now it just feels incongruent. Maybe I need to do more inner game work or something but these days I feel a lot more calibrated with lower key, slower approaches.

Its like an internal congruency thing. And yeah, sometimes I feel like I cannot reach the girl in time before the opportunity is gone. However, this only really applies to street stops (which I also have a very difficult time doing because it feels situationally uncalibrated).
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
773
I have the same feeling. Whereas in my younger days I felt very congruent internally to run up and stop people, now it just feels incongruent. Maybe I need to do more inner game work or something but these days I feel a lot more calibrated with lower key, slower approaches.

Its like an internal congruency thing. And yeah, sometimes I feel like I cannot reach the girl in time before the opportunity is gone. However, this only really applies to street stops (which I also have a very difficult time doing because it feels situationally uncalibrated).
I think a lot of it is inner game - I mean there are still guys in their 40s that run (well slow jog) up to and stop women. I think it's just about being more smooth, not just on the approach but in the interaction. Which we should be striving for anyway.
 

Higher

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
131
I don't know if I'm overthinking this or whether other guys feel this too the older they get?

Same thing here definitely. I'm 40. Two years ago I would run up to girls, now I barely increase my walking pace. Definitely a side effect of practice too. Yeah, maybe I miss some good chances, but I feel more powerful, more in control and less invested/needy.
 
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Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Same thing here definitely. I'm 40. Two years ago I would run up to girls, now I barely increase my walking pace. Definitely a side effect of practice too. Yeah, maybe I miss some good chances, but I feel more powerful, more in control and less invested/needy.

Definitely. Running up and going direct feels like throwing a hail mary, I get reactions but not necessarily results. I feel like the more lower key you can make something, the better in daygame (guessing this is likely not true in nightgame). But its not always possible with people walking.
 

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 10:

I wake up, it is Saturday, and I tell myself I have to do 5 direct approaches.

Girl #1:

She is jogging towards me with airpods in her ears. I wave at her and say hello. She sees me, says "hello" but does not stop, and just runs by.

Girl #2:

I see her taking selfies next to the city centre. I ask her if she is ok with me taking pictures of the city next to her, she says OK.

After 20-30 seconds of taking pictures, I open her by asking her if she is a tourist. She says yes. I ask her where she is from. She says she is from Mexico. We get into a decent convo about how she is exploring the city, and we talk about the food. She seems to be dominating the conversation, and I'm just mostly commenting about her adventures. She tells me she is eating at Macdonald's, and I tease her for not trying the good food places in the city. She barely asks anything about me. At the end, she says she has to go, and I ask her if she has IG, and that we can grab food or something if she's around in the next few days, and that I will show her some good places.

Girl #3:

She is walking towards me, smoking cute asian girl. I say "Excuse me.... (she looks at me). I just saw you from over there, and I think you're really cute." She squeals a little and covers her chest with her hand. I am surprised about this reaction because I feel like she is probably the hottest girl I've approached in all month.

I ask her if she is a student, she says yes. I ask her if she went to the <University Name> in the area, she said yes. I asked her if she is from China, she says yes. I ask her if she speaks Mandarin, she says yes. At this point I have a smirk on my face because I guessed everything right.

I then ask her what she is up to. She tells me she is going to a friend's birthday party, and it looked like she wanted to start walking. I tell her "That's cool, and I know you have to go, but do you want to get coffee sometime?" She says "Sorry, I have a boyfriend." I say, "Ok, see you later".

Girl #4:

She is walking right next to me, and is looking at her pocket mirror to fix up her makeup. I tap on the elbow, and say "Hey, why are you doing that?" (and point to her mirror). She looks at me, and kind of ignores me, then walks faster.

Girl #5:

I see her at a park, and I approach her. I tell her she's cute, and she takes a step back, and with a shocked look on her face. I feel like she is not warm to be at this point, so I point to a single tree in the park that has changed color, and said,

"I was just over there and taking pictures of that tree, when I saw you :)".

She still has a neutral look at her face, but she then takes out her phone and shows a picture of her being taken under that tree. I ask her if she took it herself or if her friend took it, and she says her friend took it.

I say, "its nice". I then ask her "what are you up to?". She asks "Up to?". At this point I realize she is not very good at English, so I ask her, "I mean, what are you doing right now?". She says she is heading to the library.

I ask her, "on a weekend? Is it to study english?". She says yes.

I then see that she gets a bit fidgety. So I say, "Looks like you want to head there right now, how about we go grab a coffee sometime?" She pauses for a second, but then says "No".

I then say, "Ok, have fun."

And here's where it got weird, as we walked past each other, I saw her stop for a moment, and it seemed like she wanted to say something. But she didn't say it, and I just kept walking past her.

This was weird, but in retrospect, I think what happened was: Due to the way I asked her to go for coffee, she might have mis-interpreted my request for coffee to mean we go right now instead of her going to the library. She may have rejected that instead. When she paused, she may have been expecting me to ask her for her number. Ah well, I will never really know what happened, due to the language barrier.

I am happy that I was able to bypass AA and do the direct approaches, still feel off that none of them are panning out to a number, especially when compared to my indirect approaches.
 

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 11:

After reflecting a bit on my results from direct vs indirect, listening to SMMA by @Gunwitch, and reading threads on reality pace openers (RPOs) by @Bacchus and reading @Lofty's journal, I have decided I am going to try to hone in and focus on doing indirect properly. Up to this point, the only numbers I have been able to get have been from indirect, even though I haven't been doing it "correctly" by any means.

I read this post and spent 3-4 hours generating and reciting different RPOs for different venues.

Day 12:

I wake up and recite a few RPOs, and then move out.

Girl #1: See a cute girl at the bookstore shopping for backpacks. I open situationally with "Its interesting how this bookstore sells backpacks". This was not actually the RPO I prepared for someone reading a book, but because she kept looking at backpacks, I had to change it.

She pulled out her air pods, and asked me what I said again. I repeat the same sentence, and she says "yeah, they actually have been for a while." I then ask her a challenging question "Why do you come to a bookstore to buy a backpack? Isn't there other stores that are better for buying backpacks?"

She then tells me she actually has been looking at other places as well, but found the value to the be best for the backpack in this bookstore. I say "Interesting, so you actually thought about it strategically. I did not expect that." She says "Yup, and I also have some books in here as well I found here, and she points to her bag."

Here I actually transition to my RPO, which is "You know whats interesting? With all the technology available in 2022, we can basically have any book at the click of a button. Yet here we are... We chose to get up, step out the door, and show up at a physical bookstore."

She then says "Yeah, it is interesting, so why did you show up?"

I say (RPO part 2) "You know, there is just something about technology I want to get away from, since I'm always on my computer when I'm at home." She says she totally understands, and says she feels the same way. I ask if she lives and works in the area, and she says she does. She then asks me what I do, and she hooks hard talking about work (personally, I hate this). She tells me she is trying to go into the area of work I am in, and at some point talks about her husband.

At this point, I am pretty unengaged, because I feel like the frame is again on business, and she also mentions having a husband. But for practice's sake, I continue to steer the conversation to travelling, to doing what we love for work, and about life in the downtown area we are in. But after a while, she would ask about my work again. After a while, I feel like leaving, so I start hinting at it with my body language. She then says "You know what, can I have your Linkedin? We should grab coffee sometime, since you're here." I say, "sure", and at this point she pulls out her phone and adds me. Its funny, I did not even have to pull out my phone. The frame was completely flipped.

Girl #2: Walk into the cooking section, and see a cute girl. I say "Excuse me" to her and walk past her to grab a book. She moves out of the way, becoming aware of me in the process. After flipping through a few pages and picking up a few books. I glance over at her, and ask her, "Is that a good book?". She says something about getting back into cooking after a long break, and wanting to look for something novel. I say, "Interesting, that's the same reason as me, I'm also looking for something new." I then show the book in my hand, and say, "I have a feeling you know about this book." She says she does, and she has tried it, but felt the specific recipes didn't work for her. She then says she thinks food and diets are something that is very personal to each person.

I then transition into the RPO: "You know what's fascinating? Here we are in 2022, with full access to any book with a click of a button... yet here we are, having decided to come to a physical bookstore." She says "I agree" and she asks me what made me decide to come to a bookstore. I told her "That's the thing. I feel like in 2022, we are always glued to our screens. Sometimes, I just want to go out in the real world, interact with real people, and flip through real books." She says she totally agrees, and asks what I do for work. I say I work from home, and turn the question back onto her (I feel like Im trying more and more to not talk about my work LOL). She says she works in finance and investments, and says she doesn't work to live, but does it because she finds it interesting. At this point, I feel like talking about work might actually be her interest, so I am more OK with talking about it, and I tell her I know others in her industry in the area. I then tell her, "I'm so glad you found a job you actually are interested in, you know thats really rare right?"

She says she understands it is, and that its not something you can force. I then do the connection gambit: "I don't know if you've noticed this, but when you try a new hobby, or meet a new person in life... you can sometimes immediately feel if you guys are on the wavelength or not. How you feel is not correlated with how long you've known the hobby, or how long you've done something."

She totally agrees, and goes on for a long time about how she totally believes in the universe deciding these things ahead of times, and how its bullshit you can spend 10,000 hours to master something, because you can't predict whether you would like something at the beginning. I say, "Yup, that's what makes life so fascinating, you never know when something good will appear, or sometimes... even disappear".

I then transition into the travel gambit with a pacing + leading: "Hey, earlier, you mentioned that you don't work to live. But what if you didn't have to? What if you won the lottery and go anywhere you want? What would you do?" She tells me she would spend a lot of time studying recipes, and probably pick up a hobby like gardening. And that she would travel to all kind of places. I ask here where she would travel, and she mentions she likes the asian countries, and not the european ones. I ask her why, she says she doesn't know. She then asks me what I would do. I then tell her, actually, I wouldn't change what I was doing in terms of career, but I would travel to probably Japan. She asks me about my job, which I answer briefly, but then I transition back into another travel gambit about freedom: "Hey, have you ever noticed when you're travelling, you feel more free? It's like, you don't have the judgement of everyone back home, and you are more free to explore things you want to do." She totally agrees, and tells me she doesn't like living in a way where she has to chase approval of what other people think.

I tell her: "You know, that's the thing about this city though, it feels like it's all about status. People are always' chasing the next high, the next party, or the next big thing. It's like they are not able to take a step back, and just live in the moment." She totally goes very emotionally and says, "Omg, you are so right, I hate that!" I then say, "You know what, you seem very serendipitious. However, I presume you don't like or use social media then, because that is where everyone is constantly comparing themselves with each other and chasing status." She says, "Well, I don't, but I DO use LinkedIn, so if you want to add me there.".

I was a little surprised at this, but it doesn't make sense to not go for it. I then say "Sure, and perhaps we can grab a coffee sometime and talk some more, because this was fun." She says sure, and adds me. Again, I never even had to take out my phone. I then tell her I will get the book in my hand, and exit the shop.

Girl #3: I see her sitting by herself, looking into the lake. I walk in front of her, and stare off into the horizon, making sure she saw me for 20-30 seconds. I then walk to the seat next to her's, and ask her "Mind if I take a seat?" She fumbles a bit, then says "Uhh, yeah, sure." and goes back to looking at her phone. I sit down, and take out my phone, and respond to some messages on facebook. In the corner of my eye, I wait until she is done texting on her phone and glancing out into the lake. I then look up, facing her at a 45% degree, and tell her, "It's a great day, isn't it?" She looks at me somewhat blankly, and says "Yeah, it is.". Due to her somewhat blank response, I go back to my phone and continue texting.

After 1-2 minute, the sun comes out and the temperature noticeably becomes warmer, and I notice her looking around blankly again, so I deliver the full RPO this time: "You know what's fascinating? Here we are, looking into a blue sky, the warmth of the sun on our skins, and a light breeze brushing past us. Yet just a few hours ago, this city was completely covered in grey. So we are lucky to be in this moment."

At this point, she starts engaging in the conversation for real, and says, "Yeah, you are totally right, we are. I chose a good day to come down here." I then transition to, "Oh, are you from the area?" She says, no, and that she was from a nearby city. She then asks me where I'm from, and I tell her I live 5 minutes away in "one of those buildings", and point to one of the buildings.

Me: "You look like you are a student."
HB: "I am"
Me: "But you go to a college in this city?"
HB: "Yes, I go to <UNIVERSITY>"
Me: "Oh, I really like the vibe there, I see students sitting on the steps there all the time, and it always looks interesting."
HB: "You mean the <UNIVERSITY> steps. Yeah, I kind of don't like it there though, its so crowded there."
Me: "So you are saying... you like a vibe like this instead. Where it's calm, relaxing, and it's just a 1-on-1 conversation."
HB: "Yeah, I get nervous when there are big crowds. But I am trying to learn to get used to it. I am here to get away from all the stress, and just stare off and enjoy the moment."
Me: "But you know, sometimes its just better to be talking in a smaller group. The thing about crowds is that communication is so impersonal and surface, and you can't really go deep into the more interesting topics."
HB: "You are right about that."
Me: "Forgive me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling you are an introvert, and you naturally enjoy fewer, interpersonal connections rather than many shallow ones."
HB: "Well, I think it depends on the person I am talking to. Some people give off more energy, and I feel like I can capture some of that, while others require more to talk to."
Me: "I can see that. Actually I have this hypothesis... that when it comes to relationships between people, its not about the amount of time you know each other. Sometimes you can know someone for only a moment, and you just feel you guys are on the same wavelength. In this case, it doesn't feel like you are losing any energy at all. But other times, you can know someone for a long time, but it still feels draining to talk to them."
HB: "Yeah, I can see that. And sometimes, when you first meet someone, they seem great, but after you get used to them, you already have them in a box."
Me: "Yes, but relationships can also get better over time, I hope its not always going downhill after the first impression for you. haha."
HB: "*Laughs* Yeah, definitely not."
Me: "You know... you seem very mature for your age, and you seem very self aware. Thats very refreshing, especially in the age we live in of social media."
HB: "Thanks, I feel the same way for you as well."

We then talk about some other topics related to travel, her home country, the state of division in the west, the nature of empathy. I actually enjoy discussing these topics, so I try my best to go dive really deep, but I also make sure to come back up for some fresh air from time to time (i.e. I would make a comment on her outfit, ask if she was feeling cold, etc.). I was actually shocked that it was possible to be talking about these deep topics on a first meet with a HB. I'm not sure if its necessarily "good form" though, but for now, I prefer this compared to talking about work, lol.

At the end, I tell her I have to leave, because I have a meeting to run to, but if she's ever in downtown again, we should grab some coffee and talk some more. She responded "Sure", happily. I then asked her if she was on anything. She said she had IG. I then pause, and ask her, "Wait, I'm curious, I want to know your thoughts on social media." (I think this is actually good, because it puts me in the judge frame, and makes it seem like I'm evaluating whether I should connect with her).

She tells me she uses it, but understands how negative it is and wants to quit it in a few years (I doubt this will happen, but this is some indication of her "complying" to my frame since I hinted earlier my negativity towards social media).

I tell her "Yeah, the thing is you need it to stay connected with people you care about and see whats going on in their life." And then she pulls out her phone and I guide her to type in my name. We then talk a bit more about what I do, and I give her a bit of mystery regarding my work, before saying I have to go, and actually leave.

It was truly mind-blowing to experience these interactions, because of how this is completely different from when I went direct, or when I was going previously indirect without having RPs to help steer the conversation towards the right frame.

It was also mind-blowing from a result perspective to get 3 contact infos from 3 approaches, as this was also never possible in my past. I feel like actually completely changes my perspective on daygame. I'm actually not having a hard time believing some people are able to pull 1 in 5 from daygame.

It seems advanced tech like reality pacing / gambits / situational approaches actually work pretty well. I wonder if it's possible to mix these in to a direct approach to make those work better, but I have some doubts about that due to the inherent frame difference. The only limitation of this approach so far is that I seem limited to stationary girls who have some time to chat.
 
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Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 13:

Went out for a walk mid-day to the lake. I see an amazing view with a HB sitting alone on a bench, with an empty seat next to her.

I walk in front of her, and stare off into the lake. I say "Wow, thats amazing..." and make sure she can hear me from the bench. 30-45 seconds later, I turn around and walk towards her at the bench, asking if I may sit down.

She says "sure." and I sit down. I take out my phone, pretending to look through it, but I notice in the corner in my eye she was just enjoying the view, so shortly after, I put my phone away, and use the RPO "Such an amazing view... the blue sky, the gentle breeze of the wind, and the warmth of the sun..."

HB: "Yeah, it's great, except theres a little bit of a fog."
Me: "Fog? Oh you mean the haze from the sun. It looks fine to me."
HB: "..."
Me: "Its such a shame... that a great moment like this... will not last."
HB: "I normally like the winter, but you are right."
Me: "Oh? Why do you like the winter?"
HB: "Just the things that you can do."
Me: "So what you mean to say... is you like skiing, snowboarding, etc.?"
HB: "Yeah, you can say that."
Me: "But you know, <CITY> is not so great for that, there aren't many mountains here. There is barely a hill."
HB: "You are right. I've barely been here."
Me: "Are you new to <CITY>?"
HB: "Yes."
Me: "No way. Ive only been here for <X days>."
HB: "Haha... I see."
Me: (I feel at this point I should not get too invested and let some silence into the interaction, so I stare at the view)
HB: "So, where did you come from?"
Me: "<Old City>, you?"
HB: "<City in Russia>"

I won't write the whole conversation here, but from which city we came from, I nudge towards the SOT of "where would you go if you won the lottery?", then into how travelling offers us freedom and the non judgement gambit during travelling. After that, we talk about career, and she tells me she is studying biology/chemistry. I guess correctly that she wants to be a doctor, and she was surprised how I knew. Not sure why she was surprised, this seems pretty obvious to me. Then I connect with her about whether wanting to be a doctor came from parental pressures or more an innate interest thing for her.

I then ask her what she likes doing besides, sleeping, eating, and going out for walks to parks. (she already started laughing before I finished the word "eating", as if she could intuitively know what I was trying to ask.

At the end, I introduce myself and put my hand out, and as we shake our hands. I hold her hand and let it linger for a few seconds, as she does not retract her hand.

I then ask her if she wants to explore the city and some restaurants with me sometime. She agrees, and I grab her instagram. As she is adding herself, I ask about what her views are about social media. She says she never used it until 1 year ago when her friends told her to get it. I tease her and say, "never used it since 1 year ago? I don't believe you." She then says, "Ok, maybe 2 years ago, I was using snapchat." I say "Ok, that makes more sense, hard to believe not using social media through most of school"

I look at her IG account afterwards and she has a picture of her happily with her BF. Lol. Not sure if I should even bother texting her to try to get her out.

Ah well... 1 approach, 1 number.
 

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
It has been many days since I posted so I won't be able to write down all my days in the field. But I will write down the most recent one.

Day 17

Girl 1
: Saw her coming out of my building, and gave her a compliment on the bright colors of her clothes, said it looks flamboyant and contrasted well. Asked her what she was doing, she said she was running errands. I told her "If you look like that while running errands, I can't imagine what you'd look like at a party." She laughed. I ask her where she's going, and it turns out we are going towards the same direction. She then tells me she hasn't woken up, and is grabbing coffee. I tell her its the same for me.

We talk about a bit about her work, and then I tell her I was new in the city, and from this I transition into the topic of travel and talk about how it lets us be free, and we converse a bit about that. We then arrive at the coffee shop and she had already ordered the coffee, I quickly order, then before she leaves, I tell her we should grab coffee or a drink sometime. She agrees, and we exchange number.

Girl 2: Sat down next to her on the subway, saw her trying to put in airpods to her ears, so I stop her by asking if they were the new ones. She says they were not, and the old ones. I then see she also wore an apple watch, and I tease her by saying with a laughing face, "Don't tell me you're one of those apple fangirls with airpods, apple watch, iphone, and macbook." She says she is and laughs slightly. I then check for logistics by asking where she is going, in which she responds with "home." (I was hoping she would tell me which stop so I can see how much time I have). I didn't know what to say in this case, so I turn away for a 3-4 seconds. She puts the airpods into her ears.

Girl 3: I see a cute girl in the waiting area of a coffee area. She looks like she is looking around and impatient. So while HOLDING my coffee I walk into the waiting area, and ask her how long she has been waiting there. She tells me 15 minutes. I tell her, "wow, thats a really long time." (I believe this in itself is the beginning part of a pace). She asks me if I had a mobile order, in which I told her yes (I had to say yes since there was no other way to maintain social frame of me walking RANDOMLY into the waiting area without going into line).

The funny thing is, I was ALREADY holding the coffee from the previous place while claiming to be "waiting for a mobile order", which literally makes no sense. I'm surprised she didn't call me out for this.

I then tell her I was new in town, and I asked her if she was from the area, to which she says she was. She then asked me where I lived, and I told her. I then ask her if she likes travelling, she says she does. We then talk a bit about we were going to do for the rest of the day.

We then talk some more, and finally her order comes, I tell her, we should grab some coffee or a drink sometime. She agrees and we exchange numbers. We text a bit after and she agreed to get coffee.

Girl 4: I make a comment about her looking at the self-help section of a bookstore by asking if she's looking to make a big change in her life. She hears me because I see her looking at me slightly, but she completely ignores me.

Girl 5: Saw her looking at the gift wrap section and I open by saying, "Isn't it too early for Christmas shopping?" And she laughs by saying no. We talk about travel, I tell her I'm new in the city, and we talk about Christmas shopping plans. She then tells me she has guy friends who are trying to cold approach girls that they tell her how hard it is.

Since my approach was "situational", my response was, yeah, I can see how that can be really hard. I change the topic to some other things, then I tell her we should grab a coffee or drink sometime. She agrees, and adds my number, and she sends me a text first. I respond, in which case she then sends a bunch of plans for what we should in the future. I tell her "how about we start with coffee?" She says sure, but then double texts me, and then when I don't reply, she sends another double text proposing a time and place. I get a very bad feeling from her, like she would be very needy, so I tell her, "Sorry but we can't talk anymore. Best of luck."

Girl 6: Saw her walking towards a food court line, so I join the line right after her. I noticed she is standing at a spot where the line was unclear if it was the right one (There were 2 lines). So I ask the people in front of her if they were line, in which she then takes of her headphones to listen. They say they are not. She then thanks me. I then ask her if she was from the area. She says no, and she was from <CITYNAME> nearby to which I say, "Yeah I figured, you have an enthusiastic energy to you, while it seems like everyone else is just going through the motions". She tells me, "You too, you seem more lively than others here". I don't know why, but at this point I feel like there was strong sexual tension. I then tell her, "You seem adventurous. I bet you like travelling." She says she does, and I ask her to list out where she's been to. We then talk about travel. I then ask her what she does, in which, she tells me "I run a spiritual healing center". We then talk about entrepreneurship. She tells me she loves to explore the unknown, to which I tell her, "I've always been the kind of person, where if you tell me don't press the button... She actually completes my sentence by saying "you will press it." At this point, I am very close to her physically, and I notice she is very cute, and I feel the sexual tension shooting through the roof. I look at her necklace and see she is wearing a necklace and commented on it by saying, "I like your collar necklace, it looks very mysterious." (man-to-women premise should be quite obvious now). BTW, I've been triangular gazing up to this point.

After a while, I say to her "So, you're from <CITYNAME>, huh? How long are you here for?" She tells me she is leaving that weekend, but that she comes here "often" for class. I say, "Great, why don't we grab a coffee or drink sometime when you're here?" She says yes, and I ask her if she's on whatsapp. She then says she will give me her number, and she proceeds to check her phone for what her number is. I then send her an icebreaker text on the spot, and she shows me she got it. I then shake hands with her with a lingering touch while looking at her in the eyes, and say "Goodbye."

I found it very difficult to believe how amazing this approach went, to the point where the two of us were almost completely removed from everyone else even though we were in a line. I am slightly suspicious about her though, I wonder if she is an escort or just putting on a front from her job.

Girl 7: Standing by herself near a stand, approached directly with compliment opener on her jacket, she says thanks, and asks "You like just my jacket?". I say with a smile, "Maybe more than that as well :)". But then gets a phone call from a friend. After the phone, she says she has to go.

Girl 8: Saw her giving me IOI while walking past me, so I walk up behind her. She enters an escalator so I stand behind her until we arrive at the top. She stops there and stands while looking around, and I take this opportunity to approach her, I deliver a compliment to her, and she gives me deer eyes. Since we were at the top of the escalator and people were going up and down, I tell her "Lets move somewhere with less people", and I walk to a corner, and she follows (compliance). We then talk about a bunch of stuff, but 5-10 mins in, she tells me, "Btw, Idk if you're hitting on me or something, but I do have a boyfriend.". I say, "Cool, how'd you guys meet?" She tells me briefly about him which I feel confirms he's real. We then talk for about another 10 minutes, to which I then tell her, "Why don't we grab coffee sometime?" She says sure, and we exchange number.

Girl 9: See her standing and looking at her phone. I approach direct, super short interaction since she wasn't giving me anything to work with. I throw in the are you from the area, and asked her what she was up to. She says she is shopping, and I point out the fact that she doesn't have any bags. She says she was just starting, and I use the buy one reality pace from @Skippy by saying "Are you the kind of person that goes to the mall thinking of buying one thing... but then you end up buying a million different things? She says "yeah". I say "Haha, I have friends who are like that". I then ask her if she is down to grab a coffee or a drink sometime. She says, "Ok, but I have a busy schedule." I say "That's fine, we'll find a time that works for both of us." with a smile. She says ok. I then take out my phone and have her input her number. Don't feel like this was a good interaction, TBH.

Girl 10: See her walking back to my building, so I open her and ask if she lives in the area, talk a bit, before i leave, ask her to grab coffee sometime. She agrees. Exchange numbers.

Girl 11-18: Approaches that didn't open, spread out above. They were there, but don't remember. I tried a bunch of "Oh hey" from @Gunwitch's SMMA, but I feel like it didn't really get girls to look at me so I can deliver the follow-up

Afterwards, I save Girl #8 and Girl #9 name in the wrong order and I end up texting girl #8 address her as if she's girl #9, and vice versa. I fully expect them to ghost me after this or just call me out on this.

All very highly targeted approaches on stationary/strolling girls. Some were also close to where I live so it makes it easier for them to say yes (without the interaction itself being necessarily good).

My current feeling is that situational/reality pace openers are strongly superior to "direct compliment opener". There is something about the frame being more "it just happened" than "oh, this is a guy who's clearly trying to hit on me". Maybe it is because of my current level of fundamentals not being as good as it could. I will continue to test things out between the 2, but so far it's not looking good for going direct. I think a primary advantage of direct though is that the man-to-woman premise is certain, which is advantageous in certain ways. I also still don't have a good idea how to approach walking people on the street without going direct, so perhaps there is no way to get around using direct/compliment. I read the articles by @Bacchus but I'm not able to tell if they can be used on walking targets in place of going direct/compliment.

The other reason why direct is going so poorly for me (ratio wise) might also be related to my frame/inner game, which is currently more calibrated to "indirect". However, with indirect, I need to be careful to make sure the interaction has enough elements of emotional simulation / sexual tension / and also man-to-woman frame.

I'm going to focus on making the interaction the best possible moving forward.
 

Bacchus

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
775
I read the articles by @Bacchus but I'm not able to tell if they can be used on walking targets in place of going direct/compliment.

Not sure which of my articles you are referring to...

But here are a couple links with street game techniques that I have innovated, field tested and taught. (LINK) (LINK)
 

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Not sure which of my articles you are referring to...

But here are a couple links with street game techniques that I have innovated, field tested and taught. (LINK) (LINK)

Thanks for sharing these articles! I did not see these ones. I had been reading and applying this article which seems to be focused on stationary people. I will definitely try out the meet smooth in street game along with RPOs on moving targets. Will be curious to see whether it affects the % of girls that reach the hook point.
 

Lulu

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
22
Day 19

Went on a date with the girl I met at the grocery store. Went to a bar for drinks in the evening. I focus on having her talk most of the time. It was a weekday night so I did not try to pull. Ended date first saying I had a team building event i had to run to early in the morning. I text her afterwards checking if she got home safe. She responds positively.

I try to schedule a second date with her afterwards and she ghosts me.

Day 20

I make it my focus to practice direct compliment openers because I still have no results with these whatsoever (did not get a single number that responds)

Girl 1

Walked next to her as we entered the subway station, but saw her ticket get rejected while entering. I walk down to loading area and wait for the subway to arrive. 1-2 minutes later, I see the same girl walking down the steps and standing next to me. I open her by asking if she was the person who got rejected earlier standing next to me, and she said "yup, but I got it fixed." I tell her, "Nice." I let the silence fill for a few moments, before re-engaging (since she is standing next to me) "Are you from the area? Because it seems we came from the same direction and I live pretty close by". She tells me she is, and I tell her I recently moved to the area. We enter the subway, and we chat a bit, I give her a compliment on her jacket saying its warm, and tell her I'm actually on my way to the mall to get a new jacket myself. She tells me she is also heading to the mall, to prepare for a trip to a warm place. We talk about travelling for a bit. Once we arrive at the mall, we walk and talk a bit further, before I tell her we should grab a coffee sometime. She says, "Sure, as long as its as friends since I have a fiance." Having heard this a million times at this point I don't even bat an eye and say, "Of course, as friends." I get her IG and see bunch of pictures of her with her fiance so its definitely real.

Girl 2

See her standing by a wall, so I approached her by complimenting her shoes, she says thanks but continues to look at her phone and kinda just ignores me. I say "Have a nice day", and eject.

Girl 3

I see her holding a gamestop bag and open with a self-amused remark:

Me: "Omg, is that a gamestop bag?"
HB: "yes, it is."
Me: "You know the meme with pumping gamestop on wallstreetbets?"
HB: "No, I don't, unfortunately."
Me: "That's a shame."

We are standing in the soap and shampoo area, and I start looking at some of the items. She is still standing there. I then turn to her and re-open:

Me: "So, what are you up to right now?"
HB: "Well, I'm actually waiting for my boyfriend to get off his shift so I'm just browsing casually for a bit."
Me: "Right on. Just browsing."
HB: "Yup, and you?"
Me: "I actually moved to the area recently, so I'm shopping for some essential things for the home."
HB: "Nice."

At this point I feel like there is no point so I eject.

Girl 4

Open a ukrainian girl with a compliment, but she is not good at english, so I eject.

Girl 5

Opened an asian girl by complimenting her outfit and saying the entire look was very mysterious and gothic. She thanks me, but continues to walk forward and kind of ignores me so I eject.

Girl 6

Opened a girl by complimenting on her anime looking outfit, she responds warmly, but 30 seconds as we're walking she walks into a gaming store, turns out she works there.

Girl 7

Very hot girl who was taller than me. I see her holding a coffee holder with 2 items in it. I walk up to her as she's looking at items in the store. I stand next to her, point at her tray with a smirk, and open with a situational tease "Is one of those for me?" She starts laughing and says "No, they are both for me." I then look at the item and see a coffee as well as an ice cream, so I look at her with a confused/suspicious face "Wait, so you have a coffee AND an ice cream for yourself?" She laughs and says "Yup, I plan to have one earlier and the other later". I ask her if she's from the area, she says she isn't (she is from a city 1-2 hours away). She then asks me the same question and I say I just moved here which is why I'm looking for shampoo/soap stuff. At this point I don't know why but I draw a blank and eject. Totally could've continued the conversation and tried for a number close (had a good feeling it would probably work as well).

Girl 8

See a cute asian girl sitting down and eating at the food court, so I sit down next to her without making eye contact and text on my phone. 1-2 minutes later, I turn to her, and ask her, "How would you rate that, from 1-10?" She doesn't give a number, but says it's really good. I then ask her where she got it from, and she tells me. I tell her I'll probably check it out. I then make a cold read off her accent and ask her if she's Japanese. She tells me she is, and looked impressed that I knew. I ask her if she's from the area and she says she works there, and shows me her uniform. She then says she arrived in the city a month ago from Japan. This is actually similar to the time i also arrived so I said, "No way, me as well." and high-fived her. We talk about travel for a bit and I talk about culture, about how in the west people are much more free to do what their heart desires, and she says thats exactly why she came here. I qualify her and tell her I like her adventurousness and open-mindedness to new experiences, as well as her ambition in starting a new life. I then do a lingering touch handshake with her, as well as a compliment on her bracelet, comparing it with my own. The whole interaction I'm trying to maintain strong eye contact and occasionally triangular gazing. After a while she starts standing up to leave (probably has to go back to her shift), and I tell her I wanted to grab coffee with her sometime. She agrees and we exchange numbers.

Text her afterwards and try to set up a date next day by asking her when she is free. She says its hard to find time due to her shifts. I send her the no worries text from this guide.

Girl 9

I sit next to her at a subway station and ask her if she's "going for an adventure or coming back from one?" Then have a bit of a conversation, talk about travel, culture, etc. Then I tell her I have to go but would like to grab coffee with her sometime. She agrees and we exchange numbers.

Text her afterwards with an icebreaker text and she does not respond.

Girl 10

I walk down the street and see a girl wearing pajamas. I walk up to her and open with a smirk "I just have to say, you have the most I don't give a shit style I've ever seen all day, its like you just got out of bed and downtown is your bedroom." She doesn't give me an extremely positive response, but she does look slightly engaged and amused, and she plays off what I said. I tell her I will walk with her for a bit as I'm going in the same direction. At the end of the walk, I tell her I have to head to my station to get home, but I ask her if she would like to grab coffee with me, she says she has a boyfriend.

Girl 11

Can't even remember this approach but went direct and got rejected off the spot

Direct Compliment approaches: 5, Numbers: 0
Indirect/Situational approaches: 6, Numbers: 3 (could have been likely 4 if I didn't screw up my interaction with the coffee girl)



Day 21


Girl 1

Cute asian girl, I notice her looking at me in my peripheral vision, so I stand around looking at the train schedule, and then sit down next to her, and start texting on my phone. A few moments later, I notice her taking off her headphones and I open her with a question,

Me: "Is that the apple airpods pro max?"
HB: "Why do you ask, are you thinking of getting one?"
Me: "I was, but I was also considering the Sony"
HB: "I see."
Me: "Wait, don't tell me you're one of those apple fangirls, I bet you have a macbook, apple watch, airpods, iphone"
HB: "Yes, I do, haha."
Me: "Oh no, they got you into their ecosystem."
HB: "So, what are you doing here?"
Me: "I'm actually waiting for a friend right now. You know how this place is so confusing, I have to help my friends find their way around when they arrive"
HB: "Yeah, I actually missed my train, so I have to take the next one at X:XX"

From this, I calculate approximately how much time I have to talk to her, to ensure I can end the conversation first and not have her say she has to leave. We actually have a pretty great convo between both of us, in terms of chemistry. She even guessed what I studied correctly, which I accused her by asking her "What, how did you know that, are you sure you aren't stalking me?"

When I introduced myself and shook her hand, I could feel her hand was shaking a little. At this point, I was actually very very sure she would agree to getting coffee with me. When I asked her, surely, she agreed. Then I asked if she was on whatsapp, and she asked if I have instagram. I told her I did not unfortunately, due to getting too addicted to people's comments on social media and had to uninstall it ultimately. I then say to her, "I can take your number." At this point, she suddenly says, "Actually, I have a boyfriend, and I don't think he would be happy with that." I tell her, "Ok, no problem", and leave. Moments like this break my heart a little. But I think her boyfriend was real given how this happened.

Girl 2

She had an incredibly unique bag, so as she opens the door for me from in front and we exchange eye contact, I open her by saying, "I really like your bag, where'd you get it from?" We talk for about 30 seconds, and she tells me she has to go and leaves. At this point there was barely any rapport so I don't bother asking for a number.

Girl 3

Noticed she was wearing a shirt with similar pattern as mine, stopped her and opened with "I like your shirt, it has the same pattern as mine." She gave me a very positive response (immediate high note), so I immediately transition by asking her where she's heading. She says she's actually getting food before going back to work, and at this point I notice her walking around my path to try to get away from me. This was very strange to me, not sure why she was so positive but avoided me so much.

Girl 4

Walked into a store. Opened her indirectly with a question, she ignores me.

Girl 5

Made a comment on a Christmas light that was being sold. Talked a bit about the lights. 3-4 minutes in, transitioned to asking her about herself, made a compliment on her jewelry and fashion, and asked her if she was down to get coffee. She agreed, but the subcom felt a bit off in her. It seemed like she wasn't really taking me seriously, but just kinda going through the motions.

Later as I left the store and stand in the escalator. I look back and see her STANDING directly behind me. She says hello again when I looked at her (she kept quite the whole time while standing behind me). We then leave the store and I tell her I am going to walk to station X. She says she is also going to station X and we both start walking in the direction. We talk for about 10 minutes before arriving at the station. We then end it, but it was not on a high note. And there was a time in the conversation where it became a bit dull.

Girl 6

Sat down next to her in the station. Opened indirectly. Talked for a bit, until I asked her what she was up to. She tells me she is waiting for her boyfriends office party to end. I eject shortly after. Interaction was good, so could've asked for number, but theres no point unless I want to be making friends.

Direct Compliment approaches: 2, Numbers: 0
Indirect/Situational approaches: 4, Numbers: 1 (could have been 2 if I accepted the instagram request from girl 1 and 3 if I asked girl 6 for her contact, but both had BFs)

Reflection:

I have this feeling there is something I'm missing in my indirect interactions that lets the girl know the frame is man to woman. The reason I say this is because even though I can get tons of numbers going indirect, most girls there don't meet up for the date after responding to my text (I use this guide for texting). So the higher indirect number ratio I'm getting is actually a false positive compared to going direct. I suspect many of them do not have availability or intend to date (maybe they view me as platonic), as most of those numbers don't actually meet up with me for a date. That being said, I still have 0 numbers from direct so that is exponentially worse.

I don't know if there is something I'm missing in my interactions - maybe a fundamental / conversational skill thing? I'm likely not engaging / bantering / teasing the girls enough on indirect? Am I just closing "platonic numbers"? Is that why when I try to go direct it never works at all?

@Bacchus @Teevster @Tony D @Lofty and other indirect game practioners, I would love to hear if you guys have any insights to whats going on.
 
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Lofty

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
242
Rest assured that you’re doing great!

You’re definitely correct in your intuition that maybe there’s some pieces still building in your overall conversational skills, which is totally normal.

That's really not even a direct/indirect thing - it’s that you’re just a bit inconsistent through your beginning transition phases right now (again, totally normal!) and there are lots of variables that play into this.

It’s a common thought that indirect can lack proper sexualization, and of course it can… but that’s not an indictment on direct/indirect but rather the individual context.

The thing is that with strong verbals and conversational routing abilities - regardless of the labels attached to their game style - seducers will have far more effective sexual frames with strong verbal game rather than with approaches that start out by totally handing away social frame from the start (such as with the popular “Neo-direct” beliefs that some claim like horrible, horrible ratios on… which is not what we’re trying to work towards here.)



And by verbals, I don’t just mean “NLP” which is another common misconception - those techs are only one component that may or may not be used. When stepping back, the focus is more towards meeting smooth with the utility of the verbals and non-verbals alike to build up each component of the 3 Keys from approach to post-lay. Such as in other disciplines, it's working on understanding the "why" that really unlocks the power behind these concepts.

Speaking of social frame, that’s also a reason why you’re not getting responses on your numbers. Social frame is not only a massive key for the approach but also crucially important to number closing/texting. This is because when you’re not there in front of her, the social frame is very delicate as she’s working with her recollection of you and what you put into text. Ask yourself, “How is she going to remember me?” and be aware of the contexts of the approach and its most appropriate sprezzatura.



Are you 1. giving her a quality enough of an interaction to make her intrigued after the approach + maintaining the social frame and 2. NOT giving her a reason to disqualify you on a social frame level? That would mean things such as being uncalibrated/negatively knee-jerk both in person + over text.

Basically, that means giving her a high-quality interaction overall, the meaning of which is heavily variable based on the context of the approach.

Note again how you’re approaching and getting into a routine for that, but you’re not always breaking into that next, immersive phase before number closing.

See the difference in feel with your approach with the Japanese girl, which was a good start into immersion and SOTs, and some of the other approaches? And she responded, right? Her response about it being hard to find time with her shifts could actually have been legitimate and/or was in response to nature of the text which went straight into scheduling (you'll see people around the forum such as Skills using the phrase "hard-closing" for that)… when maybe she could have needed something else before the scheduling.

On that note, you can experiment with different texting styles as you build up your approaching skills, too. One nice method is to recall a high point over text as you build up her compliance to respond over text. Intrigue baiting about those high points and/or things you noticed about her/her way of thinking are great ways to do that as you build up the tension into the close, just like in person a la SMMA.

Additionally, why not post some transcripts of your texting? That would help for self-analyzation and troubleshooting - members like Skills and fog historically have made key efforts to troubleshoot texting transcripts if members make the effort for example (haven't been around much myself lately).

Now, and this is a key thing here, I also recommend you focus on extending your interactions by not only opening/closing or just breaking into that immersion phase but also deeper into it. This builds on the transition phase discussion from before.

What I’m talking about here is instadating or generally having longer interactions where you’re persisting + isolating/moving her to different places. Being familiar with the area and having locations in the bag where you can seamlessly extend interactions (for example, pretending like you're on your way walking towards X interesting place - a beautiful park, cafe, whatever - and persisting for her to come along once you've built some compliance) can be vital.

Instadating can sound intimidating to some, but I think it’s well within your reach and pushing the interactions further are going to build your skills + increase the quality of your interactions, giving you better odds if you have to number close (but preferably, stay in-set and keep working as long as calibration allows). That doesn't even mean necessarily spending money either - more so towards creating impactful experiences in her world whether that's moving her to the bench for a deep convo or whatever your mind creates.

Something important to mention here is that you don’t necessarily have to exchange numbers at the end. Rather, something that may lead to good results for you is to number close following a high point BUT continue gaming her afterwards, whether that’s all the way into an insta-date/SDL or for a little while to build better social frames.

A useful technique that plays into this is making sure that you’re verbalizing unique perceptions of her perspectives/the way she moves through the world - showing that you understand her at a profound level and giving her those butterflies in her stomach of finally feeling understood… now that’s building social frame that will last! And to me, that starts building up a much stronger sentiment of “why you’re talking to her” than the traditional view of SOIs and starts getting into advanced discussions of fantasy/narrative game (but that's not something for you to worry about right now).

Additionally something that comes to mind - your fundamentals do play into your initial social frame and into the puzzle. With good fundamentals, you’re helping yourself and mitigating the chance she has a negative knee-jerk upon approach. At a basic level you want to make sure you're just not at an extreme end of the spectrum to make her snap judge you from the jump.

And of course beyond that there are refinements such as posture, tonality, not dressing in any way that’s really negatively polarizing, things like being in solid shape, making sure hygiene is in check, etc - those kind of basic things. Now, it’s super important that those are things to be working on bit-by bit- while you’re also working in-field and improving yourself across many different areas. Stressing again that fundamentals are things to keep refining while you’re still working in-field!

What limits some guys is the thinking like, “I’ll get ripped and THEN I’ll approach!” No no no, that’s totally not it and is often cope/avoidance. Because of the basic sexual makeup of women as Gunwitch explains in SMMA and realities you’ll see for yourself, fundamentals are but one component of seduction and how we drive female states through influence (i.e. seduction vs hookup/pure chance) so that's just something to be mindful of.

So yeah, as you intuited there’s not just one thing at work here. To sum up, here are some points + resources to explore (linked some of these before):
Should provide some good stuff to chew on as you iterate, grow in-field, and naturalize tons.

Keep working, learning from both experience and the many resources on SS/GC, and the progress you’re looking for will come in time!
 
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