I get it. Game is all about social calibration. How to express interest, but not too much, and at the right times. How to be low-investment, low-emotional state, but not miss escalation windows. How to approach, initiate, and lead, without chasing, simping, or looking desperate. As @Warped Mindless said, "You don't need to be perfect" ... but you do have to make everything look easy/effortless (sprezzatura).
Am I the only one who just can't seem to make any progress with learning this stuff anymore? I've been trying to "get good" with women for almost a decade now. A lot of this stuff seemed to work in my early twenties, but the past five years have been a long decline into zero results. It all seems so elaborate and mysterious to me now.
I'll be honest, Alek's recent article criticizing neo-direct game hit hard with me. That was pretty much my style, and yes, it did work back then. I've always had success with women by keeping thing simple and judgement-free. The one advantage I've always had was low agreeableness -- not giving a F*** about social norms. Of the 40+ women I've banged, exactly three were NOT same-day or first date lays, and all three of those girls turned into LTRs. When guys were complaining about how to get first date sex, I was complaining that I couldn't figure out how to get a second date out of girl -- a lot of good ones got away when I couldn't convert on the first.
Sure, I can still get laid with 4s and 5s through online dating.
Sure, every once in a while I'll meet and bang a 8 or a 9 -- like once a year when I'm on vacation or something.
But I haven't actually dated a girl I was really interested since I was 25. Hell, at this point, I'm starting to think I want kids... I can actually afford them now... but I can't get a MF date with a girl I'd actually want to reproduce with.
I still put so much effort into this. I spend a lot more time and money than I'd like to admit going out, trying day game, night game, street game, anything. Social game has never really been an option for me, since I've moved across the country about every 16 months, I've never built up a strong social circle anywhere.
I'm about to the point of throwing in the towel here guys. I guess the game has changed, and I just can't adapt. The only responses I get from girls now are "I'm flattered, but I can't" (Why not?) or "I'm too young/you're too old/how old are you" etc. (From girls that are ~22, and I know 7-9 years is nothing for many guys in this community.)
Do I really look that old? I swear my fundamentals are better now than ever, especially when I was <25. Hell, back then, I didn't even go to the gym, I was overweight. I just had a fast convertible and and a big ego, and girls wanted to bang. Now, it's like, I've got money, I'm in great shape, full head of hair, dress sharp -- but girls are "flattered, but they can't" go out with me....
In the 100 or so approaches I've done in the past six months, I've gotten
- One number that turned into a first date ONS
- One number that turned into two "friend dates" (girl had a bf). I missed the escalation window on the second because we were out with a group, and was enjoying myself too much
- ~10 numbers that have all gone nowhere/turned into flakes.
This is not counting online dating, but still, online dating is boring, and the girls I can meet from there are never 'top shelf.'
There's been a lot of talk on this forum lately of the "game is dead" argument -- no, game is not dead. I have younger guy friends that I see killing it all the time. But when I try my brain just... fails. I just default back into being hyper direct and sexual. And girls just don't respond to that anymore.
At this point, I'm willing to try a nuclear option. I'm all out of ideas, and with the other areas of my life largely sorted out, finally solving the "girl problem" has become the top priority in my life. But I'm not interested in reading "find yourself" books or "5 general principles of seductions". If there are sophisticated techniques that still get reliable, concrete results from women these days, I need to figure out someway to learn them. And that means some way to track progress too.
Thanks for the long read, and I look forward to hearing your suggestions.
- metalbird
Am I the only one who just can't seem to make any progress with learning this stuff anymore? I've been trying to "get good" with women for almost a decade now. A lot of this stuff seemed to work in my early twenties, but the past five years have been a long decline into zero results. It all seems so elaborate and mysterious to me now.
I'll be honest, Alek's recent article criticizing neo-direct game hit hard with me. That was pretty much my style, and yes, it did work back then. I've always had success with women by keeping thing simple and judgement-free. The one advantage I've always had was low agreeableness -- not giving a F*** about social norms. Of the 40+ women I've banged, exactly three were NOT same-day or first date lays, and all three of those girls turned into LTRs. When guys were complaining about how to get first date sex, I was complaining that I couldn't figure out how to get a second date out of girl -- a lot of good ones got away when I couldn't convert on the first.
Sure, I can still get laid with 4s and 5s through online dating.
Sure, every once in a while I'll meet and bang a 8 or a 9 -- like once a year when I'm on vacation or something.
But I haven't actually dated a girl I was really interested since I was 25. Hell, at this point, I'm starting to think I want kids... I can actually afford them now... but I can't get a MF date with a girl I'd actually want to reproduce with.
I still put so much effort into this. I spend a lot more time and money than I'd like to admit going out, trying day game, night game, street game, anything. Social game has never really been an option for me, since I've moved across the country about every 16 months, I've never built up a strong social circle anywhere.
I'm about to the point of throwing in the towel here guys. I guess the game has changed, and I just can't adapt. The only responses I get from girls now are "I'm flattered, but I can't" (Why not?) or "I'm too young/you're too old/how old are you" etc. (From girls that are ~22, and I know 7-9 years is nothing for many guys in this community.)
Do I really look that old? I swear my fundamentals are better now than ever, especially when I was <25. Hell, back then, I didn't even go to the gym, I was overweight. I just had a fast convertible and and a big ego, and girls wanted to bang. Now, it's like, I've got money, I'm in great shape, full head of hair, dress sharp -- but girls are "flattered, but they can't" go out with me....
In the 100 or so approaches I've done in the past six months, I've gotten
- One number that turned into a first date ONS
- One number that turned into two "friend dates" (girl had a bf). I missed the escalation window on the second because we were out with a group, and was enjoying myself too much
- ~10 numbers that have all gone nowhere/turned into flakes.
This is not counting online dating, but still, online dating is boring, and the girls I can meet from there are never 'top shelf.'
There's been a lot of talk on this forum lately of the "game is dead" argument -- no, game is not dead. I have younger guy friends that I see killing it all the time. But when I try my brain just... fails. I just default back into being hyper direct and sexual. And girls just don't respond to that anymore.
At this point, I'm willing to try a nuclear option. I'm all out of ideas, and with the other areas of my life largely sorted out, finally solving the "girl problem" has become the top priority in my life. But I'm not interested in reading "find yourself" books or "5 general principles of seductions". If there are sophisticated techniques that still get reliable, concrete results from women these days, I need to figure out someway to learn them. And that means some way to track progress too.
Thanks for the long read, and I look forward to hearing your suggestions.
- metalbird