Sex vs No Sex on the First Date

Gibson

Space Monkey
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So I'm a decently experienced seducer, having been actively in game for about 3 years, and with a notch count just short of triple digits (exactly 5 short to be exact haha). Not nearly as long/many as some, but still not a newbie.

And there is one thing that I still can't wrap my head around. What to do if you can't make sex happen on the first date.

Of all my first dates, 90% of them end in one of the 2 following ways
1) We have sex on the first date, and the girl (usually, not always) becomes part of my rotation (~80% of all my lays)
2) We don't have sex, and I never see her again.

Number 1 is clear, but number 2 baffles me, and likely not for the reason you think.

I understand, and resonate with the idea of "moving faster", and that generally speaking, the faster you can sleep with the girl, the better. She perceives you as dominant, hot, she had sex with you and enjoyed it (hopefully).

But, what happens with those girls who are more conservative, and who just don't sleep with guys on the first date? I live in Eastern Europe, and a good amount of girls here (not all, but more than half) tend to be that type. And sure, I do my part on the date, frame sex in a non-judgemental way, frame myself as very dominant (which most girls are really attracted to). But some girls just can't bring themselves to sleep with me. They may make out, or even give me a bj (though some also think that's demeaning to women), but no sex.

And it recently happened again. Went out with this girl, 28 year old, beautiful, feminine, and very sweet. We openly talked about kink, bdsm etc, and she admitted that a part of why she broke up with her last bf was he wasn't willing to explore that side of her with her. She told me about the stuff she fantisizes about, like nipple clamps, handcuffs, whips etc. And I know she perceived as high value, on the date she told me that, when I went to the bathroom, she later told me that she texted her friend saying "He's the real deal". She also told me about the moment she knew she liked me - when we were walking towards the bar, I took her by the arm and gently but firmly pulled her to turn the corner, instead of just saying let's turn here. Anyway, without going into too much detail, we went to mine for a glass of wine, made out, spent a total of around 5 hours together, but couldn't close.

She only slept with 3 guys, all were boyfriends, and she knew all of them for months or years as her friend group before she got together with any of them.

So I didn't wanna push it too much, I genuinely enjoyed her company. At some point, she left. Tomorrow texted me as normal, and then the day after, nothing, silence for 3 days. Before that, before the date, she was writing REALLY long messages, like, 15-20 sentences. And suddenly now went silent.

Eventually I asked her if everything's okay, she said "Yeah, I just needed to clear my head and summarize my impressions without your influence". I just said I understood, and changed the topic.

I invited her to go bowling this week because I got the impression she thought I just wanted to fuck her, and she said "Sounds good, but I'm not sure when I'm free :)". I just replied "Me neither. We can specify the day/time in a few days". To be honest, my gut's telling me there's about a 99% chance it's over, we're never gonna see each other again. Which I'm fine with in a sense that she's just another girl, even though I did quite like her, but I'm not fine in a sense that this keeps happening to me, not all the time, but often enough (around 40% of my dates end in a similar way).

The obvious answer would be she wasn't attracted enough, or she didn't perceive enough value in you. But I genuinely don't think that's the reason. I can generally tell when girls don't perceive me as high value enough, I had a date like that 2 weeks ago, when the girl wasn't attracted enough, and ofc nothing happened, but I learned from it, I knew what the issue was. But here with this girl I think that she just wasn't comfortable sleeping with me on the 1st date. Not because it's me, but because of her own beliefs and values. It probably didn't help that we went to mine, and made out, so know she might feel that it's expected of her to put out if she sees me again (hence why I suggested bowling, to make it more lighthearted).

Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for opinions of seducers who are more skilled/more experiences than me. What can I do in these situations and with these girls? The obvious answer is don't make out with them and don't invite them to your house, but how can I know that she wouldn't be cool with that? I saw she was attracted, my game was good, my subcomms/fundamentals were on point, and based on the fact that she was open talking about sex and about her kinks, I assumed she would be cool with it.

So I guess there are 2 questions:

1) Why does this happen - is my thinking right in thinking that girls just feel pressure for the next date when they make out but don't sleep with you?
2) Whatever the reason is, how can I know that a girl would feel that kind of pressure, and that she wouldn't be down to sleep with me on the 1st date, even though she perceived me as high value?


With one caveat, don't tell me it's because they don't perceive me as high value. I know when they do and when they don't (and even when I don't know, I know that I don't know, if that makes sense), and even if you still think that's the reason, just hypothetically, what else could be reason, other than value?
 
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J Wick

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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You are definitely more experienced than I am, but I wanted to share my thoughts anyway.

We openly talked about kink, bdsm etc, and she admitted that a part of why she broke up with her last bf was he wasn't willing to explore that side of her with her. She told me about the stuff she fantisizes about, like nipple clamps, handcuffs, whips etc.
she later told me that she texted her friend saying "He's the real deal"
"Yeah, I just needed to clear my head and summarize my impressions without your influence"

I wonder if there is something to these lines here.

Perhaps she's feeling unsure about getting into this new world and role you've opened up for her. It's like someone who says they really want to do something that intimidates them, and then they come to finally face it and decide they don't feel ready to take the jump.

I wonder, do you tend to set up an impression of intensity about the relationship/experiences you'll have together? If so, I could see that playing into this. Girls feeling like "wow he's a really cool guy, but I don't know if I can handle this/am ready for this"

I'm not even really talking about sexuality, but an intense experience. Vanilla sex isn't so scary, but an intense experience that she's not yet sure she is comfortable with, one that also leaves her feeling out of control and needs some times away to settle her thoughts?

Let me know if I'm on to something.
 

Gibson

Space Monkey
space monkey
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You are definitely more experienced than I am, but I wanted to share my thoughts anyway.





I wonder if there is something to these lines here.

Perhaps she's feeling unsure about getting into this new world and role you've opened up for her. It's like someone who says they really want to do something that intimidates them, and then they come to finally face it and decide they don't feel ready to take the jump.

I wonder, do you tend to set up an impression of intensity about the relationship/experiences you'll have together? If so, I could see that playing into this. Girls feeling like "wow he's a really cool guy, but I don't know if I can handle this/am ready for this"

I'm not even really talking about sexuality, but an intense experience. Vanilla sex isn't so scary, but an intense experience that she's not yet sure she is comfortable with, one that also leaves her feeling out of control and needs some times away to settle her thoughts?

Let me know if I'm on to something.
Thank for the reply.

Could you clarify a bit what you mean by "do you tend to set up an impression of intensity about the relationship/experiences you'll have together?"
 

J Wick

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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"do you tend to set up an impression of intensity about the relationship/experiences you'll have together?"
Yeah I'll try again, I had a hard time trying to explain it in words.

Basically, I'm thinking that if she gets an impression that if she sees you again, she's going to feel a bit overwhelmed. Perhaps it's she's opened up too much and feels like she's agreed to do these crazy sexual things, and doesn't yet know how comfortable she is with you guiding her through that.

It sounds like you're communicating your value really well, and even comfort is decent. But imagine someone you like and feel comfortable around is asking you to go skydiving, but you're really afraid of skydiving and don't feel like your friend understands your fear, even though you want to go skydiving and trust this person, you might feel overwhelmed and unsupported.
 

Gibson

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Yeah I'll try again, I had a hard time trying to explain it in words.

Basically, I'm thinking that if she gets an impression that if she sees you again, she's going to feel a bit overwhelmed. Perhaps it's she's opened up too much and feels like she's agreed to do these crazy sexual things, and doesn't yet know how comfortable she is with you guiding her through that.

It sounds like you're communicating your value really well, and even comfort is decent. But imagine someone you like and feel comfortable around is asking you to go skydiving, but you're really afraid of skydiving and don't feel like your friend understands your fear, even though you want to go skydiving and trust this person, you might feel overwhelmed and unsupported.
Yeah fair enough, I see your point. But that should be offset by the fact that I invited her to go bowling, right? I mean, that's clearly a no-pressure situation. I'm now thinking I need to hammer down that I'm not gonna expect her to go home with me after bowling, maybe saying sth like "I'm not gonna be able to stay whole night though, but a few hours of bowling sounds great!", or sth along those lines.
 

J Wick

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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But that should be offset by the fact that I invited her to go bowling, right? I mean, that's clearly a no-pressure situation. I'm now thinking I need to hammer down that I'm not gonna expect her to go home with me after bowling, maybe saying sth like "I'm not gonna be able to stay whole night though, but a few hours of bowling sounds great!"
Yeah good point. And you brought up the counter point already, "what if we go home together".

If this is indeed the problem, I think the best way would be to address this earlier in your interactions, make things feel easy and fun, or at least show her you're the guru who can take her safely through the next dimensions. Dating is already pretty overwhelming for people, especially for a girl whos only been with 3 guys. I think it can be easy to forget how intimidating socializing can be when you've gone through the gauntlet yourself and things don't faze you anymore. I think it can make you feel a little un-relatable or intimidating to those less socially experienced.

When I think about girls I saw again for a second date these emotions come to mind: curiosity, connection, attraction, a feeling of relatableness/coziness, comfort. But that was what I was feeling.

That being said, I'd consider some other possibilities too. If you can, share some more details about other times second dates haven't panned out.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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There’s one single thing you said about your recent date that stood out to me.

You had her over for 5 hours and didn’t seal the deal.

My guess is that this is your issue: If you’re the high value guy you say you are and that she perceives you as, you have to show that you respect your own time. Otherwise you’re displaying a huge incongruence.

When you pull a girl home, your goal has to be to be to make out with her within 10 minutes.

Then, as you’re escalating to sex, if she gives LMR, try the tactics that I’m sure you’re aware of. None of which should take multiple hours. Dealing with her LMR in this context should be a matter of minutes, not hours.

Then, if she just won’t have sex, that’s it, the night is over. Show her the door. Not in a negative way. Keep it positive, let her know you had a great time. You can even be fully honest with her and let her know that sex is important to you, but you understand if she’s not ready.

If you’re the high value guy you say you are and that she perceives, under no circumstance should you commit 5 hours to a girl in the way you described. You have to show much greater respect for your own time, otherwise it’s a massive incongruence.
 

Gibson

Space Monkey
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There’s one single thing you said about your recent date that stood out to me.

You had her over for 5 hours and didn’t seal the deal.

My guess is that this is your issue: If you’re the high value guy you say you are and that she perceives you as, you have to show that you respect your own time. Otherwise you’re displaying a huge incongruence.

When you pull a girl home, your goal has to be to be to make out with her within 10 minutes.

Then, as you’re escalating to sex, if she gives LMR, try the tactics that I’m sure you’re aware of. None of which should take multiple hours. Dealing with her LMR in this context should be a matter of minutes, not hours.

Then, if she just won’t have sex, that’s it, the night is over. Show her the door. Not in a negative way. Keep it positive, let her know you had a great time. You can even be fully honest with her and let her know that sex is important to you, but you understand if she’s not ready.

If you’re the high value guy you say you are and that she perceives, under no circumstance should you commit 5 hours to a girl in the way you described. You have to show much greater respect for your own time, otherwise it’s a massive incongruence.
Okay, perhaps I didn't specify. I spent ~5 hours with her in total, but she was over at my place for about 2 hours. Before that, we were at a bar for about 2 and a half hours.

Anyway, why would that be incongruent with being high-value? I genuinely enjoyed her company, and sure I wanted sex, but even if I knew for a fact that I wouldn't sleep with her, I would still spend time with her, it was fun.
 

ZacAdam

Cro-Magnon Man
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And it recently happened again. Went out with this girl, 28 year old, beautiful, feminine, and very sweet. We openly talked about kink, bdsm etc, and she admitted that a part of why she broke up with her last bf was he wasn't willing to explore that side of her with her. She told me about the stuff she fantisizes about, like nipple clamps, handcuffs, whips etc. And I know she perceived as high value, on the date she told me that, when I went to the bathroom, she later told me that she texted her friend saying "He's the real deal". She also told me about the moment she knew she liked me - when we were walking towards the bar, I took her by the arm and gently but firmly pulled her to turn the corner, instead of just saying let's turn here. Anyway, without going into too much detail, we went to mine for a glass of wine, made out, spent a total of around 5 hours together, but couldn't close.

She only slept with 3 guys, all were boyfriends, and she knew all of them for months or years as her friend group before she got together with any of them.

So I didn't wanna push it too much, I genuinely enjoyed her company. At some point, she left. Tomorrow texted me as normal, and then the day after, nothing, silence for 3 days. Before that, before the date, she was writing REALLY long messages, like, 15-20 sentences. And suddenly now went silent.

Past State
- boyfriends

Present State
- love BDSM, whatever.
- develop phase moving into harvest phase

Future State
- boyfriend with potential husband role
- bdsm
- biological clock

The guys on Girlchase have solid pointers.

Also, this is her unconscious sales funnel. And no amount of tactics and strategies can change that. Cold Cold as Antarctica radio silence with maximum compliance is the way to go. But I recommend no sex with her more than 2 times if you manage to get her.

How to get maximum compliance? *Below*


p.s: CNN, the video is a joke. I know only you guys can do Mass Formation Psychosis but hey, stay in your lane.

z@c+
 

DonGately

Cro-Magnon Man
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134
Two thoughts: a) She wants to explore bdsm/kink, perhaps even with you but is afraid to do so. She has madonna/whore complex. She's not sure what she is or how to achieve her goals. And there's any # of guys she may have a connection with who'd be willing to tie her up and spank her.

b) Bowling? Really? I doubt many DHV guys go bowling, or maybe that's how she sees it.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Okay, perhaps I didn't specify. I spent ~5 hours with her in total, but she was over at my place for about 2 hours. Before that, we were at a bar for about 2 and a half hours.

Anyway, why would that be incongruent with being high-value? I genuinely enjoyed her company, and sure I wanted sex, but even if I knew for a fact that I wouldn't sleep with her, I would still spend time with her, it was fun.
My comment still applies. A high value guy doesn't have five hours to burn. A high value guy has places to go, people to see. Work, friends, travel, parties, other dates, etc.

I would argue a first date should be no more than 60 minutes. 30 minutes is probably a good baseline to shoot for.

You flirted with this girl and asked her out because you want to fuck the shit out of her. So act like it. Go on the date and do your thing moving things in the direction of sex. If she doesn't want to come over to your place after 30-60 minutes, that's okay, you're a busy guy with an important [thing] to get to, so end the date and let her know you'd like to see her again.

That's how you show you genuinely like her. Not by burning five hours of your day with a stranger you don't know.
 
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Gibson

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
21
Past State
- boyfriends

Present State
- love BDSM, whatever.
- develop phase moving into harvest phase

Future State
- boyfriend with potential husband role
- bdsm
- biological clock

The guys on Girlchase have solid pointers.

Also, this is her unconscious sales funnel. And no amount of tactics and strategies can change that. Cold Cold as Antarctica radio silence with maximum compliance is the way to go. But I recommend no sex with her more than 2 times if you manage to get her.

How to get maximum compliance? *Below*


p.s: CNN, the video is a joke. I know only you guys can do Mass Formation Psychosis but hey, stay in your lane.

z@c+
What do you mean by "radio silence with maximum compliance" I mean I understand radio silence, and I understand maximum compliance, but I don't get how they go together, and what you're actually suggesting
 

Gibson

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
21
My comment still applies. A high value guy doesn't have five hours to burn. A high value guy has places to go, people to see. Work, friends, travel, parties, other dates, etc.

I would argue a first date should be no more than 60 minutes. 30 minutes is probably a good baseline to shoot for.

You flirted with this girl and asked her out because you want to fuck the shit out of her. So act like it. Go on the date and do your thing moving things in the direction of sex. If she doesn't want to come over to your place after 30-60 minutes, that's okay, you're a busy guy with an important [thing] to get to, so end the date and let her know you'd like to see her again.

That's how you show you genuinely like her. Not by burning five hours of your day with a stranger you don't know.
First off, I appreciate you trying to help, so don't get my disagreement the wrong way.

But I feel you're being a little to rigid, with the 30-60 minute rule, and it's not a formula for success (not always anyway).
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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So I'm a decently experienced seducer, having been actively in game for about 3 years, and with a notch count just short of triple digits (exactly 5 short to be exact haha). Not nearly as long/many as some, but still not a newbie.

And there is one thing that I still can't wrap my head around. What to do if you can't make sex happen on the first date.

Of all my first dates, 90% of them end in one of the 2 following ways
1) We have sex on the first date, and the girl (usually, not always) becomes part of my rotation (~80% of all my lays)
2) We don't have sex, and I never see her again.

Number 1 is clear, but number 2 baffles me, and likely not for the reason you think.

I understand, and resonate with the idea of "moving faster", and that generally speaking, the faster you can sleep with the girl, the better. She perceives you as dominant, hot, she had sex with you and enjoyed it (hopefully).

But, what happens with those girls who are more conservative, and who just don't sleep with guys on the first date? I live in Eastern Europe, and a good amount of girls here (not all, but more than half) tend to be that type. And sure, I do my part on the date, frame sex in a non-judgemental way, frame myself as very dominant (which most girls are really attracted to). But some girls just can't bring themselves to sleep with me. They may make out, or even give me a bj (though some also think that's demeaning to women), but no sex.

And it recently happened again. Went out with this girl, 28 year old, beautiful, feminine, and very sweet. We openly talked about kink, bdsm etc, and she admitted that a part of why she broke up with her last bf was he wasn't willing to explore that side of her with her. She told me about the stuff she fantisizes about, like nipple clamps, handcuffs, whips etc. And I know she perceived as high value, on the date she told me that, when I went to the bathroom, she later told me that she texted her friend saying "He's the real deal". She also told me about the moment she knew she liked me - when we were walking towards the bar, I took her by the arm and gently but firmly pulled her to turn the corner, instead of just saying let's turn here. Anyway, without going into too much detail, we went to mine for a glass of wine, made out, spent a total of around 5 hours together, but couldn't close.

She only slept with 3 guys, all were boyfriends, and she knew all of them for months or years as her friend group before she got together with any of them.

So I didn't wanna push it too much, I genuinely enjoyed her company. At some point, she left. Tomorrow texted me as normal, and then the day after, nothing, silence for 3 days. Before that, before the date, she was writing REALLY long messages, like, 15-20 sentences. And suddenly now went silent.

Eventually I asked her if everything's okay, she said "Yeah, I just needed to clear my head and summarize my impressions without your influence". I just said I understood, and changed the topic.

I invited her to go bowling this week because I got the impression she thought I just wanted to fuck her, and she said "Sounds good, but I'm not sure when I'm free :)". I just replied "Me neither. We can specify the day/time in a few days". To be honest, my gut's telling me there's about a 99% chance it's over, we're never gonna see each other again. Which I'm fine with in a sense that she's just another girl, even though I did quite like her, but I'm not fine in a sense that this keeps happening to me, not all the time, but often enough (around 40% of my dates end in a similar way).

The obvious answer would be she wasn't attracted enough, or she didn't perceive enough value in you. But I genuinely don't think that's the reason. I can generally tell when girls don't perceive me as high value enough, I had a date like that 2 weeks ago, when the girl wasn't attracted enough, and ofc nothing happened, but I learned from it, I knew what the issue was. But here with this girl I think that she just wasn't comfortable sleeping with me on the 1st date. Not because it's me, but because of her own beliefs and values. It probably didn't help that we went to mine, and made out, so know she might feel that it's expected of her to put out if she sees me again (hence why I suggested bowling, to make it more lighthearted).

Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for opinions of seducers who are more skilled/more experiences than me. What can I do in these situations and with these girls? The obvious answer is don't make out with them and don't invite them to your house, but how can I know that she wouldn't be cool with that? I saw she was attracted, my game was good, my subcomms/fundamentals were on point, and based on the fact that she was open talking about sex and about her kinks, I assumed she would be cool with it.

So I guess there are 2 questions:

1) Why does this happen - is my thinking right in thinking that girls just feel pressure for the next date when they make out but don't sleep with you?
2) Whatever the reason is, how can I know that a girl would feel that kind of pressure, and that she wouldn't be down to sleep with me on the 1st date, even though she perceived me as high value?


With one caveat, don't tell me it's because they don't perceive me as high value. I know when they do and when they don't (and even when I don't know, I know that I don't know, if that makes sense), and even if you still think that's the reason, just hypothetically, what else could be reason, other than value?

- 5 hours is bad, ideal 1.5 to 2 hours... anything more than that is risky... but 5 and no sex that is kind of bad.... my specualation is that you sell lover but then 5 hours you did not deliver is not congruent with lover.. (but is me speculating) is like after certain time is overkill and she may backward rationalize why in 5 hours nothing happen with a lover candidate, you are coming accross on 5 hours no sex to boyfriend possibility... but then is incongruent with the whole shit, may kill the whole thing.. But even if i am off 5 hours nah...

- to answer 1 i don't remember ever sleeping with ,a girl i never made out with...

- a lot of my lays almost half happen in day 2...


I just think you are losing the girls post date cause you probably get needy in your texting or actions and they can sense your mild onitis... cause this should not happen...
https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...es-if-the-lay-is-not-there-on-the-meet.24739/
i made a post on what to do if the fuck not there, very comprehensive...
 

Gibson

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
21
Two thoughts: a) She wants to explore bdsm/kink, perhaps even with you but is afraid to do so. She has madonna/whore complex. She's not sure what she is or how to achieve her goals. And there's any # of guys she may have a connection with who'd be willing to tie her up and spank her.

b) Bowling? Really? I doubt many DHV guys go bowling, or maybe that's how she sees it.
a) Very possible, but even so, what can I do about that?

b) Bowling is not popular as an activity where I live, 90% of people here have never gone bowling in their lives, so tbh I don't think it's perceived as low value. Even if I'm wrong, the problems started even before I suggested bowling, so worst case scenario, it was a non-factor.
 

Gibson

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
21
- 5 hours is bad, ideal 1.5 to 2 hours... anything more than that is risky... but 5 and no sex that is kind of bad.... my specualation is that you sell lover but then 5 hours you did not deliver is not congruent with lover.. (but is me speculating) is like after certain time is overkill and she may backward rationalize why in 5 hours nothing happen with a lover candidate, you are coming accross on 5 hours no sex to boyfriend possibility... but then is incongruent with the whole shit, may kill the whole thing.. But even if i am off 5 hours nah...

- to answer 1 i don't remember ever sleeping with ,a girl i never made out with...

- a lot of my lays almost half happen in day 2...


I just think you are losing the girls post date cause you probably get needy in your texting or actions and they can sense your mild onitis... cause this should not happen...
https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...es-if-the-lay-is-not-there-on-the-meet.24739/
i made a post on what to do if the fuck not there, very comprehensive...
I didn't understand this sentence "to answer 1 i don't remember ever sleeping with ,a girl i never made out with..." - could you rephrase it?

"I just think you are losing the girls post date cause you probably get needy in your texting or actions and they can sense your mild onitis... cause this should not happen..." - could be. I would say I definitely get worse at texting after the first date, I feel like I've invested a certain amount of time/energy, and it would feel worse it all goes to waste, whereas I'm completely okay if I never actually go on a 1st date with a girl (if she rejects me over text). Still, I think that here, she went radio silent even before I had a chance to... show my neediness over text, let's say.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Messages
2,216
Location
South Florida
I didn't understand this sentence "to answer 1 i don't remember ever sleeping with ,a girl i never made out with..." - could you rephrase it?

"I just think you are losing the girls post date cause you probably get needy in your texting or actions and they can sense your mild onitis... cause this should not happen..." - could be. I would say I definitely get worse at texting after the first date, I feel like I've invested a certain amount of time/energy, and it would feel worse it all goes to waste, whereas I'm completely okay if I never actually go on a 1st date with a girl (if she rejects me over text). Still, I think that here, she went radio silent even before I had a chance to... show my neediness over text, let's say.
in other words every girls i slept with i made out with.... Girls i did not make out with i did not sleep with... my point is you are using causation correlation in your narratives.... Now making out is not just a sloopy make out, is like a smooth filled sexual tension type bubble make out...
 

Gibson

Space Monkey
space monkey
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in other words every girls i slept with i made out with.... Girls i did not make out with i did not sleep with... my point is you are using causation correlation in your narratives.... Now making out is not just a sloopy make out, is like a smooth filled sexual tension type bubble make out...
For me it's the opposite. In those (rare) occasions when I sleep with a girl but NOT on the first date, almost always we didn't make out on the first date.
 

sab

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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39
a) Very possible, but even so, what can I do about that?

b) Bowling is not popular as an activity where I live, 90% of people here have never gone bowling in their lives, so tbh I don't think it's perceived as low value. Even if I'm wrong, the problems started even before I suggested bowling, so worst case scenario, it was a non-factor.
FWIW. Several bowling places in my area have closed down due to declining attendance even before Covid.
 

ZacAdam

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
5,692
I mean I understand radio silence, and I understand maximum compliance, but I don't get how they go together, and what you're actually suggesting

She's in limbo/static.

She saw that you can be both her potential husband and also her bdsm dream.

You pushing aggressively will not help. Spending time with her when you don't care about sex, doesn't help you but her because she will slow things down. :)

z@c+
 
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