So I'm a decently experienced seducer, having been actively in game for about 3 years, and with a notch count just short of triple digits (exactly 5 short to be exact haha). Not nearly as long/many as some, but still not a newbie.
And there is one thing that I still can't wrap my head around. What to do if you can't make sex happen on the first date.
Of all my first dates, 90% of them end in one of the 2 following ways
1) We have sex on the first date, and the girl (usually, not always) becomes part of my rotation (~80% of all my lays)
2) We don't have sex, and I never see her again.
Number 1 is clear, but number 2 baffles me, and likely not for the reason you think.
I understand, and resonate with the idea of "moving faster", and that generally speaking, the faster you can sleep with the girl, the better. She perceives you as dominant, hot, she had sex with you and enjoyed it (hopefully).
But, what happens with those girls who are more conservative, and who just don't sleep with guys on the first date? I live in Eastern Europe, and a good amount of girls here (not all, but more than half) tend to be that type. And sure, I do my part on the date, frame sex in a non-judgemental way, frame myself as very dominant (which most girls are really attracted to). But some girls just can't bring themselves to sleep with me. They may make out, or even give me a bj (though some also think that's demeaning to women), but no sex.
And it recently happened again. Went out with this girl, 28 year old, beautiful, feminine, and very sweet. We openly talked about kink, bdsm etc, and she admitted that a part of why she broke up with her last bf was he wasn't willing to explore that side of her with her. She told me about the stuff she fantisizes about, like nipple clamps, handcuffs, whips etc. And I know she perceived as high value, on the date she told me that, when I went to the bathroom, she later told me that she texted her friend saying "He's the real deal". She also told me about the moment she knew she liked me - when we were walking towards the bar, I took her by the arm and gently but firmly pulled her to turn the corner, instead of just saying let's turn here. Anyway, without going into too much detail, we went to mine for a glass of wine, made out, spent a total of around 5 hours together, but couldn't close.
She only slept with 3 guys, all were boyfriends, and she knew all of them for months or years as her friend group before she got together with any of them.
So I didn't wanna push it too much, I genuinely enjoyed her company. At some point, she left. Tomorrow texted me as normal, and then the day after, nothing, silence for 3 days. Before that, before the date, she was writing REALLY long messages, like, 15-20 sentences. And suddenly now went silent.
Eventually I asked her if everything's okay, she said "Yeah, I just needed to clear my head and summarize my impressions without your influence". I just said I understood, and changed the topic.
I invited her to go bowling this week because I got the impression she thought I just wanted to fuck her, and she said "Sounds good, but I'm not sure when I'm free ". I just replied "Me neither. We can specify the day/time in a few days". To be honest, my gut's telling me there's about a 99% chance it's over, we're never gonna see each other again. Which I'm fine with in a sense that she's just another girl, even though I did quite like her, but I'm not fine in a sense that this keeps happening to me, not all the time, but often enough (around 40% of my dates end in a similar way).
The obvious answer would be she wasn't attracted enough, or she didn't perceive enough value in you. But I genuinely don't think that's the reason. I can generally tell when girls don't perceive me as high value enough, I had a date like that 2 weeks ago, when the girl wasn't attracted enough, and ofc nothing happened, but I learned from it, I knew what the issue was. But here with this girl I think that she just wasn't comfortable sleeping with me on the 1st date. Not because it's me, but because of her own beliefs and values. It probably didn't help that we went to mine, and made out, so know she might feel that it's expected of her to put out if she sees me again (hence why I suggested bowling, to make it more lighthearted).
Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for opinions of seducers who are more skilled/more experiences than me. What can I do in these situations and with these girls? The obvious answer is don't make out with them and don't invite them to your house, but how can I know that she wouldn't be cool with that? I saw she was attracted, my game was good, my subcomms/fundamentals were on point, and based on the fact that she was open talking about sex and about her kinks, I assumed she would be cool with it.
So I guess there are 2 questions:
1) Why does this happen - is my thinking right in thinking that girls just feel pressure for the next date when they make out but don't sleep with you?
2) Whatever the reason is, how can I know that a girl would feel that kind of pressure, and that she wouldn't be down to sleep with me on the 1st date, even though she perceived me as high value?
With one caveat, don't tell me it's because they don't perceive me as high value. I know when they do and when they don't (and even when I don't know, I know that I don't know, if that makes sense), and even if you still think that's the reason, just hypothetically, what else could be reason, other than value?
And there is one thing that I still can't wrap my head around. What to do if you can't make sex happen on the first date.
Of all my first dates, 90% of them end in one of the 2 following ways
1) We have sex on the first date, and the girl (usually, not always) becomes part of my rotation (~80% of all my lays)
2) We don't have sex, and I never see her again.
Number 1 is clear, but number 2 baffles me, and likely not for the reason you think.
I understand, and resonate with the idea of "moving faster", and that generally speaking, the faster you can sleep with the girl, the better. She perceives you as dominant, hot, she had sex with you and enjoyed it (hopefully).
But, what happens with those girls who are more conservative, and who just don't sleep with guys on the first date? I live in Eastern Europe, and a good amount of girls here (not all, but more than half) tend to be that type. And sure, I do my part on the date, frame sex in a non-judgemental way, frame myself as very dominant (which most girls are really attracted to). But some girls just can't bring themselves to sleep with me. They may make out, or even give me a bj (though some also think that's demeaning to women), but no sex.
And it recently happened again. Went out with this girl, 28 year old, beautiful, feminine, and very sweet. We openly talked about kink, bdsm etc, and she admitted that a part of why she broke up with her last bf was he wasn't willing to explore that side of her with her. She told me about the stuff she fantisizes about, like nipple clamps, handcuffs, whips etc. And I know she perceived as high value, on the date she told me that, when I went to the bathroom, she later told me that she texted her friend saying "He's the real deal". She also told me about the moment she knew she liked me - when we were walking towards the bar, I took her by the arm and gently but firmly pulled her to turn the corner, instead of just saying let's turn here. Anyway, without going into too much detail, we went to mine for a glass of wine, made out, spent a total of around 5 hours together, but couldn't close.
She only slept with 3 guys, all were boyfriends, and she knew all of them for months or years as her friend group before she got together with any of them.
So I didn't wanna push it too much, I genuinely enjoyed her company. At some point, she left. Tomorrow texted me as normal, and then the day after, nothing, silence for 3 days. Before that, before the date, she was writing REALLY long messages, like, 15-20 sentences. And suddenly now went silent.
Eventually I asked her if everything's okay, she said "Yeah, I just needed to clear my head and summarize my impressions without your influence". I just said I understood, and changed the topic.
I invited her to go bowling this week because I got the impression she thought I just wanted to fuck her, and she said "Sounds good, but I'm not sure when I'm free ". I just replied "Me neither. We can specify the day/time in a few days". To be honest, my gut's telling me there's about a 99% chance it's over, we're never gonna see each other again. Which I'm fine with in a sense that she's just another girl, even though I did quite like her, but I'm not fine in a sense that this keeps happening to me, not all the time, but often enough (around 40% of my dates end in a similar way).
The obvious answer would be she wasn't attracted enough, or she didn't perceive enough value in you. But I genuinely don't think that's the reason. I can generally tell when girls don't perceive me as high value enough, I had a date like that 2 weeks ago, when the girl wasn't attracted enough, and ofc nothing happened, but I learned from it, I knew what the issue was. But here with this girl I think that she just wasn't comfortable sleeping with me on the 1st date. Not because it's me, but because of her own beliefs and values. It probably didn't help that we went to mine, and made out, so know she might feel that it's expected of her to put out if she sees me again (hence why I suggested bowling, to make it more lighthearted).
Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for opinions of seducers who are more skilled/more experiences than me. What can I do in these situations and with these girls? The obvious answer is don't make out with them and don't invite them to your house, but how can I know that she wouldn't be cool with that? I saw she was attracted, my game was good, my subcomms/fundamentals were on point, and based on the fact that she was open talking about sex and about her kinks, I assumed she would be cool with it.
So I guess there are 2 questions:
1) Why does this happen - is my thinking right in thinking that girls just feel pressure for the next date when they make out but don't sleep with you?
2) Whatever the reason is, how can I know that a girl would feel that kind of pressure, and that she wouldn't be down to sleep with me on the 1st date, even though she perceived me as high value?
With one caveat, don't tell me it's because they don't perceive me as high value. I know when they do and when they don't (and even when I don't know, I know that I don't know, if that makes sense), and even if you still think that's the reason, just hypothetically, what else could be reason, other than value?
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