This Girl Is Crazy Or Something?

NarrowJ

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So, this *very* attractive girl approaches me at a bar last week and makes what I think is a fairly lame excuse to talk to me (she says she wants to know where her and her friend should get food, what's nearby etcetera). She could have asked anybody this, and she's giggling like a teenager as she's asking me. The girl she is with is standing over by their table and is trying to act like she's not watching us, but she is (and she's smiling to herself). I go through the motions quickly and name off a few places. Anyway, I continue the conversation and eventually me and my friend end up at their table talking. I knew she looked really put together, and it turns out she actually has a degree in Kinesiology, is a personal trainer and has done some fitness modeling and female fitness competitions. Very cool. It's a weeknight and they have to leave, so I number close.

Next afternoon I text her like I would any other girl. She's 26 years old, but while texting her I'm wondering about her social savviness because she seems to be really flighty and she jumps from subject to subject just saying random ass things. Anyway, to close out our initial text convo- I ask her out. My text is this: "Well hey, let's grab some food sometime or a couple drinks if you're down! :)" and she doesn't respond until the next morning. Her response, though, is a big sprawling text telling me about visiting her mom next month in Idaho, and ends with "Yeah, that would be great. What do you have in mind?", which is weird because I told her exactly what I had in mind (dinner/drinks). Is that a deflection?

Anyway, since she waited until next day to respond, I don't text her back until like 8 that evening. I say the Idaho trip sounds nice, and repeat my offer "Just dinner and/or a drink or two. Keep it simple, right? :)" and then she again doesn't respond until the next day, about lunch time. Her text doesn't make any sense either. Her response is like "Hey NJ, have you lost interest already?? Haha jk how was your day?" Doesn't respond at all to the date request. This is most definitely a deflection. And what is with the "have you lost interest already" bit?

So I decide to put her off, give her a day of radio silence. I text her two days later and we have another short convo that again ends with me offering a date, but I figure I'll offer something different this time. I offer the lower pressure "lunch or coffee" date. I tell her to let me know when she's free so we can meet up. Her last text to me is: "haha will do! Have a good night, NJ :)" I decide to completely write her off at this point.

The next evening she initiates a text convo, but the initial message from her is just "Hey". I wait 2 hours to respond, and I text back: "Hey, how was the play?" (she was going to a play), and we text back and forth a couple times and eventually I send her this: "So what's your schedule like? We should do lunch/dinner/something soon :)" and she replies "haha yes we should" but doesn't give me her schedule. So against my better judgement, I decide to tell her when I'M free instead. I reply "I could do Tues or Thurs next week. Or lunch any day except Wed", and she says "When do you do lunch? I have weekly meetings over lunch on Tue and Thurs" so I clarify that I meant I was free AFTER WORK on Tues and Thurs (even though it should have been obvious). She then just replies "Ahh I gotcha" but doesn't choose a day. That was last night, I didn't reply to her at all after that.

She approached me like a little high school girl in the cafeteria would approach the quarterback of the football team, is bubbly, engaged/engaging with me, seems so excited over text. She even initiates texting, but for some reason I can't get her out! I've had this happen before, where a girl tries to get you chasing her around. Chase told me to just lightly scold her like "You know, I've never really been very good at chasing people around. And you're trying to make me! But, I don't want to :) So if you are going to be free sometime soon you let me know, ok?"


Do you guys have this happen a lot? How many times should you let the girl deflect before employing the above strategy? Doing it too soon might seem kind of off-putting to her?

-NJ
 

Marty

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(comment withdrawn as I don't feel qualified to make it)
 

ZacAdam

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J,

NarrowJ said:
Do you guys have this happen a lot? How many times should you let the girl deflect before employing the above strategy? Doing it too soon might seem kind of off-putting to her?

There's three types of girls like this. They all play hard to get.

1) Not a lot of guys chasing her. thus playing the wit but negative text game where nobody wins.
2) She's a dramatic girl, She used to date guys who treat her like shit. Now she is finding one she can contain.
3) She's in a club, she's bored and she's showing to other guys who don't know about women that you texting her.

Not an ideal catch but sometimes you can get them out. I believe you did the right thing. Maybe other people have their opinions.

Zac
 

NarrowJ

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Marty,

I'm sure you've ran into your fair share of girls that are "book smart", but have absolutely no clue when it comes to social stuff. She definitely comes off as that type, with the whole "high school" type of approaching me with some lame excuse to start a conversation while her girlfriend looks on in embarrassment.


Zac,

I'd rule #1 out entirely. She has a cute face and an absolutely dynamite body. Of course #2 could be it, but like Marty says above- she seems like she just has absolutely no idea what she is doing. You never can tell, but I wouldn't really peg her for #3 either.


I'm going to send her the "light scolding" text soon, and will let you guys know what happens :)

NJ
 

ZacAdam

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Logically she doesn't want you, playing it safe, maybe she just got out of a relationship but her emotions is telling this guy is worth noting.

NarrowJ said:
Her response is like "Hey NJ, have you lost interest already?? Haha jk how was your day?" Doesn't respond at all to the date request. This is most definitely a deflection. And what is with the "have you lost interest already" bit?

It's like she lack some social awareness but it also tells me that she see you as low value, because she's hot and has a degree. IT must be something off with your approach or the display of your value and her value.

If she knows what she is doing, She got a boyfriend she ain't leaving just yet.

Zac
 

NarrowJ

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ZacAdam said:
It's like she lack some social awareness but it also tells me that she see you as low value, because she's hot and has a degree. IT must be something off with your approach or the display of your value and her value.


This is entirely possible, however I was high enough value from a fundamentals standpoint that she approached me in a flirtatious way which prompted me to then lead an interaction to the point of securing a date and her phone #. Maybe I did something during the interaction that reduced my value? I can't think of anything. Or maybe its some kind of weird auto-rejection where she subsequently starts thinking about how she had to approach me instead of the other way around? I honestly had saw her, but didn't approach her because she and her friend looked deep in conversation and the place we were at is more of a "after work cocktail" type of place, very professional people and environment.

It's a real head-scratcher, with this one :)
 

Richard

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NJ,
I agree with Zac, not an ideal catch, and you're usually so good with women, whenever I read anything you write, its solid. So I'm a bit surprised because one thing was wrong, and my gut feeling is there's another mistake.
1- Many people told me this when I started out, had a beautiful Puerto Rican say yes when I asked her out, I made one subtle mistake that ruined it all... it was "sometime." When you say "sometime" with a date proposition the girl can say yes with no repercussions because she hasn't agreed to anything concrete. Here's Franco's take on a similar situation:

https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1826&p=9123#p9123

Basically, I would've wrote her off after the second or third indirect reponse to you asking her to do something. You gave her a lot of the say in when you two would meet (sometime, text me when YOU'RE free). Little things like that sway the power quite substantially.

2- Just a gut feeling so I may be wrong, but it sounds like your disappointment/anger got the best of you, and you started to chase her a bit. Perhaps she got you roused on purpose. Her texting actually seemed to have purpose behind it, and it got you roused enough to let her make the decision. Sounds like it may have been a game to her, maybe a dare from her drunken friend, who knows. I would write her off and move on, unless she decided to text you first from now, Id let her be.

Let us know how it turns out,
Richard
 

NarrowJ

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Zphix,

Agree on pretty much everything you wrote there, except-

To clarify:

NJ,
Basically, I would've wrote her off after the second or third indirect reponse to you asking her to do something.

Yeah, I did write her off after the third deflection. She initiated a text convo with me the following night, however. So I went ahead and asked again.


You gave her a lot of the say in when you two would meet (sometime, text me when YOU'RE free). Little things like that sway the power quite substantially.

And that's not really how I do things, I guess. I always tell a girl "We should grab a drink sometime!" and not "We should grab a drink on Tuesday!" because then if she can't, you have to chase her through her schedule. I thought that's what the guys here recommend? You have her give you her schedule, and then you pick a day? I may be misunderstanding you on this, though.


NJ
 

Richard

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Alright J, another short post, this is my overall synopsis of the situations. Originally, I said maybe it was a drunken dare, or whatever it was that attracted her enough to come talk to you specifically at the bar. It's her degree ;) I skimmed over that part! Kinesiology is the scientific study of human movement and includes physiology, mechanics, and psychology, if this girl has a degree she knows how to interact to get what she wants (psychological component). However, your fundamentals are probably what attracted her, she knows how to dissect human movement/ posture, and knows how the slight differences relate to social power. You're posture or physical composure at the bar may have been enough for her to learn that you're a more powerful and thus more of a prize than other men at the bar.
 

ZacAdam

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J, Zphix,

My thoughts,

I had list the three types of girl,

1) Not a lot of guys chasing her. thus playing the wit but negative text game where nobody wins.
2) She's a dramatic girl, She used to date guys who treat her like shit. Now she is finding one she can contain.
3) She's in a club, she's bored and she's showing to other guys who don't know about women that you texting her.

and another two

4) She thinks she's higher in value than you.
5) She probably got a loving boyfriend she ain't leaving yet.

I want to share with you guys something on the last point, if she is really number 5.

This kind of girls are also loyal, loving, flirtatious and hot. I had girls like this who likes flirting and play hard to get. They know how to pull the strings and draw the line, but to tell you, this kind of girls, if she is number 5, she's a quality girl. A real quality girl.

and she got a loving boyfriend she ain't leaving yet, and that sucks. :(

Zac
 

Richard

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Funny how I keep writing a post while somebody else finishes before me throwing my post off a little, anyway, this one is in response to your "clarification."

And that's not really how I do things, I guess. I always tell a girl "We should grab a drink sometime!" and not "We should grab a drink on Tuesday!" because then if she can't, you have to chase her through her schedule. I thought that's what the guys here recommend? You have her give you her schedule, and then you pick a day? I may be misunderstanding you on this, though.

I completely agree with you, you don't ask for specific days, but from what I've learned from Franco ( from the link ) is that you shouldn't say "sometime" either because it's not concrete. By concrete I don't mean Tuesday, by concrete I mean "soon, this week." Concreteness is used to lock down a solid period of time (a week, or soon).

With you however, you're fundamentals are solid, and you're game is obviously very solid, so, when you say sometime, girls want to meet you, and will strive to make the time to meet you, so, you don't meet the resistance you did this time. If you change up your text ever so slightly, and say "sometime soon," it won't affect the girls who really want you, but it will weed out the girls who are only playing (like this girl)
 

NarrowJ

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Zphix said:
Funny how I keep writing a post while somebody else finishes before me throwing my post off a little, anyway, this one is in response to your "clarification."

And that's not really how I do things, I guess. I always tell a girl "We should grab a drink sometime!" and not "We should grab a drink on Tuesday!" because then if she can't, you have to chase her through her schedule. I thought that's what the guys here recommend? You have her give you her schedule, and then you pick a day? I may be misunderstanding you on this, though.

I completely agree with you, you don't ask for specific days, but from what I've learned from Franco ( from the link ) is that you shouldn't say "sometime" either because it's not concrete. By concrete I don't mean Tuesday, by concrete I mean "soon, this week." Concreteness is used to lock down a solid period of time (a week, or soon).

With you however, you're fundamentals are solid, and you're game is obviously very solid, so, when you say sometime, girls want to meet you, and will strive to make the time to meet you, so, you don't meet the resistance you did this time. If you change up your text ever so slightly, and say "sometime soon," it won't affect the girls who really want you, but it will weed out the girls who are only playing (like this girl)

Thanks for the clarification there! That is good advice :)
 

ZacAdam

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Zphix said:
Funny how I keep writing a post while somebody else finishes before me throwing my post off a little, anyway, this one is in response to your "clarification."

Seems like it happen to me too. Anyway I hope J got the message. It's not about who is "right". :) Just J's clarifications.

Zac
 

NarrowJ

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Zac,

I am going to go with your #4 above. I think something I did made her see me as lower value. I don't really know what it was, but the signs are certainly there.

Very nice outline of the types of women that do this, by the way! You break things down quite well. That is great, very informative.

NJ
 

Marty

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A real puzzle this one... this thread is on fire. As everyone else said, judging by all your other posts, NJ, your fundamentals and game must be off the charts (see the Macy's post if there is any doubt on this one), and the girl invested extra by approaching, so #4 seems counterintuitive. #5 seems possible: a really cool and high value girl playing with a man from what seems like a "safe distance", only to be dismayed when he escalates. I've taken married women on dates after making it painfully obvious that I like them as a woman, no possibility of confusing it for a social or professional thing or anything else, and they still push back after, pretending they thought we were just going as colleagues; they just hanker after the validation. I can see in their eyes afterward that they still like me.

Zphix, great link to Franco's answer, I'll remember in future that the "some time" expression can make women doubt whether you really mean business.
 

NarrowJ

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Marty said:
(comment withdrawn as I don't feel qualified to make it)

Marty,

Don't feel like you can't comment because you don't feel "qualified" to do so! Everyone's opinions are valued here. I've found I can learn a little bit from everyone, as we all have things we are just good at. We may not always agree on everything, but that's what message boards are for- good spirited debate :) Of course there will always be people that will not be satisfied until you agree with them 100%, like even if you agree 70% or 99% it's not good enough and they'll keep on until you just "agree completely". Every forum has these types of people, GC is no different. This is a wonderful place to learn and participate in all kinds of discussion and your thoughts are most welcome here!

Also, it seems as though we've addressed every minute detail in this thread regarding the girl except the original questions that I posed in the topic opener :) haha

NJ
 

ZacAdam

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NarrowJ said:
Also, it seems as though we've addressed every minute detail in this thread regarding the girl except the original questions that I posed in the topic opener :) haha

It doesn't happen to me a lot, but if it is, i know she's not interested, a gut feeling. I still try to get her out and use "scolding", "negs" as last resort.

My thoughts is The deflection thing is something that only happens when girls are

1) Not interested. (Girl number 3)
2) Autopilot - Don't know what she is doing, Also not socially aware and inexperienced
3) Playing with you/Sexually Experienced. (Girl number 2,4,5)
4) Playing with you/Average Experienced (Girl number 1)

IF deflection happens after two times, happens consecutively, all the reasons above should be considered. :)

My take, (until Chase comes here! HAHA. I am sure Chase will read this some time and give his thoughts, I hope so. :))

Zac
 

Richard

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A little off topic this late in the responses, but yes Marty, don't be afraid to voice your opinion. Every post is an opportunity to learn, and I've learned more from posting something that I thought was right, only to have Franco, Light, Ross, or even Chase come in and either tell me I nailed it, or 9/10 prove me wrong. Everything on this forum is a learning experience, and like J suggested, everyone can learn from everyone. Don't take the ranking system too seriously either ;)

Then, on to Zac. Great advice about your categorization of women, and I've found that it's absolutely true. Great job breaking down women, I've found that their category (though I don't categorize until after the fact) is a great way to determine what they'll do in a situation (as you've posted). I'd delve into a little deeper water by introducing the 16 personalities (based on the Jung-Briggs personality studies) and how it affects emotion/ relations but that is a post for another day when I have an hour or two free.

-As always,
Richard
 

NarrowJ

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Zphix said:
Don't take the ranking system too seriously either ;)

I always wondered about that. It must not go by post count? Do the moderators apply them or something?

EDIT: found it --> boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=32


And guys, I haven't sent her the text yet. What should I say? I may wait for her to text me first again before saying it :)


NJ
 
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