FU Wanted 2 in a day, got 0

[ChrisXKiss]

Background

I was in a big southern European city for a small trip, and as I usually do in the middle of sightseeing I made some approaches.

Generally in these situations I can get fairly tired by walking around a lot to see the attractions, not sleeping well to go out at night, and even not eating very properly to save time going from one place to the other.

The extreme heat was an added bonus, so I’d say that my general vibe in some of the approaches was not the best, I can realise it though and adjust, so I did have some good ones eventually.

Blond approach

I met the first blond girl on the first day, a bit after noon. I was going to visit my first attraction and saw her walking towards me.

I street stopped her telling her how feminine she looked. She had a flowery dress that really made her cute. She stopped and I could feel by her energy that she was interested in some way at least.

I learned that she was there alone, staying for few days for vacation too, and that she conserves books and was having a workshop in a nearby town before.

The rest of the conservation was about our plans for the day, with some playful moments regarding where we come from, and that gladly we found each other under some shadow, so nothing too crazy, but I could feel that there was something there.

So I proposed we exchange contacts and we could catch up later in the evening, I said I was checking some nice bars around so maybe we go to one. She agreed we exchanged contacts and parted ways.

Latina approach

In the attraction site after few not very well received approaches in between, I saw the second girl the latina one chilling by herself at some open window.

I went close and sat next to her facing outside, and said that this little breeze there was so refreshing. She responded to the ping saying that yeah it’s so hot, and I could feel by her voice that it wasn’t just polite but she could be open.

So I got into getting to know her, she was from latin america, first trip so far away, and was also staying in the city alone for the same dates I did.

This last one is something I try to learn early because when I am solo I feel it’s way easier to plan to meet another solo traveller.

Her english was not very good, so the communication wasn’t perfect, I tried to keep it a bit playful, gave one two touches, didn’t feel her very comfortable so didn’t push more.

I asked what she was planning, I wanted to go see another attraction and she wanted to go find her place to check in. She was a bit confused about where it was, I teased her saying maybe she needs me to take care of her, I think she got the idea.

So started walking for a bit, had her take some pictures of me in the site, and then we parted ways saying we may catch up that or the next day.

The reason I said that was because I already had the other girl’s number, and another one that went nowhere, so I was trying to figure out how to fit them all in the good scenario that more than one would like to see me.

Texting

The day passed, I sent an icebreaker later to the first girl saying that I hope she survived the heat and to the second that I hope she found her place.

The first texted back that so far she was doing ok, and asked how I enjoyed my visit, I sent her a picture from the area I was, and she said she hoped I had enough water. I arrived at my place and said too easy, they had taps all over and asked how her vibe was for the night.

She said she was eating and asked where I was, I said I just had a shower and that I should be free from 21:30. She said that works, and asked if I had a plan because the area around where she was had a nice atmosphere. I told her I had checked two different rooftop bars, and we can check them. She replied that they look good and we can meet there, so I proposed one of the two, and prepared to go out.

At the same time the second girl had replied to me that she got lost and just made it to her place after few hours. I said I told her not to get lost and next time I’ll have to show her the way, and sent the picture of where I was to which she reacted with a thumbs up. But then I decided not to propose something for that night, since I had the other date already.

Blond first date bar

As I started walking to go meet the first girl I heard and saw some fireworks. Took a picture and sent it to her saying they are liking us too much here, and she responded that they have such an excellent taste, so I was feeling a nice collaborative frame appearing.

We met, went up at the rooftop and sat at a couch. There was some distance between us, she had her bag in the middle, so I touched only minimally there.

We got into talking about each other, I went through some deep diving about how she got into what she does, what she enjoys, what else she values, and she expressed how she loves art drawing, and books. We were connecting well so I also introduced some frames about living the moment and enjoying the life we have, as well as being authentic and open and communicating what you want. I could feel that she was warming up, because I had my arm extended behind her at some point and she leaned back touching it with her neck.

We got into dating a bit too, how meeting someone in person and feeling the energy is way better, held some eye contact a few times, and also had a good inside humour moment.

We started improvising about being both crazy but the only ones who understand each other, saying for example that the stars are islands, which is so obvious since the sky is blue and we should book a spontaneous trip in one of them, or that antarctica is in africa and we should go for a safari there to see polar bears and penguins without forgetting our coats.

Anyway weirdly funny stuff, I had read the latest girls chase article on improv, and got inspired to go all the way since she was playing with it. By the time we finished our drinks we had a pretty good vibe together, so I proposed we go take a walk in the city at night.

One other thing I want to mention here is that after @topcat ’s latest LR, I had in mind to pay attention to how and how much I reward or punish investment. So I was careful throughout the date to show some interest physically or verbally when she seemed to be showing it back and also to take a step back if I felt that she wasn’t there yet.

Blond first date after bar

We went for a walk and we arrived at a central fountain with a lot of people, I proposed we jump over some ropes to go closer faster, making it into a small adventure by taking her hand, and was very happy when I saw that she sat very close to me this time literally touching me.

I started touching more there too, her back, her leg, and we were talking about travelling so I got into an interesting story I have of being arrested in some random country. Around that moment a policeman in fact came to tell us not to sit where we were and go to another place, which was funny because she was telling me how the police found me again, and I was saying that yeah I am too dangerous, not a good influence at all.

We went and sat somewhere else close by and at that moment I wasn’t sure what the next best move would be. We were not very close to either one of our places, and I also had this idea of prolonging the ask home as much as possible, again inspired by @topcat’s LR, thinking that maybe I can reach the point that she proposes it.

The issue is that the only way to continue I could see while staying there outside with the vibe we had, was to kiss her and that’s what I did. I say issue because I feel that generally this releases tension, I prefer to do it in a seduction location, but I couldn’t feel what else I could do out there while keeping the interaction progressing.

She was very happy to kiss me though, had been waiting for it for a while probably, and in fact she initiated a number of kisses herself. I don’t generally get that a lot, so it was good to see that I had gotten her chasing a bit.

After a bit she was yawning so I proposed to walk her home. She had told me earlier that she stays in a place with some other family, so I wanted to show I am really outcome independent and just enjoy her company and want her to go back safe. Again it was part of being more laid back and see if and how much she would chase.

So we walked to her place, stopped at some point for some improv dancing session, exchanged few more kisses, we were holding hands or hugging throughout and eventually arrived outside her door. I wasn’t really holding her down, but she was staying with me and one of the last kisses she gave me was more of a makeout than the rest of them, and I told her that she makes me feel like that but there are people up there, we cannot be alone.

Eventually I told her that maybe I can show her my neighbourhood of the city tomorrow and I know a really good speakeasy there, and we parted ways saying we may see each other again. I also sent her a photo of an icecream I took after leaving, since I had mentioned that and she responded with a bon appetit.

Next day texting

The next day, at some point in the morning I sent her a photo of the place I was visiting and she sent one of where she was. Few hours later in the afternoon she again texted another place she was at, saying she feels like she is in an artist’s heaven, and I joked saying I am almost in heaven after all this walking but it’s worth it. She mentioned how that’s close to the vibe of the churches I visited.

I left it there for few hours, because my plan was to just ask her later how her evening looks to plan to see her again.

In the meantime, I also texted the second girl, sending her a picture of where I was and she responded with a selfie of hers, in front of the same place I was with the other girl the previous day in fact.

Few hours later finishing my sightseeing I told her I saw that last night and asked her where she is now.

She told me she was in her hotel, and then texted: “Just come here”.

Wasn’t sure if this was meaning what I was thinking, but I took it as a sex invitation, and texted: Send location.

She asked where I stay, I gave my address and she said I am so far. I told her to tell me where she is, since I am not at the hotel anyway, and I can come to hang out there.

She said she stays in a hostel so she doesn’t think we can, so I said I stay alone and we can hang at my place.

She responded: So where will see us? Time?

And I gave her a location to go, different to my hotel and told her to meet there at 17:30, I find her and we walk.

Latina meet and pull

All this had me running back to my hotel to get ready to meet her since I was crazy sweating throughout the day and I wanted a shower. My plan was to meet, hang out a bit maybe get some beers from outside and then go to my place and do the rest.

I wanted all this to last until 20:30 at most, because I was planning to meet the other girl again and I was thinking that maybe I could fit them both in a day and even go for 2 lays ideally. I also liked the other girl as a girl more and we were having a good time together so I wanted to see her again if possible.

There was quite some miscommunication though, because instead of coming to the meeting place I sent her, the latina came directly to my place. So we lost some time of figuring out where we were, and I told her to stay where she was and I would come and find her.

With all that, we met about an hour after the initial plan, after 18:30 and we were exactly outside my place, so I figured she came for that, let’s just get in, and I led her in immediately.

Escalation in my place

Probably not the best choice because I really had nothing in my place, offered her some water, and she mentioned how it would be easier with some beer or wine. She also initially sat at the only chair of my small room while I was at the bed, and I realised she wasn’t as ready for it as I had thought.

I took some time to talk about how our days were, asked her what else she is into, but the communication was not very easy in english so I figured it wasn’t the best choice to talk a lot.

She was still wearing her sandals, and told me that she hurt her foot today by slipping, so I told her to take them off and bring it here, and I started giving her some foot massage. Not sure how good it really felt, I was asking her where she wanted it and how much strength, she said that she was feeling a bit better.

Then she asked me what I want, I told her I want to enjoy the moment and life in general, she told me that she is shy, I told her that’s ok I don’t judge and I want her to be comfortable, she will only do what she wants to do and I am enjoying her energy anyway.

I then asked her if she feels comfortable, she said yes, so I told her to come next to me at the bed. She came, sitting a bit far, and told her to give me her foot again. She put it in my lap, and after a bit I just told her to come closer. She did and turned looking at me full of lust asking me what I want, and that point I went in for a kiss.

And in fact it was a heavy makeout, she is latina so of course it was extra passionate, we started groping each other at the bed, I could feel the arousal growing, so I said to myself fuck it just let it go, I came, asked for a second to go to the bath, cleaned myself a bit and returned to continue.

LMR

She had mentioned in the beginning of kissing if I have a condom, I reassured her and then the rest of the escalation was going fine until I arrived at the pussy. We had made out, I had played with her breasts making her pretty excited, I even took my dick out and she sucked it for some seconds, but when I pushed her panties aside and put my finger inside while licking her clitoris she just stopped me.

She basically said something like a no, no, I can’t. And it was pretty strong, she pulled her whole body away, and she kept saying how she is sorry but she can’t do it.

I didn’t push anything because I could feel it was big for her, rested at the bed, told her it is fine, she doesn’t need to worry and she will only do what she enjoys.

I told her I want her to do what feels the best for her, just not decide because she feels she is doing something bad, because it’s not bad, she is simply following her desires. She was not disagreeing but she was saying how she is not that kind of person, and how she has been conservative and thought maybe she can do it and be open like that, but she feels she can’t.

Again the communication in english was not the best, but generally I was relaxed myself giving her space and was mainly telling her to take some time, we can just sit here and talk, nothing needs to happen.

Eventually she did it, she asked me again my name, and then what I do and what else I like, I asked her back and she told me. Earlier we had only mentioned that I like dancing and she likes voleyball but can’t play now because of an injury. And as I said I stupidly decided to save time, that some effort for a small deep dive was not worth it. So I eventually did it after everything happened.

I learned what she does exactly and also told her that she can still do volleyball, if she can’t play she can go and teach others and she said she hadn’t thought about that and that’s really good because it’s the one thing she really likes and she is sad she can’t do it.

Anyway we were connecting more but it was too late, she was feeling embarrassed as well no matter what I was saying to relax her, and she just wanted to go back to her place, so she got dressed and I walked her to the nearby bus station where she came from.

She kept telling me she is sorry, although I was telling her it’s fine and she doesn’t need to be, was asking me if it is the first time this happens, and was telling me what a good guy I am for not pressuring her. We parted ways wishing the best to each other.

Blond girl second date and pull fail

And I went in my place to text the blond girl to go out in the evening.

I told her I love how we think the same way regarding her heaven text and asked how her evening looks. She told me she just went back to her place to sit down after being tired all day. So I told her I am sitting now too but wouldn’t mind a certain someone joining me out later.

After a playful back and forth regarding who this certain someone might be, I proposed we meet at 21:30. She said perfect and asked where, but also said that she can’t stay late because she has an interview in the morning. Of course that wasn’t very promising, but I told her we then have to do the best with our time, and told her where to meet to go to the bar I had mentioned the previous night.

We met, started walking, the vibe was pretty chill, at some point we started holding hands and it was slowly getting more sensual, but nothing more. I didn’t want to kiss very early either.

We went to the bar, had the drinks, talked about random things, we were next to each other and she was turned at an angle towards me, she was responding very well to my touches, generally the energy of the previous night was still there.

Finishing the drinks I proposed a walk around my area. I knew she had to wake up early, it was some kind of niche magazine interview about bookkeeping in fact and she wanted to be fresh, so I thought ok I will try to invite her in for a bit and see.

One mistake I maybe made here is that I went for the first kiss of the night before inviting her home, there was a nice view and I just felt it, she also did it pretty enthusiastically when I started moving towards it.

Then we kept walking, we passed from my place and here I was thinking if it makes sense to be fully outcome independent and not propose a pull and see what she would do, but I couldn’t, I felt I would be lying to myself too much if I let this go without even proposing it.

So I told her that I’d like to spend some more time with her and we can go to my place upstairs. She said no, she has to be back early, I told her I understand and I’ll make sure she is back early and takes a good rest. But she said no again , and I could feel that it was a no about something she really didn’t want to do.

I decided to not press it more. I mean I would love to have had sex with her, but it was a nice time anyway. I guess I could have just left her there and gone to my place but I decided to walk with her again, after playfully having her convince me with some kisses.

What I realised after all this is that I had done basically 0 sex talk with this girl. I had set some frames about enjoying the moment and being spontaneous but what I figured out is that for her even what we lived without the sex was an adventure in itself and she just didn’t feel like she needed the sex. I had in the past similar situations where the girl eventually desires to come even closer sexually, so that’s how I was thinking this could go too, but I feel in the end I made it all extremely romantic.

And the thing is as we were walking all the way back, I won’t lie, I was enjoying her company, she had something very warm for me. Eventually we arrived at her place again, it took quite some time to manage to really say goodbye, it just felt nice being together, but in the end we did and I went back trying to find another ice cream with all this heat.

So long story short, was trying to go for 2 in a day and eventually got 0.

Conclusion

It’s always nice to be getting experiences, that said it is also true that sometimes it feels like results really matter and I didn’t get them here.

Latina

I am pretty sure that with the second girl, the latina one, if I had spent some time outside with her as I was thinking initially to get to know her a bit and make her feel comfortable, it would have worked.

I could have also done it back in my place, I should have realised when she mentioned that she would have preferred some alcohol and that she is shy that at least some sort of connection and bonding would be required to make her feel it’s fine to go for it with me.

I was too focused on getting to it as fast as I could in order to have time for the other girl that I skipped steps that were important eventually.

And mostly I am a bit sad, because it would have been a great experience for her, and she would have felt that having sex with a stranger is not bad and it is beautiful to explore your desires and let go.


Blond

For the blond girl I am not exactly sure what I did wrong and how I should have done things differently.

My plan for this one was to go forward in a way that keeps her anticipating things, and basically have her wanting me as much as possible before making any moves.

And I think it worked, my physical progression was natural and by the time of the kiss I could feel she really wanted it. She also initiated a lot of kisses, and it felt good, since I tend to escalate fast and push things sometimes, so feeling that she really desired, expected and even chased for some of the kisses was good.

That said, I could feel that even the kisses were not heavy make outs, or very sexual, they were softer and more to the sensual side. I tried to increase the intensity one two times but she didn’t reciprocate.

So it is possible that although we had very good chemistry and enjoyed each other she just wasn’t in the mood to do more.

I wonder if I could have put her there with more sex talk, maybe that’s something I should have focused on. I simply decided for this one to go about it way more indirectly, focusing on the vibe, how we feel together and expecting that after all this she would also desire to have sex as a completion, since we wouldn’t be seeing each other again.

And that last part is probably the mistake. I feel we had such a strong connection that in a way it felt better to stay without sex, since that would have brought us so close and would have made the separation too intense. And it felt that nothing was missing at least from her perspective.

She had her summer romance in that city and she was fulfilled with or without sex.

I did think at certain points whether I should just not kiss at all and imply that if she wants it, we have to be in a seduction location, but I wasn't sure how else to progress the interaction with the vibe we had without keeping it stale.

And I also wanted to try deliberately to not invite her to my place early to see if she would suggest it. But by the end I did it, because I couldn’t see any other way to move things forward.

Not sure what is the general solution really, and if I have to try just flirting and not pulling or kissing for a while to see how much the girl is going to make a move and chase me.

I would need to find ways to keep moving things forward and rewarding her investment though and I do struggle to see how to do that when there are moments that she clearly expects you to make a move. Increasing the sex talk could be an answer, just going heavier at it, without giving her much physical contact.

Maybe having her chase completely is not the ultimate answer either and it’s about having her chase enough that when you make the move she really wants you to.

In this context I’d say I didn’t have this blond one chase enough for sex, didn’t even explicitly take the conversation there, and it’s exactly because I thought it is the natural completion of two attracted people who enjoy the moment and are spontaneous during their vacation, but it obviously wasn’t for her.

So sexualising a bit more, while staying at a paced escalation giving her the chance to chase seems like a good approach in general.

Bonus:

As I was walking back that night, I didn’t have much energy to go to a venue, but I was still keeping an eye for any opportunity in the street.

And in fact I noticed a girl with a tight leopard dress walking behind me towards my direction, so I decided to approach.

I slowed down my walk and let her catch up, and when she was next to me I turned and told her she looked extremely feminine.

She was a local and couldn’t fully understand but it wasn’t that bad, she got the idea, and I saw in her eyes that she wouldn’t be uninterested.

She kept walking at the same pace with me and didn’t try to leave, so I continued. I kept a playful smile, seductive eye contact, and focused more on the energy, without anything too intricate verbally.

Can’t exactly describe it, but when I am in this state I can give few word teases and suggestive comments without thinking much about them, and I feel I can sense if there is some reciprocity.

At some point she asked me where I am from, and then she mentioned by herself that I must be a spy or a secret agent. I told her exactly that’s right and she looks like she could be a good bond girl keeping all my secrets.

We were supposed to be getting closer to our places, hers was closer than mine, so I said: let’s steal each other for tonight. At that point she started mentioning how I am a good guy and she has too many secrets.

I said I also have mine, she mentioned how if I was a spy I wouldn’t have told her, and I said I felt we were same kind of people, and asked what her secrets are.

She stopped and told me that she has a price of 50€. I looked at her and told her that I don’t judge that, but I won’t be paying, it doesn’t work for me and I want to make her feel it for real.

She was saying no, only with money, so I grabbed and pulled her in to make out and I could feel she was into it.

Still she was saying only with money though, I kept walking with her telling her that what I want is to give her pleasure and I cannot do that by paying, she was saying she wanted to go home but I could feel she liked me, I even told her that if dick is off limits it’s fine for me, what I want is to make her feel like a woman without the transaction part.

She wasn’t bulging, was telling me 50 for 2 hours, I pulled her in again made out and slapped her butt, she said not in public, so I said then let’s go home. Started walking but she was still refusing.

I tried a yes ladder. Asking her if the night is beautiful, if she enjoyed herself, if she enjoys the time with me, and if she likes kissing me, she said yes to all of these, then I said again let’s go.

She was saying no, she just came back from a client and wants to rest, I said I don’t mind, she was saying she only does it for money or for love, so I playfully said: Don’t you feel the love?

She smiled, but wasn’t giving in, so for a hail mary I went for a heavy make out, squeezing her body on mine, while pulling her hair, saying: this gets you really horny doesn’t it?, and I could feel the lust in her breathing.

However she still said she will go home and wishes me good night, and at this point I felt it would be too much to keep following her around, and decided to let her be and go find my ice-cream.

So trying to get it for free with the prostitute didn’t work either, but at least it was fun, and I am happy I gave her some moments of real desire.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Background

I was in a big southern European city for a small trip, and as I usually do in the middle of sightseeing I made some approaches.

Generally in these situations I can get fairly tired by walking around a lot to see the attractions, not sleeping well to go out at night, and even not eating very properly to save time going from one place to the other.

The extreme heat was an added bonus, so I’d say that my general vibe in some of the approaches was not the best, I can realise it though and adjust, so I did have some good ones eventually.

Blond approach

I met the first blond girl on the first day, a bit after noon. I was going to visit my first attraction and saw her walking towards me.

I street stopped her telling her how feminine she looked. She had a flowery dress that really made her cute. She stopped and I could feel by her energy that she was interested in some way at least.

I learned that she was there alone, staying for few days for vacation too, and that she conserves books and was having a workshop in a nearby town before.

The rest of the conservation was about our plans for the day, with some playful moments regarding where we come from, and that gladly we found each other under some shadow, so nothing too crazy, but I could feel that there was something there.

So I proposed we exchange contacts and we could catch up later in the evening, I said I was checking some nice bars around so maybe we go to one. She agreed we exchanged contacts and parted ways.

Latina approach

In the attraction site after few not very well received approaches in between, I saw the second girl the latina one chilling by herself at some open window.

I went close and sat next to her facing outside, and said that this little breeze there was so refreshing. She responded to the ping saying that yeah it’s so hot, and I could feel by her voice that it wasn’t just polite but she could be open.

So I got into getting to know her, she was from latin america, first trip so far away, and was also staying in the city alone for the same dates I did.

This last one is something I try to learn early because when I am solo I feel it’s way easier to plan to meet another solo traveller.

Her english was not very good, so the communication wasn’t perfect, I tried to keep it a bit playful, gave one two touches, didn’t feel her very comfortable so didn’t push more.

I asked what she was planning, I wanted to go see another attraction and she wanted to go find her place to check in. She was a bit confused about where it was, I teased her saying maybe she needs me to take care of her, I think she got the idea.

So started walking for a bit, had her take some pictures of me in the site, and then we parted ways saying we may catch up that or the next day.

The reason I said that was because I already had the other girl’s number, and another one that went nowhere, so I was trying to figure out how to fit them all in the good scenario that more than one would like to see me.

Texting

The day passed, I sent an icebreaker later to the first girl saying that I hope she survived the heat and to the second that I hope she found her place.

The first texted back that so far she was doing ok, and asked how I enjoyed my visit, I sent her a picture from the area I was, and she said she hoped I had enough water. I arrived at my place and said too easy, they had taps all over and asked how her vibe was for the night.

She said she was eating and asked where I was, I said I just had a shower and that I should be free from 21:30. She said that works, and asked if I had a plan because the area around where she was had a nice atmosphere. I told her I had checked two different rooftop bars, and we can check them. She replied that they look good and we can meet there, so I proposed one of the two, and prepared to go out.

At the same time the second girl had replied to me that she got lost and just made it to her place after few hours. I said I told her not to get lost and next time I’ll have to show her the way, and sent the picture of where I was to which she reacted with a thumbs up. But then I decided not to propose something for that night, since I had the other date already.

Blond first date bar

As I started walking to go meet the first girl I heard and saw some fireworks. Took a picture and sent it to her saying they are liking us too much here, and she responded that they have such an excellent taste, so I was feeling a nice collaborative frame appearing.

We met, went up at the rooftop and sat at a couch. There was some distance between us, she had her bag in the middle, so I touched only minimally there.

We got into talking about each other, I went through some deep diving about how she got into what she does, what she enjoys, what else she values, and she expressed how she loves art drawing, and books. We were connecting well so I also introduced some frames about living the moment and enjoying the life we have, as well as being authentic and open and communicating what you want. I could feel that she was warming up, because I had my arm extended behind her at some point and she leaned back touching it with her neck.

We got into dating a bit too, how meeting someone in person and feeling the energy is way better, held some eye contact a few times, and also had a good inside humour moment.

We started improvising about being both crazy but the only ones who understand each other, saying for example that the stars are islands, which is so obvious since the sky is blue and we should book a spontaneous trip in one of them, or that antarctica is in africa and we should go for a safari there to see polar bears and penguins without forgetting our coats.

Anyway weirdly funny stuff, I had read the latest girls chase article on improv, and got inspired to go all the way since she was playing with it. By the time we finished our drinks we had a pretty good vibe together, so I proposed we go take a walk in the city at night.

One other thing I want to mention here is that after @topcat ’s latest LR, I had in mind to pay attention to how and how much I reward or punish investment. So I was careful throughout the date to show some interest physically or verbally when she seemed to be showing it back and also to take a step back if I felt that she wasn’t there yet.

Blond first date after bar

We went for a walk and we arrived at a central fountain with a lot of people, I proposed we jump over some ropes to go closer faster, making it into a small adventure by taking her hand, and was very happy when I saw that she sat very close to me this time literally touching me.

I started touching more there too, her back, her leg, and we were talking about travelling so I got into an interesting story I have of being arrested in some random country. Around that moment a policeman in fact came to tell us not to sit where we were and go to another place, which was funny because she was telling me how the police found me again, and I was saying that yeah I am too dangerous, not a good influence at all.

We went and sat somewhere else close by and at that moment I wasn’t sure what the next best move would be. We were not very close to either one of our places, and I also had this idea of prolonging the ask home as much as possible, again inspired by @topcat’s LR, thinking that maybe I can reach the point that she proposes it.

The issue is that the only way to continue I could see while staying there outside with the vibe we had, was to kiss her and that’s what I did. I say issue because I feel that generally this releases tension, I prefer to do it in a seduction location, but I couldn’t feel what else I could do out there while keeping the interaction progressing.

She was very happy to kiss me though, had been waiting for it for a while probably, and in fact she initiated a number of kisses herself. I don’t generally get that a lot, so it was good to see that I had gotten her chasing a bit.

After a bit she was yawning so I proposed to walk her home. She had told me earlier that she stays in a place with some other family, so I wanted to show I am really outcome independent and just enjoy her company and want her to go back safe. Again it was part of being more laid back and see if and how much she would chase.

So we walked to her place, stopped at some point for some improv dancing session, exchanged few more kisses, we were holding hands or hugging throughout and eventually arrived outside her door. I wasn’t really holding her down, but she was staying with me and one of the last kisses she gave me was more of a makeout than the rest of them, and I told her that she makes me feel like that but there are people up there, we cannot be alone.

Eventually I told her that maybe I can show her my neighbourhood of the city tomorrow and I know a really good speakeasy there, and we parted ways saying we may see each other again. I also sent her a photo of an icecream I took after leaving, since I had mentioned that and she responded with a bon appetit.

Next day texting

The next day, at some point in the morning I sent her a photo of the place I was visiting and she sent one of where she was. Few hours later in the afternoon she again texted another place she was at, saying she feels like she is in an artist’s heaven, and I joked saying I am almost in heaven after all this walking but it’s worth it. She mentioned how that’s close to the vibe of the churches I visited.

I left it there for few hours, because my plan was to just ask her later how her evening looks to plan to see her again.

In the meantime, I also texted the second girl, sending her a picture of where I was and she responded with a selfie of hers, in front of the same place I was with the other girl the previous day in fact.

Few hours later finishing my sightseeing I told her I saw that last night and asked her where she is now.

She told me she was in her hotel, and then texted: “Just come here”.

Wasn’t sure if this was meaning what I was thinking, but I took it as a sex invitation, and texted: Send location.

She asked where I stay, I gave my address and she said I am so far. I told her to tell me where she is, since I am not at the hotel anyway, and I can come to hang out there.

She said she stays in a hostel so she doesn’t think we can, so I said I stay alone and we can hang at my place.

She responded: So where will see us? Time?

And I gave her a location to go, different to my hotel and told her to meet there at 17:30, I find her and we walk.

Latina meet and pull

All this had me running back to my hotel to get ready to meet her since I was crazy sweating throughout the day and I wanted a shower. My plan was to meet, hang out a bit maybe get some beers from outside and then go to my place and do the rest.

I wanted all this to last until 20:30 at most, because I was planning to meet the other girl again and I was thinking that maybe I could fit them both in a day and even go for 2 lays ideally. I also liked the other girl as a girl more and we were having a good time together so I wanted to see her again if possible.

There was quite some miscommunication though, because instead of coming to the meeting place I sent her, the latina came directly to my place. So we lost some time of figuring out where we were, and I told her to stay where she was and I would come and find her.

With all that, we met about an hour after the initial plan, after 18:30 and we were exactly outside my place, so I figured she came for that, let’s just get in, and I led her in immediately.

Escalation in my place

Probably not the best choice because I really had nothing in my place, offered her some water, and she mentioned how it would be easier with some beer or wine. She also initially sat at the only chair of my small room while I was at the bed, and I realised she wasn’t as ready for it as I had thought.

I took some time to talk about how our days were, asked her what else she is into, but the communication was not very easy in english so I figured it wasn’t the best choice to talk a lot.

She was still wearing her sandals, and told me that she hurt her foot today by slipping, so I told her to take them off and bring it here, and I started giving her some foot massage. Not sure how good it really felt, I was asking her where she wanted it and how much strength, she said that she was feeling a bit better.

Then she asked me what I want, I told her I want to enjoy the moment and life in general, she told me that she is shy, I told her that’s ok I don’t judge and I want her to be comfortable, she will only do what she wants to do and I am enjoying her energy anyway.

I then asked her if she feels comfortable, she said yes, so I told her to come next to me at the bed. She came, sitting a bit far, and told her to give me her foot again. She put it in my lap, and after a bit I just told her to come closer. She did and turned looking at me full of lust asking me what I want, and that point I went in for a kiss.

And in fact it was a heavy makeout, she is latina so of course it was extra passionate, we started groping each other at the bed, I could feel the arousal growing, so I said to myself fuck it just let it go, I came, asked for a second to go to the bath, cleaned myself a bit and returned to continue.

LMR

She had mentioned in the beginning of kissing if I have a condom, I reassured her and then the rest of the escalation was going fine until I arrived at the pussy. We had made out, I had played with her breasts making her pretty excited, I even took my dick out and she sucked it for some seconds, but when I pushed her panties aside and put my finger inside while licking her clitoris she just stopped me.

She basically said something like a no, no, I can’t. And it was pretty strong, she pulled her whole body away, and she kept saying how she is sorry but she can’t do it.

I didn’t push anything because I could feel it was big for her, rested at the bed, told her it is fine, she doesn’t need to worry and she will only do what she enjoys.

I told her I want her to do what feels the best for her, just not decide because she feels she is doing something bad, because it’s not bad, she is simply following her desires. She was not disagreeing but she was saying how she is not that kind of person, and how she has been conservative and thought maybe she can do it and be open like that, but she feels she can’t.

Again the communication in english was not the best, but generally I was relaxed myself giving her space and was mainly telling her to take some time, we can just sit here and talk, nothing needs to happen.

Eventually she did it, she asked me again my name, and then what I do and what else I like, I asked her back and she told me. Earlier we had only mentioned that I like dancing and she likes voleyball but can’t play now because of an injury. And as I said I stupidly decided to save time, that some effort for a small deep dive was not worth it. So I eventually did it after everything happened.

I learned what she does exactly and also told her that she can still do volleyball, if she can’t play she can go and teach others and she said she hadn’t thought about that and that’s really good because it’s the one thing she really likes and she is sad she can’t do it.

Anyway we were connecting more but it was too late, she was feeling embarrassed as well no matter what I was saying to relax her, and she just wanted to go back to her place, so she got dressed and I walked her to the nearby bus station where she came from.

She kept telling me she is sorry, although I was telling her it’s fine and she doesn’t need to be, was asking me if it is the first time this happens, and was telling me what a good guy I am for not pressuring her. We parted ways wishing the best to each other.

Blond girl second date and pull fail

And I went in my place to text the blond girl to go out in the evening.

I told her I love how we think the same way regarding her heaven text and asked how her evening looks. She told me she just went back to her place to sit down after being tired all day. So I told her I am sitting now too but wouldn’t mind a certain someone joining me out later.

After a playful back and forth regarding who this certain someone might be, I proposed we meet at 21:30. She said perfect and asked where, but also said that she can’t stay late because she has an interview in the morning. Of course that wasn’t very promising, but I told her we then have to do the best with our time, and told her where to meet to go to the bar I had mentioned the previous night.

We met, started walking, the vibe was pretty chill, at some point we started holding hands and it was slowly getting more sensual, but nothing more. I didn’t want to kiss very early either.

We went to the bar, had the drinks, talked about random things, we were next to each other and she was turned at an angle towards me, she was responding very well to my touches, generally the energy of the previous night was still there.

Finishing the drinks I proposed a walk around my area. I knew she had to wake up early, it was some kind of niche magazine interview about bookkeeping in fact and she wanted to be fresh, so I thought ok I will try to invite her in for a bit and see.

One mistake I maybe made here is that I went for the first kiss of the night before inviting her home, there was a nice view and I just felt it, she also did it pretty enthusiastically when I started moving towards it.

Then we kept walking, we passed from my place and here I was thinking if it makes sense to be fully outcome independent and not propose a pull and see what she would do, but I couldn’t, I felt I would be lying to myself too much if I let this go without even proposing it.

So I told her that I’d like to spend some more time with her and we can go to my place upstairs. She said no, she has to be back early, I told her I understand and I’ll make sure she is back early and takes a good rest. But she said no again , and I could feel that it was a no about something she really didn’t want to do.

I decided to not press it more. I mean I would love to have had sex with her, but it was a nice time anyway. I guess I could have just left her there and gone to my place but I decided to walk with her again, after playfully having her convince me with some kisses.

What I realised after all this is that I had done basically 0 sex talk with this girl. I had set some frames about enjoying the moment and being spontaneous but what I figured out is that for her even what we lived without the sex was an adventure in itself and she just didn’t feel like she needed the sex. I had in the past similar situations where the girl eventually desires to come even closer sexually, so that’s how I was thinking this could go too, but I feel in the end I made it all extremely romantic.

And the thing is as we were walking all the way back, I won’t lie, I was enjoying her company, she had something very warm for me. Eventually we arrived at her place again, it took quite some time to manage to really say goodbye, it just felt nice being together, but in the end we did and I went back trying to find another ice cream with all this heat.

So long story short, was trying to go for 2 in a day and eventually got 0.

Conclusion

It’s always nice to be getting experiences, that said it is also true that sometimes it feels like results really matter and I didn’t get them here.

Latina

I am pretty sure that with the second girl, the latina one, if I had spent some time outside with her as I was thinking initially to get to know her a bit and make her feel comfortable, it would have worked.

I could have also done it back in my place, I should have realised when she mentioned that she would have preferred some alcohol and that she is shy that at least some sort of connection and bonding would be required to make her feel it’s fine to go for it with me.

I was too focused on getting to it as fast as I could in order to have time for the other girl that I skipped steps that were important eventually.

And mostly I am a bit sad, because it would have been a great experience for her, and she would have felt that having sex with a stranger is not bad and it is beautiful to explore your desires and let go.


Blond

For the blond girl I am not exactly sure what I did wrong and how I should have done things differently.

My plan for this one was to go forward in a way that keeps her anticipating things, and basically have her wanting me as much as possible before making any moves.

And I think it worked, my physical progression was natural and by the time of the kiss I could feel she really wanted it. She also initiated a lot of kisses, and it felt good, since I tend to escalate fast and push things sometimes, so feeling that she really desired, expected and even chased for some of the kisses was good.

That said, I could feel that even the kisses were not heavy make outs, or very sexual, they were softer and more to the sensual side. I tried to increase the intensity one two times but she didn’t reciprocate.

So it is possible that although we had very good chemistry and enjoyed each other she just wasn’t in the mood to do more.

I wonder if I could have put her there with more sex talk, maybe that’s something I should have focused on. I simply decided for this one to go about it way more indirectly, focusing on the vibe, how we feel together and expecting that after all this she would also desire to have sex as a completion, since we wouldn’t be seeing each other again.

And that last part is probably the mistake. I feel we had such a strong connection that in a way it felt better to stay without sex, since that would have brought us so close and would have made the separation too intense. And it felt that nothing was missing at least from her perspective.

She had her summer romance in that city and she was fulfilled with or without sex.

I did think at certain points whether I should just not kiss at all and imply that if she wants it, we have to be in a seduction location, but I wasn't sure how else to progress the interaction with the vibe we had without keeping it stale.

And I also wanted to try deliberately to not invite her to my place early to see if she would suggest it. But by the end I did it, because I couldn’t see any other way to move things forward.

Not sure what is the general solution really, and if I have to try just flirting and not pulling or kissing for a while to see how much the girl is going to make a move and chase me.

I would need to find ways to keep moving things forward and rewarding her investment though and I do struggle to see how to do that when there are moments that she clearly expects you to make a move. Increasing the sex talk could be an answer, just going heavier at it, without giving her much physical contact.

Maybe having her chase completely is not the ultimate answer either and it’s about having her chase enough that when you make the move she really wants you to.

In this context I’d say I didn’t have this blond one chase enough for sex, didn’t even explicitly take the conversation there, and it’s exactly because I thought it is the natural completion of two attracted people who enjoy the moment and are spontaneous during their vacation, but it obviously wasn’t for her.

So sexualising a bit more, while staying at a paced escalation giving her the chance to chase seems like a good approach in general.

Bonus:

As I was walking back that night, I didn’t have much energy to go to a venue, but I was still keeping an eye for any opportunity in the street.

And in fact I noticed a girl with a tight leopard dress walking behind me towards my direction, so I decided to approach.

I slowed down my walk and let her catch up, and when she was next to me I turned and told her she looked extremely feminine.

She was a local and couldn’t fully understand but it wasn’t that bad, she got the idea, and I saw in her eyes that she wouldn’t be uninterested.

She kept walking at the same pace with me and didn’t try to leave, so I continued. I kept a playful smile, seductive eye contact, and focused more on the energy, without anything too intricate verbally.

Can’t exactly describe it, but when I am in this state I can give few word teases and suggestive comments without thinking much about them, and I feel I can sense if there is some reciprocity.

At some point she asked me where I am from, and then she mentioned by herself that I must be a spy or a secret agent. I told her exactly that’s right and she looks like she could be a good bond girl keeping all my secrets.

We were supposed to be getting closer to our places, hers was closer than mine, so I said: let’s steal each other for tonight. At that point she started mentioning how I am a good guy and she has too many secrets.

I said I also have mine, she mentioned how if I was a spy I wouldn’t have told her, and I said I felt we were same kind of people, and asked what her secrets are.

She stopped and told me that she has a price of 50€. I looked at her and told her that I don’t judge that, but I won’t be paying, it doesn’t work for me and I want to make her feel it for real.

She was saying no, only with money, so I grabbed and pulled her in to make out and I could feel she was into it.

Still she was saying only with money though, I kept walking with her telling her that what I want is to give her pleasure and I cannot do that by paying, she was saying she wanted to go home but I could feel she liked me, I even told her that if dick is off limits it’s fine for me, what I want is to make her feel like a woman without the transaction part.

She wasn’t bulging, was telling me 50 for 2 hours, I pulled her in again made out and slapped her butt, she said not in public, so I said then let’s go home. Started walking but she was still refusing.

I tried a yes ladder. Asking her if the night is beautiful, if she enjoyed herself, if she enjoys the time with me, and if she likes kissing me, she said yes to all of these, then I said again let’s go.

She was saying no, she just came back from a client and wants to rest, I said I don’t mind, she was saying she only does it for money or for love, so I playfully said: Don’t you feel the love?

She smiled, but wasn’t giving in, so for a hail mary I went for a heavy make out, squeezing her body on mine, while pulling her hair, saying: this gets you really horny doesn’t it?, and I could feel the lust in her breathing.

However she still said she will go home and wishes me good night, and at this point I felt it would be too much to keep following her around, and decided to let her be and go find my ice-cream.

So trying to get it for free with the prostitute didn’t work either, but at least it was fun, and I am happy I gave her some moments of real desire.

I am sure more experienced members on here will give you more pointers about technical details and insights.

But on a very macro level, I feel like when you really "want it" with girls and very invested in making it happen it gives off a kind of vibe that makes women shut down.

When you have a more if it happens it happens, I am just going to enjoy this time and have fun frame. IF you really take it like that, and are not using it as a technique, things get more relaxed and the vibe we put out is different.

This subtly helps women feel relaxed and actually "want" something to happen.

This has just been my experience.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

But on a very macro level, I feel like when you really "want it" with girls and very invested in making it happen it gives off a kind of vibe that makes women shut down.

When you have a more if it happens it happens, I am just going to enjoy this time and have fun frame. IF you really take it like that, and are not using it as a technique, things get more relaxed and the vibe we put out is different.

This subtly helps women feel relaxed and actually "want" something to happen.

Yes I get that, and in general I was fine with just enjoying our time and having fun. I don't think I ever had the vibe I really wanted it to happen with this one. I mean I spent all this time with her and was enjoying it, I cannot imagine that she felt: oh he is doing all that just to get in my pants.

It's just that at some point you start thinking that maybe you should also make a move to go home, because if you are having fun already, you would like that too.

That's what I am questioning basically, how much I should be so outcome independent regarding sex, that I simply enjoy the company of a woman and only get sexual when things naturally lead there.

Is going for the pull or a kiss even needy or outcome dependent, and if yes what should one do if he desires a girl and sees she is attracted, just wait till she clearly shows chasing signals and starts suggesting things or making moves herself?

 

[AspiringStoic]

Yes I get that, and in general I was fine with just enjoying our time and having fun. I don't think I ever had the vibe I really wanted it to happen with this one. I mean I spent all this time with her and was enjoying it, I cannot imagine that she felt: oh he is doing all that just to get in my pants.

It's just that at some point you start thinking that maybe you should also make a move to go home, because if you are having fun already, you would like that too.

That's what I am questioning basically, how much I should be so outcome independent regarding sex, that I simply enjoy the company of a woman and only get sexual when things naturally lead there.

Is going for the pull or a kiss even needy or outcome dependent, and if yes what should one do if he desires a girl and sees she is attracted, just wait till she clearly shows chasing signals and starts suggesting things or making moves herself?

This is a good point. Let me just tell you about my experiences.

I first got into pickup a long time ago. First I only did online and then got into cold approach. So have been going on dates for a long time.

In the beginning, on dates, I always was eager to get "results". Because apart from the natural and healthy desire to have sex, I badly wanted "proof that I was learning seduction and becoming better at this skillset".

I went into every date technique heavy, pre-planned, armed with a detailed game plan. From choosing venues, to going through topics, to having a touch escalation ladder and several other things.

Since I was clueless back then, it gave me something to hold on to and I got some successes. But every date felt like an "exam"!

I would go write the exam and would be under pressure to do well in the exam and then dissect every bit and detail to see where to improve.

But this became exhausting. I was no longer going to connect with another human being but to determine how far my skills had improved. And this started taking a toll.

So when I peeled back a bit and adopted this framework of "if there was no chance of sleeping with this woman, or seeing her again and this 2-3 hours is the only thing I was going to have, then what?"

How would I behave?

What would I talk about?

Where would I go?

Those questions really brought out a different side of me. And I started to speak about things and do stuff that was actually "fun" for me.

This made dates way more enjoyable. I was not anxious because there was no failure. And paradoxically I had way more amazing dates leading to the bedroom.

So as I see you, you are not a total newbie. You are out approaching a lot, you are going on dates.

So if you become so focused on getting a result, you can also run into emotional exhaustion and burn out.

If you are getting so many girls to come out, that means you are already attractive to them. They are interested and that is why they come out to meet you.

So maybe for a few months, just chill out with the strategy, kick back and relax, dig deep down and ask yourself those questions I wrote above.

What would do, how would you behave etc if there was no way you are going to sleep with her. If the date was the only thing you could have. That will put you in the present and in touch with what you really enjoy.

And maybe the results might surprise you.

 

[Spike]

And maybe the results might surprise you.

How many cold approach lays so far this year?

 

[AspiringStoic]

How many cold approach lays so far this year?

-5

 

[gameboy]

3 makeouts in a day is at least a FR+++. Or a PU hat-trick. I know you wanted a lay, or two, but to label this report a FU seems a bit humble!

 

[Skills]

@ChrisXKiss it was ok i will give you some observations,

- in some instances you were in you head being calculating.....

- Is ok to make out with women not at closing location, get that stupid none sense pua retarded advice that you can't, it will make you lose lays with gen z due to auto rejection... i fucked most girls i kissed not in closing location... when you go home you don't need to have drinks (i don't use alcohol or drugs)...

- follow for a while some type of date structure for a bit, as training wheels till you get it....
- use massages (this get them really relaxed and easy way to escalate and transition with not lmr)
-make sure that by the time you pull she is already ready to go
- make sure when they get to your crib have her use the bathroom, real quick when this happen, grab couple of condoms put under your pillow so you don't lose momentum.
-learn one of the techinques called denial of sex while escalating (this could have worked with latin)
- make sure you know logistics of next day of the girl pre date... (that was dumb to get blonde out when she had an event next day)

 

[Spike]

5

Great. And how many of those girls were 9+

 

[ChrisXKiss]

What would do, how would you behave etc if there was no way you are going to sleep with her. If the date was the only thing you could have. That will put you in the present and in touch with what you really enjoy.

I won't lie, if there was absolutely no possibility of sex I would probably prefer to meet someone else. It's not even about the seduction success, I have noticed I enjoy myself way more when I can feel the sexual energy with a girl and moving towards getting intimate is a big part of what I enjoy during dates.

For example with this blond girl here, I really enjoyed her company I went to places I liked, I talked about things I liked, it was fun. That said if we were to meet 1-2 more times, and we never moved beyond kissing, I would start losing interest and wondering what is the point, there is no progression.

I also feel that sex is the time where you can get real with someone. In a way before sex it seems like we are both withholding something from each other and no matter the attraction, there is not enough trust there. So for me sex is what makes you connect deeply together, and my goal with girls is exactly that. To appreciate them fully, and offer them all of myself, so when they don't reciprocate this, I feel there is a gap between us.

I understand what you are talking about though, and in fact maybe my issue is exactly that I would enjoy to be more openly sexual sometimes, but I don't do it, thinking it is some better strategy to go more indirect about it.

And I surely agree that you should be enjoying yourself. I have fallen to the trap of being too focused on the result that girls can smell it, so these questions are indeed valuable:

How would I behave?

What would I talk about?

Where would I go?

In the end I'd say I should really enjoy myself , and I probably should do it in a sexual way too, talking about relevant topics, creating tension, microescalating, not pushing for the result in specific, but more enjoying the man to woman energy between us and letting it grow.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

3 makeouts in a day is at least a FR+++. Or a PU hat-trick. I know you wanted a lay, or two, but to label this report a FU seems a bit humble!

Haha you've got a point, I was thinking if I should put it as LR- for the latina, or FR+ for the others, but then because they were all together and the ideal scenario would have been to get them all, I decided to use the FU.

Not that I consider it a huge FU though, more like a damn would have been nice if this had worked, wasn't a bad day though.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

- in some instances you were in you head being calculating.....

Yes I know that, how do you figure out what the next steps would be though? I guess you can be going more by instinct or experience, it's just that sometimes I am thinking ok let's see what's the best course of action.

Did you notice any specific situation that this harmed me a lot here?

- Is ok to make out with women not at closing location, get that stupid none sense pua retarded advice that you can't, it will make you lose lays with gen z due to auto rejection... i fucked most girls i kissed not in closing location... when you go home you don't need to have drinks (i don't use alcohol or drugs)...

That's really good to keep in mind.

- follow for a while some type of date structure for a bit, as training wheels till you get it....

Yes that's useful, I feel I am following it in general in my city. Wanted to try something else in this trip, was basically experimenting with just passing time with the girl, getting her into me and then not closing to see how much she would chase.

The second night date though ( meeting, going to a bar, then walking somewhere else quiet nearby, before pulling ) is fairly close to how I do it back at home.

- use massages (this get them really relaxed and easy way to escalate and transition with not lmr)

Nice, have not tried it a lot, but I had it in mind when I went for the foot massage here. It is a good tool especially when the girl is not that ready.

-make sure that by the time you pull she is already ready to go

That's my general plan, what do you do though if the time is passing and she doesn't feel ready? Especially if it goes late or she says she has to be back or has something else to do, so you don't have a lot of time to get her ready.

My idea has been to go for a pull at some point anyway and see how she responds.

- make sure when they get to your crib have her use the bathroom, real quick when this happen, grab couple of condoms put under your pillow so you don't lose momentum.

I do propose it, but some of them just say they don't want to. My condoms are usually close anyway though, so that hasn't been an issue till now.

-learn one of the techinques called denial of sex while escalating (this could have worked with latin)

Yes I remember this one from my last report. I had it in mind, I simply felt that the latina was really into it, and she didn't seem to have LMR until the pussy.

Then it got very heavy suddenly and she pulled away, I don't think I could have used anything to get close to her. Of course I could have tried, she just looked so embarrassed and shocked about what she was going to do that I didn't feel she would allow me to keep escalating in any way unless she really relaxed and wanted it again herself.

- make sure you know logistics of next day of the girl pre date... (that was dumb to get blonde out when she had an event next day)

That's really important and in fact I was unlucky here. We were both on vacation, so normally free, and she didn't mention anything the first night.

Then the second evening when I texted, she told me she has to go back early, and when we met she mentioned that they called her from the magazine earlier telling her that they would like to have the interview these days, so she responded ok I have time during vacation, let's do it tomorrow. And she planned it for early in the morning.

It was our last night together there anyway, so I decided let's just meet, enjoy ourselves and see. But yeah for sure it would have been better if she had more time, not sure I could have prepared about it in this scenario though.

 

[AspiringStoic]

I won't lie, if there was absolutely no possibility of sex I would probably prefer to meet someone else. It's not even about the seduction success, I have noticed I enjoy myself way more when I can feel the sexual energy with a girl and moving towards getting intimate is a big part of what I enjoy during dates.

For example with this blond girl here, I really enjoyed her company I went to places I liked, I talked about things I liked, it was fun. That said if we were to meet 1-2 more times, and we never moved beyond kissing, I would start losing interest and wondering what is the point, there is no progression.

I also feel that sex is the time where you can get real with someone. In a way before sex it seems like we are both withholding something from each other and no matter the attraction, there is not enough trust there. So for me sex is what makes you connect deeply together, and my goal with girls is exactly that. To appreciate them fully, and offer them all of myself, so when they don't reciprocate this, I feel there is a gap between us.

I understand what you are talking about though, and in fact maybe my issue is exactly that I would enjoy to be more openly sexual sometimes, but I don't do it, thinking it is some better strategy to go more indirect about it.

And I surely agree that you should be enjoying yourself. I have fallen to the trap of being too focused on the result that girls can smell it, so these questions are indeed valuable:


In the end I'd say I should really enjoy myself , and I probably should do it in a sexual way too, talking about relevant topics, creating tension, microescalating, not pushing for the result in specific, but more enjoying the man to woman energy between us and letting it grow.

Well you kind of got my point but part of it, not fully.

One honest question, if you lost your ability to have sex like say you were asked to not have sex for 1 year, because you underwent a surgery.

In that 1 year, would you never meet women?

Never go on a date with any of them?

You would lose all interest in women altogether?

I understand what you are talking about though, and in fact maybe my issue is exactly that I would enjoy to be more openly sexual sometimes, but I don't do it, thinking it is some better strategy to go more indirect about it.

This. There you go. You are curtailing yourself. Holding back being who you are to get a result. That seeps through to the girl in a sense of discomfort and they sometimes sense that you are just "killing time" till you get to your prized moment.

Also it causes you resentment because after the date, when you dont get your desired result, you are like wtf??

I held back, curtailed my natural personality, did all this strategy and got NOTHING for it!

You would not have this resentment if you were being more authentic. You might be disappointed of course that things did not pan out the way you would have liked. But you at least would have the satisfaction of having been your true self.

In my experience, over the long term its better to be rejected for being more authentic than getting "success" by pretending to be someone you are not.

The latter many a times leads to guys who though they get laid a lot are still unhappy and sometimes have resentment towards women.

This is just my experience, if it resonates with you, you can try it out. If not, that is fine. Everyone's personality is slightly different.

Good luck!

 

[ChrisXKiss]

One honest question, if you lost your ability to have sex like say you were asked to not have sex for 1 year, because you underwent a surgery.

In that 1 year, would you never meet women?

Never go on a date with any of them?

You would lose all interest in women altogether?

I feel I would still go for whatever sexual thing I could get, fingering them, licking, any sexual actions that could be allowed. In fact I had dates that we couldn't find a seduction location and I still did that in public and I enjoyed them, wouldn't mind going even further of course.

This. There you go. You are curtailing yourself. Holding back being who you are to get a result. That seeps through to the girl in a sense of discomfort and they sometimes sense that you are just "killing time" till you get to your prized moment.

Also it causes you resentment because after the date, when you dont get your desired result, you are like wtf??

I held back, curtailed my natural personality, did all this strategy and got NOTHING for it!

You would not have this resentment if you were being more authentic. You might be disappointed of course that things did not pan out the way you would have liked. But you at least would have the satisfaction of having been your true self.

In my experience, over the long term its better to be rejected for being more authentic than getting "success" by pretending to be someone you are not.

The latter many a times leads to guys who though they get laid a lot are still unhappy and sometimes have resentment towards women.

This is just my experience, if it resonates with you, you can try it out. If not, that is fine. Everyone's personality is slightly different.

Good luck!

I feel it is a bit more complicated than this though.

I have been authentic, but it's not that I always have one kind of personality and one type of interactions I enjoy.

I'd just say that no matter the interaction or the connection with a woman, whether we get heavily sexual or heavily romantic, for me sex is the natural conclusion of things. And I feel my issue is that I expect women to also feel that naturally.

So at some point I started seeing that ok it is not so simple, they clearly don't want to have sex with you even if you vibe well, there has to be an issue here.

So I started trying to experiment with what would get them comfortable to have sex, and what I should do to lead them there. And I can't say I've built resentment through that, it's mostly a feeling of: Ok I didn't do things well, so they obviously didn't want it, let's do things better next time so that they want it.

In a way I know I can be authentic and do things I enjoy, the thing is that sex itself is one of these things, but I can't just do it unless I somehow make her want it too.

So I'd say that the process of leading towards sex is authentic to me, and everything it includes, the frame setting, the teasing, the escalation, the sexual tension is something I like since it brings me to what I want.

In other words I see a strategy or a technique as something authentically enjoyable since it moves me towards sex. Surely more enjoyable than just going out to a place I like, talking about something I like, but not moving the interaction forward.

All in all, I feel that my main issue is how all this is communicated to the girl.

If she feels that I am just going through the motions and doing things to get her to bed, she will obviously be repulsed by it.

But what I am really going for is creating the best experience for her to feel comfortable to express her feminine sexuality and enjoy herself deeply with me.

I just have to find ways to communicate to the girl that sex is something very valuable that I offer to her and I consider it an unparalleled experience, and the epitome of man to woman connection, a bliss I'd love to share with her because she is such a feminine woman that makes me feel intensely.

So it's not so much about what I use to communicate this, more that I do communicate this, and I don't just expect her to somehow feel it with me.

 

[Skills]

if you are going to try massages do not start with the foot that is the worst place to start (some subconscious of nails, and smell if you were clubbing)... you start with back...

about kissing this is the context form @Glow and i wander how the dude in this recent report got laid, since he kiss the girl, pua advice none sense, guys that are not good at escalations projecting wrong conclusions about crashing tension which is outdated shit, gen x women used to make out all over the place for fun, turning into no lays...

Think of and learn to understand kissing as just a part of escalation and not consider it such as single key move of impact. Sixty, sleazy and the letter etc taught us that long time ago. The overemphasis on kissing is just popular belief and clumsy make-out types. As an example of what the community has taught us is that we can just reframe what kissing is through sexual nuance delivered eg verbally as eg. teevster has taught and showed us long time ago can be done with sex talk related doings. And there are many models for handling this.

You wanna Look at how you kiss - eg kiss to excite and arouse is different from all in makeouts, sensory kissing etc. if you kiss to arouse and swerve it in sexual frames and sensitivity to her the ASD will not happen. And there are ways to manage her past that point. Especially if you combine it with playfulness, use of silent space, proximity and other stimulators that smoothns it all up. This is just a majority as if shes already sexually activated you can use it differently.

To OP - best move for you is to look at micro escalation from MASF days - sixty years of challenge and try to understand the small points of micro escalation before the kiss. eg use of slowed down proximity to arouse. eg escalating the vibe and using silence etc.

Then expand your understanding of that to create moments and sensing where she is on the dates instead of caring too much about the kiss. all the moments we can make as part of escalatory doings. moments of deep bliss, moments of pure sexuality, moments of nostalgic romanticism etc. its on moments, discretion behaviours etc.

Moments and how you kiss can create a whole different experience of the kiss for her. The starting point is ofc where she is for how you engage. But the seductive challenge is to alter that initially if shes back heeling on it for whatever mental reasons.

Example: Just move close to her and oose and relax in closer proximity w her. Your bodies and the space will do the work. You can either do this w silence or as you stroll along something, more subtle. This creates a moment between you where she feels something. playfully pushing her will too. aligning your face after she speaks and holding the silence for a few secs will too. leading her around the place a bit behind her, hand on her waist will too. maybe a more firm look or presence to emphasise a more dominant or purposeful vibe. Appreciating something she does explicitly is a sensual-affectionate smoothner too etc etc. each forms soft points or moments that enables your moves. This all happens in with other things you do as you interact but provide the escalatory layer and momentum between you. Sixty outlines a simple model thats good for learning this.

Also consider her state - if shes sexually aroused and has hit a carefree mood its no prob. the date setup should be adjusted to provide a frame that stimulates the right thing eg sexuality and wildness instead of oldscool courtship etc. Ofc. this needs to b related to her and her starting point for things. but take charge of these things smartly. Work it. Know your influence.

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