What does it mean: Guys side hugging me in venues

James Cruse

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I hadn’t thought about this until recently but I’ve noticed that when I’m in clubs or bars and have made the rounds talking to a few people and have some/alot of social momentum:

I find that ALOT of guys (that don’t know each other) will come up to me, alone, with other guys or with their female friends and either masculine side hug me or put their arm around my shoulder.

This especially happens alot on the dancefloor or near the dancefloor. Still happens in other areas of the club, though not as much.

This has happened to me many times before but I’ve never thought much of it until recently when I was reflecting on it.

I’m curious to hear if this happens to anyone else and what you think it means.

It’s also worth noting that these guys are all different sizes and I’m over 6 foot tall and muscular.
 

James Cruse

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Depends man, usually hugging like that is showing friendship, sign of respect. I mean what does it matter it is good social proof.

These are guys I don’t know and it just seems odd that so many guys do it that don’t know me or know each other.

It’s an unusual occurance that seems like amogging but doesn’t feel like I’m being amogged, but it’s really hard to tell.
 

DarkKnight

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If it doesnt feel like being amogged you are not being amogged, probably something like a culture within that venue where everyone is bro like with eachother. Also like that in our MMA gym we have this brotherhood thing going on.

I would just be chill about it and only react when someone is fucking around but it really seems like a stretch a lot of guys are trying to amog you by hugging you, would be very weird.

I'm assuming these are young people?
 

Kaida

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These are guys I don’t know and it just seems odd that so many guys do it that don’t know me or know each other.

It’s an unusual occurance that seems like amogging but doesn’t feel like I’m being amogged, but it’s really hard to tell.

Its probably just a matter of them wanting to look good by associating with a seemingly high status individual. Doubt its much more than that
 

James Cruse

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I would just be chill about it and only react when someone is fucking around but it really seems like a stretch a lot of guys are trying to amog you by hugging you, would be very weird.

I agree about it being a weird method to amog - that’s why I’m here asking the question. It just seems unusual because I don’t really ever see this happening to anyone else.
I'm assuming these are young people?

Young-ish - 20-26 years old but I’m not much older than that.

ts probably just a matter of them wanting to look good by associating with a seemingly high status individual. Doubt its much more than that

Yeah, it’s possible. That’s why it seems like amogging but feels like social-proof-by-association.
 

DarkKnight

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I understand, you probably had a recent status boost OR got into a new crowd which recognizes this status boost and are not familiar with this treatment yet.
 

James Cruse

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I understand, you probably had a recent status boost OR got into a new crowd which recognizes this status boost and are not familiar with this treatment yet.

It’s happened to me many times before but I never really reflected on it at all and I was around friends, so didn’t seem as obvious.

This has recently been happening to me while I’ve been solo (without my friends) and not knowing anyone around, so it just happened every week and every time I have been out for the past few months.

I’ve been doing 60 years of challenge’s talking-to-everyone-in-the-venue for social momentum.
But this still happens when I only talk to a handful of groups of people - then it just becomes everyone coming at you.
 

Kaida

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It’s happened to me many times before but I never really reflected on it at all and I was around friends, so didn’t seem as obvious.

This has recently been happening to me while I’ve been solo (without my friends) and not knowing anyone around, so it just happened every week and every time I have been out for the past few months.

I’ve been doing 60 years of challenge’s talking-to-everyone-in-the-venue for social momentum.
But this still happens when I only talk to a handful of groups of people - then it just becomes everyone coming at you.

Now that I think about it, this happens to me kind of regularly. Only happens when I’m looking good and chatting up lots of people.

Most of the time it’s harmelss, but sometimes it can feel like he’s trying to look dominant over you. Like a subtle test.

Whenever I sense that, I simply put my arm around him too. This way onlookers see it as two close buddies instead of a dude physically dominating you.

Usually dudes are chill after you do that.
 

Will_V

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Now that I think about it, this happens to me kind of regularly. Only happens when I’m looking good and chatting up lots of people.

Most of the time it’s harmelss, but sometimes it can feel like he’s trying to look dominant over you. Like a subtle test.

Whenever I sense that, I simply put my arm around him too. This way onlookers see it as two close buddies instead of a dude physically dominating you.

Usually dudes are chill after you do that.

That's pretty much how I do things. If it's a dude I don't really like, I mirror the physicality while disengaging with my attention. It's not really physicality that determines status so much as attention.
 

Kaida

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It's not really physicality that determines status so much as attention.

Ah noted.

Do you mean awareness radius or attention in general tho?

A few years ago I would avoid eye contact with people and for some reason it would increase my status. But this is a little unreliable

Because in one situation, a guy can be talking to you and you give him a very little eye contact. This potrntially signals high status

But on the other hand, the opposite can happen. A guy can be talking to you and you giving him full attention can be seen as high status due to your low awareness radius

Whats the nuance?
 

James Cruse

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Now that I think about it, this happens to me kind of regularly. Only happens when I’m looking good and chatting up lots of people.

Most of the time it’s harmelss, but sometimes it can feel like he’s trying to look dominant over you. Like a subtle test.

This is the point of me making this post - it does feel like a subtle dominance test with some guys doing it but not so much with others - but they’re all doing the same thing: the arm around the neck shoulder clasp and being super friendly, seemingly out of nowhere.

Like you said, I usually just am friendly but don’t give them much attention and they say something nice and they’re on their way.

I think there’s more to this that meets the eye but I can’t quite see it.

I’d also like to leverage this into further venue social proof, so if anyone has ideas on that, let me know.
 

Will_V

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Ah noted.

Do you mean awareness radius or attention in general tho?

A few years ago I would avoid eye contact with people and for some reason it would increase my status. But this is a little unreliable

Because in one situation, a guy can be talking to you and you give him a very little eye contact. This potrntially signals high status

But on the other hand, the opposite can happen. A guy can be talking to you and you giving him full attention can be seen as high status due to your low awareness radius

Whats the nuance?

The nuance is intent. In terms of pure power dynamics, when you give someone focused attention, they should be qualifying themselves, or else your attention should come with some form of threat (which, if it's not a relationship you even want, is often better to simply avoid by not giving it in the first place). Otherwise your attention is working against you.

How do you make someone qualify while your attention is on them? By pairing the attention with intent. In every interaction, someone has more intent than the other, and the one with less intent will end up qualifying or negotiating in some way.

What is intent? The readiness and willingness to take unilateral action first without a negotiation. While this sounds 'dangerous', it is in fact quite subtle usually - it could be the intent to demote or abandon the relationship entirely if the person doesn't immediately do what you want/expect, or the intent to take some dominant action to move the relationship in a particular direction without explicit permission - this is a lot of what escalation is, for example kissing or touching, and is why physicality from a guy you hardly know can feel dominant, he is doing something to you that you did not explicitly grant.

Essentially, the person who has a clearer idea of what they want, and is willing to accept less of a difference between the outcome and their expectations, is the person with more intent. The more intent you have, the more easily you can give attention without it being wasted. But intent is not the same as a demand - intent is about what WILL happen next on your part, not what you WANT to happen next on their part. Balancing attention and intent in seduction is a big part of what makes your presence threatening, dominant, or needy.

So when you give someone attention, a good rule of thumb is to do so when they do some kind of qualifying action. And you must be able to demonstrate how easily the attention can be removed if their behavior changes to something you don't like.
 

Teevster

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I find that ALOT of guys (that don’t know each other) will come up to me, alone, with other guys or with their female friends and either masculine side hug me or put their arm around my shoulder.

Simple answer: a way to showcase dominance. Basically a way to tool you.

When they do that to me, I gently put their arm away and I always notice this weird reaction from them, as if "they failed" their crappy amog attempt. You will notice that they usually do this when you are with women.

What I just said is something all veteran nightgamers will agree with.
NEVER LET A DUDE PUT HIS ARM AROUND YOU.

Funny how (real) friends never do this shit to you?

-Teevster
 

mist

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Culture plays into it, but teev is on the money.

Touch showcases a familiarity, possession, comfortability.

Some dude trying to bounce off you for value either by amogging or chummying up to you is not usually of any value to you other than showing social eliteness in how you handle it and use it to further your sets and or social proof in a given venue and circle.

Ask yourself

is it warranted this guy be so familiar, possessive, and or comfortable touching me in this manner? If there is a woman involved usually the answer is no.

The more interesting and noted thing though is your response when someone oversteps or pushes a boundary

That's the social elite vs overreactive
 

James Cruse

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Simple answer: a way to showcase dominance. Basically a way to tool you.

I can see your point here but it rarely succeeds in tooling me, so to speak.


You will notice that they usually do this when you are with women.

I haven’t had men do this when I with women - that’s an agressive amogging move that I haven’t had in a long time.

I think this is more nuanced because if I was talking to a girl one-on-one and a guy neither of us knew did this - fuck that’s ballsy and aggressive of the guy and a great way to pick a fight or someone showing how belligerantly drunk they are.

The only time I’ve had men butt into a conversation between me and a woman is guys I “know” trying to tool me because they’d rather piggyback on my approach and tool me than cold approach women themselves. But that was when we were really young.

Usually when men do what I posted in the OP is when I was talking to women earlier or alot of people seem to know me and they come up to me and side hug me while I’m solo - so no girls with me. It does seem like they’re trying to leech value from me like Kaida was saying.

I was thinking back to nights out where I was not getting ‘Social God Mode’ traction in the venue for whatever reason and I’ve gravitated to whoever I thought was the most popular guy and done vaguely the same thing and I did it unconsciously to be seen with someone who is clearly very popular.
It’s so rare for me to not get that traction so I had forgotten about it.
 

POB

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I find that ALOT of guys (that don’t know each other) will come up to me, alone, with other guys or with their female friends and either masculine side hug me or put their arm around my shoulder.
This happens to me all the time in social events.
What I usually do is put my arm around them too and try to boost their confidence.
Only takes a small compliment:
"Hey, that's a nice shirt man, nice pick..."
Like showing: "you don't need this shit, you are also cool on your own"
After they get their boost, they usually disengage and move on.
This is a double tap, because it shows how cool I am when dealing with annoying strangers.
Of course I'm talking about social....night is another dynamic.
 
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Teevster

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I can see your point here but it rarely succeeds in tooling me, so to speak.

If you let them grab you and hold around you, without any proper response, then they are by default tooling you. Maybe not much, but they are tooling you.

I haven’t had men do this when I with women - that’s an agressive amogging move that I haven’t had in a long time.

Well that depends on the venue and how drunk they are. But usually it will happen if they perceive you as a threat, a dominant figure, a guy with certain social and seductive power.

They don't do this to get some of your value. They do this because they want to lower you, and be above you in the social hierarchy. That's how it goes in the nightlife. They don't ant a piece of the cake, they want the whole cake. Men do not make compromises in field - even though they should!

I think this is more nuanced because if I was talking to a girl one-on-one and a guy neither of us knew did this - fuck that’s ballsy and aggressive of the guy and a great way to pick a fight or someone showing how belligerantly drunk they are.

This is not a nuance. This is the exact same thing. You are perceived as a threat because you have some sort of power. By "dominating you" they not only get the boost from dominating someone, but by dominating the high value guy, they not only remove a threat, they also dominate the perceived leader, putting them on top.

I read a paper once upon a time, that chimps apply similar methods. This is ingrained in our instincts and it is so ingrained that you will notice how quickly women's behaviour towards you changes once you let a guy tool you (by having his arm around your neck).

Usually when men do what I posted in the OP is when I was talking to women earlier or alot of people seem to know me and they come up to me and side hug me while I’m solo - so no girls with me. It does seem like they’re trying to leech value from me like Kaida was saying.

Exactly the same behaviour. It is an AMOG. It was discussed in depth back in 2005-6. This was RSD's discovery and they have been spot on all along on this subject.

They are surely leeching value from you - but not in a way what makes you look high value. They are doing a power play. It is a power play.

I was thinking back to nights out where I was not getting ‘Social God Mode’ traction in the venue for whatever reason and I’ve gravitated to whoever I thought was the most popular guy and done vaguely the same thing and I did it unconsciously to be seen with someone who is clearly very popular.
It’s so rare for me to not get that traction so I had forgotten about it.

Of course, doesn't it all make sense?

You can look at it the way you like, and see this as a positive thing. I am not convinced. My 15 years in clubs have taught me that it is a form of tooling 99% of the time. Similar observations have been done by veteran nightgamers. This is one of the few things that was never disagreed on (you will need more convincing arguments if you want to challenge the current doxa)

And regarding the REST of the people commenting here, none of them are seasoned nightgamers.

So it is your choice what (or who) you want to believe.

I'd be curious about what @Skills has to say - who at the current time is the only super active nightgame veteran around here (aside from me).

-Teevster
 
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Teevster

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This happens to me all the time in social events.
What I usually do is put my arm around them too and try to boost their confidence.
Only takes a small compliment:
"Hey, that's a nice shirt man, nice pick..."
Like showing: "you don't need this shit, you are also cool on your own"
After they get their boost, they usually disengage and move on.
This is a double tap, because it shows how cool I'm dealing with annoying strangers.
Of course I'm talking about social....night is another dynamic.

Good responses.

But you are mistaken on one thing. You are not "boosting them". You make them believe you are boosting them, but in reality, you are tooling them.

The "nice shirt man" is THE MOST standard AMOG technique and was TylerDurden's favourite lines. He even used to have infield vids where he would tool guys and that line always came up.

This is AMOGING. Your response is AMOGING.

Why?

Well AMOGING is a frame control technique, and frames are subtle - it is after all the underlying meaning of the interaction.

By saying "nice shirt" you are asserting dominance, since you are the one challenging, the one judging, the one ASSUMING the position of power. The same underlying frame comes with "Like showing: "you don't need this shit, you are also cool on your own". What is your frame, and what does your expression of such frame end up framing him as? These are the questions you should be asking.

Again it is all about the subtle underlying meaning - it is all about frames. And back in the days, everybody would focus on that, but it seems the overall interest in frames, framing and frame control is close to non-existant nowadays as most guys seem to fail to see things through the lens of frames.

It is all about frames. Has always been and will always be.

Here is one of Tyler's old post (that has been reposted).

Whenever me or my wings (like @Pelusita) would peacock (e.g. sequin jackets, floral prints, fur coats) and dudes would come up to us (so many dudes come up to us, we concluded that it is some instinctual response to peacocking - they see it as a threat - men go nuts whenever a guy is peacocked) and they would start complimenting us, we would just give them a quick "thanks" or a simple quick nod and walk away. Funnily, sometimes the guy would start following us to keep complimenting and touch our clothes and comment on them. We know EXACTLY what they are doing, and we usually tell them politely "thank you for your compliment, but we are a bit busy/we would like some privacy/we are in a conversation". Interestingly, whenever you do that, they guy expresses this feeling of "failure" ("I failed to tool them"). You can totally see it in their face. It is quite hilarious. If you don't "protect yourself", you become the flashy guy who gets tooled.

This is for example why peacocking is easier said than done (aside from finding the right clothes, and have the required fashion expertise for looking cool without looking like a clown or a gay guy as there is a fine line that splits them apart) as you need to know how to wear those clothes and accessories, but more importantly, have pristine frame control because you will receive 1 million amogs on your ass.

-Teevster
 
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Teevster

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Responses to guys putting your arms around you:

1. Gently take his arm and remove it
2. Tell him that he is cute, but that you are not gayalternatively
3. "Sorry. I have a girlfriend" (another more fun alternative is "sorry I have a boyfriend" which will make him freak out as many men have homophobic auto-responses" (if a girl is nearby hearing this, make sure you tell her you are not gay once in isolation with her and that you did this for fun - bonus: the fact she believes you are gay will simplify isolation and give you a certain authority based on increased comfort levels).
4. Grab his ass or dick. If he reacts tell him you taught he was hitting on you (if a girl is nearby, tell her later on that you are not gay and you only did this for fun, to see his reaction - she will laugh and you will totally tool him. Only use this strategy on non-scary guys or in venues where you know the bouncers - this is known as "GAYMOGING" - a more advanced form of AMOGING)
5. Give him a peck on the cheek (similar to above but safer).
6. "No offense dude, you forgot deodorant" - I love this line. Makes him self-conscious as fuck!

Don't get mad or aggressive. That makes you reactive, which makes you fall for his frame. In other words, that will make him succeed.
Rather use the lines above, delivered in an aloof, or a positive and relaxed tone.
Oftentimes, just give him a relaxed smile while you GENTLY take away his hand.

Sometimes they will confront you about it with "why you taking my hand away" - just respond "why are you putting your arms around me? that's the better question - you seem cool but I don't know you".

If he asks "eh... why? what's wrong?". Just answer "nothing, I just don't like having everyone I don't know touching me. It is nothing personal my friend".

Pretty easy.

-Teevster
 
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