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no i am going by op scenarios and his responses does not look like amog to me, also keep in mind he is on the dance floor this happens, is not amog..what you call mix, it is me giving samples on good vibes stuff.
What does it mean: Guys side hugging me in venues
- Thread starter James Cruse
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This is what I have based myself on:
Sure he also refers to hugs. I personally have not made up my mind about the hugs - I would have to see how the hug is delivered to really assess. What I am sure of is that guy is either amoging or leeching from OP. None are good, but one is clearly worse than the other.
What I am talking about is this specific move (sorry for bad pic).
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Yeah i experience more the leach, i call him the opportunist but leach may be better term...
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I see definetely amog... fuck that! @James Cruse you needs to clarify maybe pics
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Maybe because you are tall (?), bald and muscular (compared to me you are lol), which may intimidate guys from amoging you? @Pelusita (who is an ex bouncer!) experiences far less amog than I. I have a long hair and a baby face (0 intimidating face at all), no particularily tall, and have 0 muscles (I don't work out... I know I should... I know I should...), so men do not feel physically threatened by me at all (only socially threatened).
Just speculating.
Edit: That said, I have gotten less and less AMOGED after I started using a more intimidating vibe, usually a stare with a poker face. I think my vibe is more intimidating after I acquired certain powers and privileges in the Parisian nightlife. I also learned a lot from hanging in some Ghetto-venues.
-Teevster
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Yes i brought this point indirectly my refernce of the flower jacket... so i was trying to say the same a bit more tactful, my reference to dynamics.... but the op needs to clarify a bit more pics would be helpful... if it looks like the pic ypu posted is definetely amog..
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I get less AMOGED when I dress "casual" but cool. However, when I peacock, it is a leech and AMOG-fest for the reasons already discussed.
For this reasons, the night where I feel a bit tired and not in state I prefer go more low-key! Also peacocking on low state is bad. With low state you approach less, and imagine being a guy alone in the corner with a sequin jacket! it looks BAD - just outright bad. If peacocked YOU must be in set the majority of the time, else it backfires. Sure, it is easier to be in set when peacocked but some work is required, and when state is so shit that this little work-load becomes "a difficult task" it is wiser to drop the peacock.
Also, approaching while peacocked, while having a meh vibe (bad state) kind of makes the power of peacocking a bit... weird... you are like this flashy dude, with a lame vibe.
Strategic choices.
Anyway, won't derail.
But peacocking is not a cheat-code... that's for sure. It is a technique that is easier said than done to pull off.
-Teevster
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^This!!!
If you are physically imposing or menacing, at least more than the other dude, he will try to diminish your presence using subtle frame grabbing techniques, not blatant amog.
Usually dudes come to me and say something along the lines of me being juiced, or try to paint me as a dumb gym bro.
So they come from a place of inferiority, which is very easy to shut down.
About the neck hugging, the only time a guy did that to me, I punched him so hard on the shoulder he backed off immediately.
Of course I did it with a smile on my face and in a jokingly way.
But you are right, the neck thing must be delt with fast and with energy.
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haha, should have broken his shoulder bro.. I joke, I joke... or am I
I can remember one encounter where this guy did a neck hugging move to me and it was blatant amog, he was taller and older, but Idid the same move to him while he was using one arm to basically push me down. and I pushed him down instead, I dont think he liked that. That guys entire existence was to amog people though
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This is similar to how I’ve been dealing with this so far:
1. Ackowledge them briefly
2. Give them some approval (smile + nod + grab their shoulders back)
3. Send them on their way
Nothing agressive has come out of this and the tone hasn’t been threatening
For context: I’m Australian in a large capital city in Australia.
In Australia, we don’t aggressively amog each other like interrupting a one-on-one conversation/interaction between a male female unless we know them or we’re belligerently drunk/ballsy and willing to fight.
Australian men are far more subtle with their amogging but also subtle with alot of other intentions.
They’re generally smart enough to know aggressive amogging just gets you in fights + kicked out of the venue/possibly banned for life (we have ID camera controls for entry into EVERY club) + you don’t get the girl.
Women here can also see a clumsy amog attempt a mile away, so it’s not really worth it because there’s few upsides and mostly downsides.
The majority of the amogging I’ve received in Australia was either from male (orbiter friends), alpha female obstacles or roided up guys that were too afraid to cold approach the hottest girls in the club and they pull you aside when you’re along and threaten you not to continue talking to those girls.
The point of this post is how to flip what these guys are doing (in a subtle way) and use these events to my advantage to boost social proof in the venue rather than detract from it.
I think rejecting these guys outright when they are doing something subtle and not directly aggressive/threatening would make you look weak, socially uncalibrated and butthurt.
To me, that would be equivalent to a famous person ALWAYS smacking papparazzi’s cameras from their hands EVERYWHERE he goes - surely he’d be gracious and experienced enough after years of fame to deal with these people taking his pictures and talking to him in public.
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Thinking about this as frame control helps as Teevster suggests. Now I think about it, it reminds me of a big brother, little brother dynamic. Ostensibly it is friendly on the surface but in actuality it is a way of asserting superiority as if the person being hugged needs reassurance from someone with more authority.
In a similar manner it reminds of a couple of times when a guy has done a 'friendly' pinch on one of cheeks. Both times it weirded me out and caught me off guard.
In a similar manner it reminds of a couple of times when a guy has done a 'friendly' pinch on one of cheeks. Both times it weirded me out and caught me off guard.
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Yep.
Indeed.
Straight up lame.
Haha, that's it. Used to wielding power like a petty tyrant. Pissed off when it doesn't work...
Yep, noticed it too.
Several things I've noticed about other guys who are peacocked (other than yourself), assuming they have social skills and are not dudes playing dress up alone in a corner of the bar somewhere:
- They are pretty much always hard on the grind (looking to pick up, or looking to meet key people) and treat anyone approaching them as potential/probable interference.
- If you do talk to them in some smooth/disarming way that has nothing to do with their peacocking, you get short/defensive responses, poor eye contact, inattentive body language -- basically they have a bitch shield on and/or are too busy hunting for their next target to waste time on whoever you might be.
- If you are doing better than they are with girls, they can be competitive -- I have never had a peacocked guy try to cooperate with me on girls. I have had them try breaking into my sets to razzle-dazzle the chick(s) I was with. At that point you're forced to tool the guy; it's zero-sum.
Same thing has been true of celebrities I've run into, though I think from your frequenting of higher end nightlife scenes you've probably encountered more celebrities than I have.
Actually one of my later-on good friends & wingmen I first encountered peacocked at a club... I did not meet him then though. He was all over the place, until he grabbed a girl and pulled her, then he was gone. Instead I ended up meeting his more chill roommate, getting to know the guy, and befriended them both. I learned chase framing in part from that peacocked guy... but I never would've befriended him trying to approach him in his get-up when he was bouncing all over the club.
Yeah, that is true. I wrote about the subject of lovers vs. fighters a while back:
Lovers vs. Fighters: Who's Your Target Audience, Women or Men?
Lovers seduce women; fighters intimidate men. But why do men choose the specializations they do – and which should you choose? I was probably about 20 years old when I accepted what was to me a weird fact at the time. That fact was that the toughest, manliest, most utterly male, intimidating men...
www.girlschase.com
Fighters use intimidation to try to remove competitors from the dating pool. When you're getting approached by bigger/macho guys, it's usually going to be a given the dude is trying to remove you via intimidation.
Could be right.
Indeed.
Yeah. I have almost never gotten physical AMOGs. It's always verbal.
The only time I have had guys try things with me physically is guys who are huge or guys who are very drunk and in a group. The rest of the time if they are going to try something it is only verbal.
I assume that's thanks to the time I spent in the gym + martial arts training. I haven't been in many fights and prefer to avoid them, but I've had guys who were fighters tell me they wouldn't want to fight me, or "I bet you would fuck me up in a fight... but my friend who's a black belt could probably take you", etc.
Chase
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@James Cruse,
All right, that clarifies it a lot.
Aussies are very macho but also very chummy. Sounds like a cultural component to it.
Well, there is this:
Gives the appearance of you being the higher status guy in the pair of friends.
I've done things like this a few times, where you are one-upping him in the friendly enthusiasm, but dislike it because I'd rather just give the guy as little encouragement as possible and just get him out of there, especially if I am talking to a girl. Especially if you are doing solo you will sometimes get guys winging each other where one of them approaches to occupy you while the other works to peel away your girl.
But if your goal is "use the guy", that might be more the kind of strategy you want.
Chase
All right, that clarifies it a lot.
Aussies are very macho but also very chummy. Sounds like a cultural component to it.
Well, there is this:
- Dude comes up and wraps his arm around you
- You turn to him "HEEEEY buddy!" and slap him on the back with your arm or even muss up his hair
Gives the appearance of you being the higher status guy in the pair of friends.
I've done things like this a few times, where you are one-upping him in the friendly enthusiasm, but dislike it because I'd rather just give the guy as little encouragement as possible and just get him out of there, especially if I am talking to a girl. Especially if you are doing solo you will sometimes get guys winging each other where one of them approaches to occupy you while the other works to peel away your girl.
But if your goal is "use the guy", that might be more the kind of strategy you want.
Chase
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As much as I really like your intentions, and your good will, remember that the vast majority of men in field has no good intention. It is a kind of "battle ground". The field at night is NOT the real world. It is high school all over again, and in high school it was this battle of everyone against everyone - a bit like Thomas Hobbes' state of nature. The field IS a state of nature.
Now not all of them will be aggressive amogs. Some will just do light amoging, others will simply let you leech. But think about it:
- Aggressive AMOG (arm around your neck/shoulder is and should always be considered aggressive AMOG attempts. This does not mean you have to be aggressive back - as in my book that can make you come off as reactive (that said, aggressive responses, when pulled off right in the right context works too, but just like you it ain't my style).
- Compliments, comments, etc will always depend on the vibe. Sometimes it is an aggressive AMOG and you MUST respond accordingly. If you do not, you will be seen as a low value sucker, and in clubs, they don't get the girls. Sometimes it is a morel light and subtle AMOG and here, some smooth frame control is required. Think of it like a shit test. Now "honest" compliments may be genuine but the guy has no intention of being nice to you for the sake of being nice to you. Remember that, always. He is always acting out of self-interest to benefit. It isn't about you. It NEVER is.
- Genuine compliments, hugs, etc. Could be AMOGs, could be attempts at befriending you. Sometimes it is hard to tell. What you DO know is that it is NOT an agressive AMOG. So you can be "lighter" and"friendlier" in your response...
... but the answer is always the same: you MUST get rid of them. You must convey that "hey thanks dude, but now please leave".
Because they will be leeches. And you do NOT want leeches (dead ends). They will distract you, waste your time, bother you when you talk to girls (they want to leech girls from you), and lower your value - being surrounded and "hanging" with low value men for an extended period of time WILL make you come off as lower value and affect your "social proof" negatively.
Now, there may be cases where high value men approach you (although very unlikely, high value men usually are too busy with their stuff - but it can happen that they walk over from time to them). In these cases be friendly but do not let him "in" until you know for sure he is a connector (able to connect you to events, tables, other key people, girls). If, he is not a connector but a dead end (vast majority of men) as @Mr.Suave calls them, do not engage for more than a minute or two.
The field at night-game DOES NOT reward pity, altruism and generosity.
Either accept things as they are, or let your field experience for you to accept them.
-Teevster
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LOL. I reminds me of @Pelusita who has arms larger than my legs (huge guy) who would just tell amogs "hey you... please just go over there" and the guys obey.
I experience both types of AMOG depending on whether the guy is more physically menacing, or less or equal to me. Both needs to be handled as both can damage your night badly.
The second type always try to opt for some backhanded compliment, or passive aggressiveness.
It is like handling female shit-tests really.
Only difference is that women are much more sophisticated than men. But many men, think other men are on their side. It is some kind of weird "bro code". You will see this in clubs - dude talking to other dudes, and act all friendly.
It is always 100% fake.
You have no friends in clubs .
(Unless they are real friends outside the club! or if they are people you came with).
-Teevster
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Yes, I have noticed this too. This goes for "high value" LGBTQ+ people who often dress to kill (dress gayish but good), drag-queens (imagine how much a DRAG gets opened per night... go up to him and compliment the drag and you will be shut down asap) or even a high status tranny. Same dynamic as with some high value connector type of girl, social climbers or model, or local celeb (i did not say HOT girls where necessarily like these).
I have made the EXACT same observations. And usually, in clubs, when I am socially proofed, know the owner, or last night, invited to this boat party (club on a boat, rented by nightlife people - usually exclusive for nightlife staff) and had access to the backstage behind the DJ:
I was out with miss T France last night. She said something very obvious to us, but very smart as we took a cab to the next venue:
"The nightlife is all about your wallet, that is all the clubs care about - either how much you spend, or how much you make people spend, or how many people who spend or can make other people spend you bring into the club" - Miss T France, drunk at 3 am last night.
Basically, if you start befriending too many low value men, who doesn't contribute shit other than being mere "filler" in the club (a picker in Paris said that all those avg joes in the club are "filler" to fill the spots - so basically he will pick those that dress ok and don't cause problem) you can actually be see as one of them. Clubs want high value people to mingle with other high value people. In high end clubs for rich(er) people, they want people who spend, who are connected in X environment to connect, because that will make them spend more. If you spend your time talking to the "filler", you become low value to the club. In clubs where it is all about being artistic, which attract influencers, they want those people to interact with one another, and not have you interact with the filler. If you interact with the filler, you become useless to them - like a dead-end to the club - and dead-ends are low value. You do not want this.
You become who you are associated with.
Even meat markets want cool people who spend, but it will of course matter less.
Of course, this is advanced nightgaming and most guys shouldn't care too much about this until they get their stuff together. Going full-blown cold approach style and get girls from clubs this way is fine. I have done it for years and occasionally still do it - it is an art. But once you start caring about the hybrid cold approach/SC type of night game , which most will once they want access to trickier and exclusive spots, then this is crucial.
Yeah, that is true. I wrote about the subject of lovers vs. fighters a while back:
Lovers vs. Fighters: Who's Your Target Audience, Women or Men?
Lovers seduce women; fighters intimidate men. But why do men choose the specializations they do – and which should you choose? I was probably about 20 years old when I accepted what was to me a weird fact at the time. That fact was that the toughest, manliest, most utterly male, intimidating men...
Fighters use intimidation to try to remove competitors from the dating pool. When you're getting approached by bigger/macho guys, it's usually going to be a given the dude is trying to remove you via intimidation.
I agree with these observations.
Also drunk guys and guys on drugs will do the "arm around shoulder" thing even if you are more intimidating than them.
-Teevster
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As Chase said, I’ve very rarely had physical cockblocks that challenged me to a fight physically. I had physical confrontations years ago in clubs when I was young, skinny and hadn’t muscled up yet and wjt with older roided up guys that were too scared to cold approach so were threatened by me or my friends.
Most of the cock-blocking attempts on me now I’m older and more muscular are verbal.
An example of a clever recent Australian cockblock attempt:
These two guys I started talking to in a club a few weeks ago (local Australian guys) told me they knew each other from being on this show, Love Island (Australia) and when I asked what they did for jobs said, “well we don’t work anymore, we’re just paid to make public appearances”
It’s generally well-known that Love Island only casts very tall, fit, good looking guys who then go on to become somewhat famous after they leave the show and make money from being local celebrities.
These guys fit the type - 6’5 tall fit broad-shouldered and good looking guys in their mid 20’s, so they fit the type. Easily the biggest guys in the venue by a long way.
I was curious and asked them when they were on it and they told me.
They asked me if I watched it - I told them “No, never seen it but I know my sister watches it and dated a guy that was on the show a few years ago”.
Anyway, I was having fun and started shouting these guys had been on Love Island to people around and making jokes about it and merging groups with people nearby and telling these new people about these guys being on Love Island.
Anyway, we all talked to a few girls that came over then I continued building my social momentum in the venue by moving on and talking to other people and continuing to merge groups.
Anyway, I moved around and was back later to where these Love island guys happened to be and was leading around a mixed group with me.
Anyway, I introduced this mixed group with me to the Love Island guys and then I moved on to another part of the club with my group.
I pulled a german girl home that I talked to when her friend talked to a guy I had brought to this upstairs part of the club and then I went home with her later.
Anyway, I was talking to my sister and I mentioned I had met these guys from Love Island and told them their names and described what they looked like - she told me they weren’t on Love Island, checked the website and said - see, can you see they weren’t - here’s the photos of the casts.
Sure enough, these dude’s were just trying to tool me into believing they had some status and seeing if I went along with it but it fell flat for them.
I didn’t care and it worked against them because I just used what they said to merge other groups and use it for social fodder for myself. They had very little game so couldn’t capitalise on any of the girls we as a group talked to, so it all benefitted me.
But alot of guys will be tooled by these kinds of tactics in clubs and not even realise it because it’s so subtle. I didn’t even realise they were trying to tool me until much later after I left the club.
I’m 6foot and muscular but these guys were both much bigger than me and anyone else in the club that night and could have tried to physically tool me but tried the subtle route because it’s much less risk to their social value and social capital when it doesn’t work or extremely effective if it does work, without detracting from their own social value.
Most of the cock-blocking attempts on me now I’m older and more muscular are verbal.
An example of a clever recent Australian cockblock attempt:
These two guys I started talking to in a club a few weeks ago (local Australian guys) told me they knew each other from being on this show, Love Island (Australia) and when I asked what they did for jobs said, “well we don’t work anymore, we’re just paid to make public appearances”
It’s generally well-known that Love Island only casts very tall, fit, good looking guys who then go on to become somewhat famous after they leave the show and make money from being local celebrities.
These guys fit the type - 6’5 tall fit broad-shouldered and good looking guys in their mid 20’s, so they fit the type. Easily the biggest guys in the venue by a long way.
I was curious and asked them when they were on it and they told me.
They asked me if I watched it - I told them “No, never seen it but I know my sister watches it and dated a guy that was on the show a few years ago”.
Anyway, I was having fun and started shouting these guys had been on Love Island to people around and making jokes about it and merging groups with people nearby and telling these new people about these guys being on Love Island.
Anyway, we all talked to a few girls that came over then I continued building my social momentum in the venue by moving on and talking to other people and continuing to merge groups.
Anyway, I moved around and was back later to where these Love island guys happened to be and was leading around a mixed group with me.
Anyway, I introduced this mixed group with me to the Love Island guys and then I moved on to another part of the club with my group.
I pulled a german girl home that I talked to when her friend talked to a guy I had brought to this upstairs part of the club and then I went home with her later.
Anyway, I was talking to my sister and I mentioned I had met these guys from Love Island and told them their names and described what they looked like - she told me they weren’t on Love Island, checked the website and said - see, can you see they weren’t - here’s the photos of the casts.
Sure enough, these dude’s were just trying to tool me into believing they had some status and seeing if I went along with it but it fell flat for them.
I didn’t care and it worked against them because I just used what they said to merge other groups and use it for social fodder for myself. They had very little game so couldn’t capitalise on any of the girls we as a group talked to, so it all benefitted me.
But alot of guys will be tooled by these kinds of tactics in clubs and not even realise it because it’s so subtle. I didn’t even realise they were trying to tool me until much later after I left the club.
I’m 6foot and muscular but these guys were both much bigger than me and anyone else in the club that night and could have tried to physically tool me but tried the subtle route because it’s much less risk to their social value and social capital when it doesn’t work or extremely effective if it does work, without detracting from their own social value.
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@James Cruse,
Interesting experience.
That could just be their "angle" when they go out though.
I mentioned in an article a couple days ago how I went out with a guy once who suggested we "be" doctors or lawyers in our mingling. I had another buddy who was always presenting himself as involved in all these big high status things.
Might not have been an attempt to tool you directly -- they could just be telling that to everyone they meet in clubs to try to make themselves look higher status. "We were on this TV show" "we don't have to work anymore, we're so rich", etc.
(or it could've been... but probably, two tall good-looking guys and they go right to that... probably just their MO: "Yeah we met on Love Island. We don't have to work anymore" -- probably gets them some drunk girls at the end of the night sometimes who don't have the good sense to check up on them like your sister did)
Chase
Interesting experience.
That could just be their "angle" when they go out though.
I mentioned in an article a couple days ago how I went out with a guy once who suggested we "be" doctors or lawyers in our mingling. I had another buddy who was always presenting himself as involved in all these big high status things.
Might not have been an attempt to tool you directly -- they could just be telling that to everyone they meet in clubs to try to make themselves look higher status. "We were on this TV show" "we don't have to work anymore, we're so rich", etc.
(or it could've been... but probably, two tall good-looking guys and they go right to that... probably just their MO: "Yeah we met on Love Island. We don't have to work anymore" -- probably gets them some drunk girls at the end of the night sometimes who don't have the good sense to check up on them like your sister did)
Chase
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I agree with this - it may not have been an attempt to tool me directly but I think they would have been ok with it if they did.
I think they were trying it on as a tool but no-one we talked to had actually watched the show so didn’t know/care about it.
I think they thought I was trying to leach some value from them but realised later it was the opposite so never mentioned the sagain.
I think alot of guys get tooled indirectly by other men without realising it - I know I’ve seen that happen alot here in Australia.
This is a video from Fortitude Valley in Brisbane (where I live) where an American is interviewing people about body counts and relationships in the club district where I go clubbing and there’s three guys doing what they did to me in the original post (more drunkly though) to this interviewer and then another guy subtley tooling the interviewer at the end and he doesn’t know what to do:
This is a great example of several ways Australian guys from my city will attempt to tool you, right here in the video. Elijah (the interviewer) doesn’t see it coming because he’s American and clearly hasn’t seen this before. Every guy in this video is trying to tool the interviewer except the guy with the speech impediment.
In fact, the club I was in with the “Love Island” wannabes was in the backround at one stage of this video.
