What is your cold approach banter process?

[KJ Francis]

Hi guys, I just did my first ever coffee shop line approach and got a number from a beautiful Latina architect with a slim waist. She seems maybe a few years older than me, which dampens the dynamic a bit.

So my question is what is your process for banter, like do you have a high level mental model and general strategy in your head? Otherwise the structure of an interaction we might have in mind just treats it as a whole step. I.e. open, banter, check logistics, soft close, get number, icebreaker text, etc.

***

There was some talk on the boards not long ago about deep diving too early. I am still confused about not really getting to know her much in a cold approach that may last five minutes or whatever.

If the deep diving theory is it builds her connection to you, do we really want to skip that until the date? In theory, wouldn't it be an excellent flake reducer? Then you are not random guy from coffee shop... You are someone who knows a bit about her even if not really digging into the "why" of her motivations yet.

So anyways, I am clearly too platonic and seem to be missing breaking the touch barrier, plus flirting from a verbal perspective. I think I have boiled down flirting to simply equalling teasing (sometimes chase framed).

So if I want to create a feeling of her being like a kid sister and laughing a bit, what do you tease girls about when they are impressive women?

She attempted a friend frame here. We had really solid eye contact and she was invested. Luckily I assume attraction enough to think this may be a good thing since it disqualified the boyfriend frame. What is a lover if not a friend who escalates?

Here is the interaction. So what would you guys have done differently? I would ideally just go from opener straight to rapport and really up the level of nonverbal tension and proximity. But apparently that will not work?

***

Saw her taking a photo of the ceiling, then she walked in the coffee shop line behind me and starting browsing the shelves.

"Did you get a good shot?" She said mediocre.

I asked if she was a tourist. She explained working remote. I asked about her accent and got into her history moving around the country for various levels of school.

I ask her name and she asks mine, attempting a business shake. I simply hold and slightly turn her hand. She is an architect doing a rare site visit nearby.

She asks about me in turn with my name ("and what do you do, Francis?) and brushed her hair back a couple times. At this point we both have our coffees and start walking toward seating.

I said I have to get going back to the office, but since she bounces around cafes in the area, how about let's meet for coffee sometime. She says sure but just as friends since she's getting out of a relationship. I say oh fun. She says yeah it's been fun, sort of sarcastic (so I assume still healing). I take her number and her hand again, saying it was nice meeting her. She said Ciao.

Me (one hour later): Nice running into you, (her name). I hope you enjoy the site visit today.
-Francis

Her (one hour later): Hi Francis! Nice meeting you as well. Hope you have a great day!

 

[FAB DRONES]

There was some talk on the boards not long ago about deep diving too early

idk about that, I didn't read that, but... if this was a specific question, I specifically remember deep diving right away successfully at a party. I would say in public you could, it might look cheesy but better than ending on some sarcastic note. I did it super cheesy, "so, are you PASSIONATE about being a nurse?"

 

[Chase]

@Francis,

Good questions here.

Hi guys, I just did my first ever coffee shop line approach and got a number from a beautiful Latina architect with a slim waist. She seems maybe a few years older than me, which dampens the dynamic a bit.

So my question is what is your process for banter, like do you have a high level mental model and general strategy in your head? Otherwise the structure of an interaction we might have in mind just treats it as a whole step. I.e. open, banter, check logistics, soft close, get number, icebreaker text, etc.

I have an article on the early banter process in cold approach with a selection of examples here:

Tactics Tuesdays: Opener Cycling

If at first your opener doesn’t hook, try, try again. That’s the basis of opener cycling: using more than one opener on one girl. Don’t just open weak then plow. Not every time you open a girl will she open with gusto. Sometimes all you get is a blasé response. She doesn't reject you, per se...

www.girlschase.com

Comes from an earlier forum thread where I laid one out and expanded on what the process was.

There was some talk on the boards not long ago about deep diving too early.

I wrote this article as a result of that talk:

When to Use Deep Diving with Girls

Some guys try to use deep dives with girls just after meeting them. But this is not the right time for a deep dive. When is? The MIDDLE of the seduction! Contents 1. Deep Diving Origins Experiments w/ DD 2. What If You Dive Early? GF's Early Diving Deep Dive Prerequisites No DD on # Closes Deep...

www.girlschase.com

I am still confused about not really getting to know her much in a cold approach that may last five minutes or whatever.

If the deep diving theory is it builds her connection to you, do we really want to skip that until the date? In theory, wouldn't it be an excellent flake reducer? Then you are not random guy from coffee shop... You are someone who knows a bit about her even if not really digging into the "why" of her motivations yet.

So anyways, I am clearly too platonic and seem to be missing breaking the touch barrier, plus flirting from a verbal perspective. I think I have boiled down flirting to simply equalling teasing (sometimes chase framed).

Think about it like this: in your average cold approach, you have 2-10 minutes to make an impression on her.

You can go for "deep connection." But then her core memory of you is "that guy I really bonded with for like six minutes."

That is cool and all, but there's only so deep you can go in six minutes, and even if you speed-run it and go super deep (she tells you about formative childhood experiences and her deepest darkest fears), it is still just six minutes, and now she has this weird memory of a guy she met walking down the street to whom she told her deepest darkest secrets and then he asked her out and they parted ways. Weird!

OTOH, if you just pump her up with some arousal, coupled with you being a cool dude, her memory of you is one of excitement, curiosity, and potential. "Wow, that guy was really cool. I really enjoyed talking to him. I wonder where it might lead!"

I still recommend using SAC pings. If she doesn't light up for compliance or arousal but she does for similarity, then you want to build similarity on the approach. But you will still usually be better served in the initial approach by doing that through cold reading, imagination games, or bond-building banter (where you two joke around about commonalities or shared opinions), rather than a deep dive. The energy is still too "we just met" and you need something more energetically stimulating.

So if I want to create a feeling of her being like a kid sister and laughing a bit, what do you tease girls about when they are impressive women?

The importance of her work. Her stuffy bearing or self-importance. Her rush to get to a meeting that will probably just be people sitting around jabbering on about KPIs.

We're all just monkeys in business suits who are going to end up rotting in a grave in 40-70 years. Is any of us really THAT much more important than the rest?

She attempted a friend frame here. We had really solid eye contact and she was invested. Luckily I assume attraction enough to think this may be a good thing since it disqualified the boyfriend frame. What is a lover if not a friend who escalates?

Yep.

Tao of Steve is relevant here:

Seduction According to the Tao of Steve, Pt. 1: Be Desireless

The Tao of Steve gives men 3 rules to seduction. The first of these is “Be desireless.” But just how does being desireless help you hook in girls? In the early days of the seduction community, a little-seen romantic comedy became a hot topic of discussion among seducers. That film was 2000’s The...

www.girlschase.com

That's basically his whole frame.

Here is the interaction. So what would you guys have done differently? I would ideally just go from opener straight to rapport and really up the level of nonverbal tension and proximity. But apparently that will not work?

***

Saw her taking a photo of the ceiling, then she walked in the coffee shop line behind me and starting browsing the shelves.

"Did you get a good shot?" She said mediocre.

I asked if she was a tourist. She explained working remote. I asked about her accent and got into her history moving around the country for various levels of school.

I ask her name and she asks mine, attempting a business shake. I simply hold and slightly turn her hand. She is an architect doing a rare site visit nearby.

She asks about me in turn with my name ("and what do you do, Francis?) and brushed her hair back a couple times. At this point we both have our coffees and start walking toward seating.

I said I have to get going back to the office, but since she bounces around cafes in the area, how about let's meet for coffee sometime. She says sure but just as friends since she's getting out of a relationship. I say oh fun. She says yeah it's been fun, sort of sarcastic (so I assume still healing). I take her number and her hand again, saying it was nice meeting her. She said Ciao.

Me (one hour later): Nice running into you, (her name). I hope you enjoy the site visit today.
-Francis

Her (one hour later): Hi Francis! Nice meeting you as well. Hope you have a great day!

Nothing terrible there. It's a fine approach.

It's not super grabbing or stimulating. But you don't have to be Mr. Ultra Seducer to get every girl.

If it was me it would've gone something more like:

HER: [takes photo of ceiling]​

​

ME: [stand next to her, very obviously crane my neck to look up at the ceiling] That IS a superb ceiling.​

​

^ opener​

​

HER: [laughs] It's not actually that great.​

​

ME: May I see? [gesture to her phone]​

​

^ compliance ping​

​

HER: [showing picture] It's just a ceiling.​

​

ME: Well, you're an excellent ceiling photographer. You really bring the colors out. [touch her as say this]​

​

^ arousal ping​

​

ME: Why'd you want a picture of that ceiling anyway?​

​

^ similarity ping​

​

HER: [smirk] I just like taking pictures of ceilings.​

​

ME: Uh-huh. What's the REAL reason?​

​

HER: I'm an architect. I need pictures for my site visit.​

​

ME: What kind of architect?​

​

HER: Interior design.​

​

ME: I see. I'm Chase, by the way. [extend hand]​

​

HER: Madison.​

At this point you should have some indication from her whether she responds best to you asking for compliance, you generating arousal, or you seeking commonalities (bonding/similarity). Whichever gets the best response on, you double down on.

If she responded to compliance, ask for more compliance. If she responded to arousal, flirt more, tease more, touch her more. If she responded to similarity, cold read read her / make an educated guess based on what she's told you so far.

Then, on a high point, ask her out and trade contacts.

Chase

 

[DonGately]

Great stuff from Chase.

Your banter style has to reflect who you are and what you're good at if you've got six minutes. I'm good at the cocky/funny style because I'm witty and very fast on my feet and overall very good bantering skills -- I can pretty much talk to anyone, her being ultra-hot doesn't affect that.
For me, I go indirectly sexual unless the coffee shop is so crowded it would simply be too awkward. A common line I use on cold approaches if she's wearing a choker is, 'I like your choker, is that fashion or are you about that lifestyle?' stuff like that, also applies if she's wearing leather, hooker boots, et al.
If she seems timid or shy then find a commonality while still letting her know I'm interested with lots of deep eye contact, touch her on the hand or elbow. If there's any evidence of interest in the Zodiac, lead with that, etc.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

If it was me it would've gone something more like:

HER: [takes photo of ceiling]ME: [stand next to her, very obviously crane my neck to look up at the ceiling] That IS a superb ceiling.^ openerHER: [laughs] It's not actually that great.ME: May I see? [gesture to her phone]^ compliance pingHER: [showing picture] It's just a ceiling.ME: Well, you're an excellent ceiling photographer. You really bring the colors out. [touch her as say this]^ arousal pingME: Why'd you want a picture of that ceiling anyway?^ similarity pingHER: [smirk] I just like taking pictures of ceilings.ME: Uh-huh. What's the REAL reason?HER: I'm an architect. I need pictures for my site visit.ME: What kind of architect?HER: Interior design.ME: I see. I'm Chase, by the way. [extend hand]HER: Madison.
At this point you should have some indication from her whether she responds best to you asking for compliance, you generating arousal, or you seeking commonalities (bonding/similarity). Whichever gets the best response on, you double down on.

Something I always wondered regarding these examples, both here and on the main site, is what assumptions are made about the receptivity of the girl. I don't doubt that this example looks great and it would work if played out like this, I simply feel that for most approaches I have made the girl would be way more closed off to this type of immediate bantering.

For example the first reaction I would expect after the " That IS a superb ceiling " line, would be some form of " Yes it is" paired with a sceptical look towards me, and more of a dismissive attitude.

It could be that there is something wrong with the way I do the teasing part. After such a reaction, I would generally try to be more grounded and genuine, because I feel if I continue being in such playful energy I create more and more dissimilarity. Can't say it works a lot though. Maybe it is simply a number's game, and sooner or later you meet the girls that will be responsive to your approach.

And regarding the ultra seducer thing, is there ever a scenario where Francis' approach would be preferable in fact? Meaning a more low key, not that stimulating type of approach. I've felt a lot of times that when I simply talk to a girl normally, without doing any particular teasing or techniques to stimulate her especially in daygame, she starts taking me more seriously, like oh this is a cool solid guy I can see myself going out with.

Maybe you can just, as you said, begin the interaction as you described and then check what the girl responded to and work with that. Just thinking if there are situations where a playful start will close off the girl more and make it an uphill battle. Not sure if it can be a cultural thing as well, I rarely see Eastern Europeans being very much into banter for example.

 

[Chase]

@ChrisXKiss,

Something I always wondered regarding these examples, both here and on the main site, is what assumptions are made about the receptivity of the girl. I don't doubt that this example looks great and it would work if played out like this,

Usually when I write banter examples, I try to assume an at least marginally receptive girl.

If she's REALLY receptive then it doesn't matter what you say; she's just giggling and participating and bantering back from the get-go.

If she's not receptive at ALL then the example goes

HER: [takes photo of ceiling]​

​

ME: [stand next to her, very obviously crane my neck to look up at the ceiling] That IS a superb ceiling.​

​

^ opener​

​

HER: [quick glance over, then glance away] It's just a ceiling.​

​

ME: [opener cycling since the first opener did not hit]​

Tactics Tuesdays: Opener Cycling

If at first your opener doesn’t hook, try, try again. That’s the basis of opener cycling: using more than one opener on one girl. Don’t just open weak then plow. Not every time you open a girl will she open with gusto. Sometimes all you get is a blasé response. She doesn't reject you, per se...

www.girlschase.com

But it's not a very informative banter example if it's just guy: line; girl: meh; guy: next line; girl: meh again; guy: another line; girl: "I have to go," lol.

I simply feel that for most approaches I have made the girl would be way more closed off to this type of immediate bantering.

If she's closed to banter you need to cycle to a different type of opener. e.g., compliment opener, sincere question ("So what are you up to?" "What brings you out today?"), etc.

I like leading with banter personally though because if it hits you get a great interaction right out of the gates. Girl lights up, everyone around can see she's really into you, and it's clear man-to-woman from the get-go.

If it doesn't hit, genuine compliment.

If that doesn't hit, it's not looking good... but maybe she's just a square... you can still try something else. Situationally relevant or just boring basic conversation. Some girls have zero banter ability and don't know how to take compliments but will talk to you normally and then surprisingly come out on dates... usually these girls are a bit boring though IMO...

(I would also say: opener style really depends on the guy. I have been telling jokes all my life and get a kick out of teasing people. Honestly I have to restrain myself most of the time to simply just not be full-on trolling. So opening with banter is a good match for me... it is not going to be as 'native' to every guy)

For example the first reaction I would expect after the " That IS a superb ceiling " line, would be some form of " Yes it is" paired with a sceptical look towards me, and more of a dismissive attitude.

It could be that there is something wrong with the way I do the teasing part. After such a reaction, I would generally try to be more grounded and genuine, because I feel if I continue being in such playful energy I create more and more dissimilarity. Can't say it works a lot though. Maybe it is simply a number's game, and sooner or later you meet the girls that will be responsive to your approach.

Yes, if she rejects banter, switch to a different style.

No good comes from hanging up on what isn't working.

Depends on your delivery too, of course. Banter effectiveness is highly dependent on facial expression, body language, and voice tone.

Ideally, you should be able to open girls nonverbally and get them laughing without saying a word. If you can open that way (playful nonverbal) you should not have too much difficulty with opening banter lines.

And regarding the ultra seducer thing, is there ever a scenario where Francis' approach would be preferable in fact? Meaning a more low key, not that stimulating type of approach. I've felt a lot of times that when I simply talk to a girl normally, without doing any particular teasing or techniques to stimulate her especially in daygame, she starts taking me more seriously, like oh this is a cool solid guy I can see myself going out with.

I went too hard with the jokes early on in my seduction career and was basically blowing girls out left and right. I'd just tease them a lot really hard and at first they'd be laughing then they'd look like they got hit by a truck and have to escape the interaction.

I got stuck in the seduction neophyte mentality and was like "Guess I'm just not valuable enough yet -- I need to pump my value more!" but that only made it worse.

Finally I had a mentor point it out to me... he said look man, you are going overboard with these girls. He was watching me talk to them and said they were just feeling like they could not keep up. So he suggested turning down my humor and making it more cooperative.

I overcorrect and went "super sincere seducer" for a while. Just coming in, being totally sincere, fully interested in the girl, no jokes at all, "I am a chill and serious man" vibes. My results plummeted and I couldn't figure out why. I think it took me like half a year to be like, "Maybe I should try adding a single tease in early, just to see what happens?" then did that, and suddenly girls were into me all over again.

So, I mean... that was my experience going the super sincere route.

When I was doing that, girls WOULD stand around and talk to me, and we'd have these really nice conversations, and they would be treating me "like an equal" basically. So for the first however many weeks or months I'd leave thinking, "Man, I nailed it. I connected with that girl really well." But then I just wouldn't bang any of them. And I started wondering what the issue was.

Anyway, if teasing/banter/etc. is interesting to you, check out the videos I'll have out for it probably next month (in advance of the Lush Teases launch). I actually talk about all this stuff plus a bunch more in those. I have the whole "I got really sincere and then girls just totally lost interest in me!" bit in the last video. I think I'm still scarred from that experiment...

Maybe you can just, as you said, begin the interaction as you described and then check what the girl responded to and work with that. Just thinking if there are situations where a playful start will close off the girl more and make it an uphill battle. Not sure if it can be a cultural thing as well, I rarely see Eastern Europeans being very much into banter for example.

It is definitely cultural.

We had a whole discussion on it in advanced years ago.

American love to use banter.

Western Europeans do not really use it so much.

Africans also use it. But African-style banter is different from American-style banter (African is more overt/over-the-top sex jokes), etc.

I have bantered with EE chicks, and they do get attracted, but usually they just respond to it by smile-frowning at you and or playfully smacking you. They do not really banter back..

Chase

 

[KJ Francis]

@Francis,

Good questions here.



I have an article on the early banter process in cold approach with a selection of examples here:

Tactics Tuesdays: Opener Cycling

If at first your opener doesn’t hook, try, try again. That’s the basis of opener cycling: using more than one opener on one girl. Don’t just open weak then plow. Not every time you open a girl will she open with gusto. Sometimes all you get is a blasé response. She doesn't reject you, per se...

www.girlschase.com

Comes from an earlier forum thread where I laid one out and expanded on what the process was.



I wrote this article as a result of that talk:

When to Use Deep Diving with Girls

Some guys try to use deep dives with girls just after meeting them. But this is not the right time for a deep dive. When is? The MIDDLE of the seduction! Contents 1. Deep Diving Origins Experiments w/ DD 2. What If You Dive Early? GF's Early Diving Deep Dive Prerequisites No DD on # Closes Deep...

www.girlschase.com

Think about it like this: in your average cold approach, you have 2-10 minutes to make an impression on her.

You can go for "deep connection." But then her core memory of you is "that guy I really bonded with for like six minutes."

That is cool and all, but there's only so deep you can go in six minutes, and even if you speed-run it and go super deep (she tells you about formative childhood experiences and her deepest darkest fears), it is still just six minutes, and now she has this weird memory of a guy she met walking down the street to whom she told her deepest darkest secrets and then he asked her out and they parted ways. Weird!

OTOH, if you just pump her up with some arousal, coupled with you being a cool dude, her memory of you is one of excitement, curiosity, and potential. "Wow, that guy was really cool. I really enjoyed talking to him. I wonder where it might lead!"

I still recommend using SAC pings. If she doesn't light up for compliance or arousal but she does for similarity, then you want to build similarity on the approach. But you will still usually be better served in the initial approach by doing that through cold reading, imagination games, or bond-building banter (where you two joke around about commonalities or shared opinions), rather than a deep dive. The energy is still too "we just met" and you need something more energetically stimulating.



The importance of her work. Her stuffy bearing or self-importance. Her rush to get to a meeting that will probably just be people sitting around jabbering on about KPIs.

We're all just monkeys in business suits who are going to end up rotting in a grave in 40-70 years. Is any of us really THAT much more important than the rest?



Yep.

Tao of Steve is relevant here:

Seduction According to the Tao of Steve, Pt. 1: Be Desireless

The Tao of Steve gives men 3 rules to seduction. The first of these is “Be desireless.” But just how does being desireless help you hook in girls? In the early days of the seduction community, a little-seen romantic comedy became a hot topic of discussion among seducers. That film was 2000’s The...

www.girlschase.com

That's basically his whole frame.



Nothing terrible there. It's a fine approach.

It's not super grabbing or stimulating. But you don't have to be Mr. Ultra Seducer to get every girl.

If it was me it would've gone something more like:

HER: [takes photo of ceiling]​

​

ME: [stand next to her, very obviously crane my neck to look up at the ceiling] That IS a superb ceiling.​

​

^ opener​

​

HER: [laughs] It's not actually that great.​

​

ME: May I see? [gesture to her phone]​

​

^ compliance ping​

​

HER: [showing picture] It's just a ceiling.​

​

ME: Well, you're an excellent ceiling photographer. You really bring the colors out. [touch her as say this]​

​

^ arousal ping​

​

ME: Why'd you want a picture of that ceiling anyway?​

​

^ similarity ping​

​

HER: [smirk] I just like taking pictures of ceilings.​

​

ME: Uh-huh. What's the REAL reason?​

​

HER: I'm an architect. I need pictures for my site visit.​

​

ME: What kind of architect?​

​

HER: Interior design.​

​

ME: I see. I'm Chase, by the way. [extend hand]​

​

HER: Madison.​

At this point you should have some indication from her whether she responds best to you asking for compliance, you generating arousal, or you seeking commonalities (bonding/similarity). Whichever gets the best response on, you double down on.

If she responded to compliance, ask for more compliance. If she responded to arousal, flirt more, tease more, touch her more. If she responded to similarity, cold read read her / make an educated guess based on what she's told you so far.

Then, on a high point, ask her out and trade contacts.

Chase

Ay, Chasito... Of course I forgot compliance! This is starting to click. Your reverse order SAC ping method makes total sense. This higher level roadmap's really helpful since it's a bit different from the micro level mechanics of flirting/teasing and lays out how to progressively lead things. I am always mindful to accept and reward investment, etc. but do forget to create opportunities like "hand me a napkin?"

Get this... She has a work deadline and then is going out of town, so we set a date for just a couple days shy of a whole month from the meet! She MUST be older than me lol!

I think this is actually my second ever date from cold approach besides walking a girl to my car backseat and an instadate earlier that day. The first was my third ever lay that led to a months long tryst. I think with a much larger sales funnel I can get really good at this.

Texts are pretty spread out like one or two a day, hence all the good mornings.

***

Me: Hey, so I have family events this weekend... Let me know how next week looks for you? I was thinking maybe (cafe name) Tuesday or Wednesday

Her: Hi Francis, hope all is well. I'm on a work deadline next week. I think the following week will be better for me. Can you do (time, month, day)? (Cafe name) works

Me: Sure, keep your head in the game. Looks closed then. How's (cafe2 or cafe3)?

Her: Good morning. (Cafe1) opens at 7 everyday

Me: Morning! How about PM?

Her: Good morning. The afternoon does not work and then I'll be out of town for a couple of days.
The mornings are the only times that work with my schedule right now unfortunately.

Me: Hm well unless you can do Cafe Francis on a Monday on Friday, we'd have to do more like 7:30 before I go into the office... until that schedule clears up

Her: Morning. Things slow down the week of the (date) for an afternoon coffee (5pm)? That Monday or Tuesday works for me.

Me: Hi (her name), great, let's do Tuesday 5pm at (cafe1) then?

Her: That works. Thanks for the flexibility. It's been a lot with work lately lol.

Me: Happy to be flexible with you... I know how deadlines can be. Don't let me distract you!

***

Ok now today I happened to run into her in a completely different coffee shop. She had work stuff on the table, called my name, then got a phone call after I met her gaze, said her name, and she asked what I was doing there. After I got my coffee, I tapped my wrist twice with two fingers like an invisible watch and waved. She smiled big and held eye contact as I slowly walked out.

Fate? I believe in miracles. Not really lol we just apparently share taste in good coffee.

Her: Nice bumping into you! Sorry I wasn't able to get off the call to properly chat. Have a great day!

 

[KJ Francis]

@Chase so I know I need to tease her... but I also don't want to start building conversational threads and would rather just pick up in person. I can feel the oneitis sniffles coming on and need to get approaching pronto, but I really do not like having to give mental space to carrying on conversations through my cell phone... like I have a date and really do not want to start playing text game... I have work to do lol

But I don't know how it feels from her perspective if I go dark until the days leading up to the date. You can't really get to know her or arouse and keep her interest hot over text as her emotions change day to day, right?

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I don’t have a fixed process but a general few principles.

- situational opener that is somewhat witty
- situational opener whereby I’m obviously playing dumb to signal I like her and want to talk to her (better imo)

- holding constant eye contact early looking for facial signals from her

- break the touch barrier early ( hand on the upper arm usually) to gauge reaction

- physical proximity and sending my signals with my body language and facial expressions

I’m really just gauging her reactions and tryna read her signals early in interaction to scan for interest.

the talk doesn’t matter as much.
The faker and dumber the better imo to signal to her “ this is bullshit talk just for me to engage you”

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I’m tuning this amazonian 6’3” ( estimated height ) chick at work. She’s Persian looking w a banging body.

everytime she passes I say “ heyyy” in a sexy tone of voice and give her fuck me eyes. (Signal - I think ur so hot)
She gives me her movie star seduction eyes and a sexy smirk every time she comes up to my floor and passes me . ( signal - I know u do, keep regarding me )

That’s all we do. May go nowwhere But the sexual tension is building over time now

Whenever she is in the area I make and excuse to get near her.

She works w me in a big Org so tryna think how I am gonna try and bang her,
She may not care re the work mates thing,
Or just May like the attention as she’s significantly younger than me.
I may find out where she drinks and just show up ‘by the way’. She’s HAWT!

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

O

I don’t have a fixed process but a general few principles.

- situational opener that is somewhat witty
- situational opener whereby I’m obviously playing dumb to signal I like her and want to talk to her (better imo)

- holding constant eye contact early looking for facial signals from her

- break the touch barrier early ( hand on the upper arm usually) to gauge reaction

- physical proximity and sending my signals with my body language and facial expressions

I’m really just gauging her reactions and tryna read her signals early in interaction to scan for interest.

the talk doesn’t matter as much.
The faker and dumber the better imo to signal to her “ this is bullshit talk just for me to engage you”

I forgot flattery also,
I’m always flattering in a specific OTT / joking way with chicks. Very important ,
In a insincere way I’d call it,

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Hi guys, I just did my first ever coffee shop line approach and got a number from a beautiful Latina architect with a slim waist. She seems maybe a few years older than me, which dampens the dynamic a bit.

So my question is what is your process for banter, like do you have a high level mental model and general strategy in your head? Otherwise the structure of an interaction we might have in mind just treats it as a whole step. I.e. open, banter, check logistics, soft close, get number, icebreaker text, etc.

***

There was some talk on the boards not long ago about deep diving too early. I am still confused about not really getting to know her much in a cold approach that may last five minutes or whatever.

If the deep diving theory is it builds her connection to you, do we really want to skip that until the date? In theory, wouldn't it be an excellent flake reducer? Then you are not random guy from coffee shop... You are someone who knows a bit about her even if not really digging into the "why" of her motivations yet.

So anyways, I am clearly too platonic and seem to be missing breaking the touch barrier, plus flirting from a verbal perspective. I think I have boiled down flirting to simply equalling teasing (sometimes chase framed).

So if I want to create a feeling of her being like a kid sister and laughing a bit, what do you tease girls about when they are impressive women?

She attempted a friend frame here. We had really solid eye contact and she was invested. Luckily I assume attraction enough to think this may be a good thing since it disqualified the boyfriend frame. What is a lover if not a friend who escalates?

Here is the interaction. So what would you guys have done differently? I would ideally just go from opener straight to rapport and really up the level of nonverbal tension and proximity. But apparently that will not work?

***

Saw her taking a photo of the ceiling, then she walked in the coffee shop line behind me and starting browsing the shelves.

"Did you get a good shot?" She said mediocre.

I asked if she was a tourist. She explained working remote. I asked about her accent and got into her history moving around the country for various levels of school.

I ask her name and she asks mine, attempting a business shake. I simply hold and slightly turn her hand. She is an architect doing a rare site visit nearby.

She asks about me in turn with my name ("and what do you do, Francis?) and brushed her hair back a couple times. At this point we both have our coffees and start walking toward seating.

I said I have to get going back to the office, but since she bounces around cafes in the area, how about let's meet for coffee sometime. She says sure but just as friends since she's getting out of a relationship. I say oh fun. She says yeah it's been fun, sort of sarcastic (so I assume still healing). I take her number and her hand again, saying it was nice meeting her. She said Ciao.

Me (one hour later): Nice running into you, (her name). I hope you enjoy the site visit today.
-Francis

Her (one hour later): Hi Francis! Nice meeting you as well. Hope you have a great day!

Here’s some ideas for banter in that interacfion
My bread and butter is “ where ju from” Ive travelled a lot and have lots of stories and tidbits. And generally little tidbits of info of various countries.

So off the top of my head it’d be
Me :” where ju from? You look South American or something”
Her “ Brazil”
Me “ toe-do bene! Whereabouts ?”
Her “ Sau Paulo. cool do u speak Portuguese?”
Me “ nah but had a best friend from São Paulo I love the culture. You guys love life! I love the music and dancing etc”
Her “ we do ! Blah blah”
Me : “ do you do the sexy-samba”
Her “ yup ! ( does a jiggle for me)
Me : “ ooo yes! Niiiiice ! I see u certainly know how to move “
etc etc

so that’s sexy Banter.

If she was from SE asia I might say something funny like “ omg you guys eat fried crickets n stuff hey?! Ewww!”

just light teasing based on their background and making a connection that I know their “tribe”

then “ X girls are so Z hey “ ( something about their culture )

I’d mention something about what their wearing and perhaps flatter her re it but then light tease something else.

Me “I like your earrings. “
her “ thanks but they are not real gold I got them from my grandma blah blah “
Me “ they are quite big tho. They look like clothes hangers haha - do your ears hurt ? Have u stretched earlobes from wearing those ?? the price u gotta pay for fashion hey? “

that’s something I told a chick on a date a few weeks ago.

another bread and butter for me is to frame them as “ dodgy”
You look a bit suss , you may be a XYZ in disguise haha” ( pick whatever - a traffic warden giving u a parking ticket/ a CIA agent whatevs) something light and funny .
Then u have a lil role play with that for a bit,
It’s like comedians and callback humour. Set it up and it can be referred back to multiple times later in the convo.

Just a few quick ideas .hope that helps.
Throw lil light frames on them basically.
They serve it back to me then. like verbal tennis.

it’s “who’s got the better tease?” then.

I like Brent smith . He had a great few lines.
Brent “how are you feeling tonite “
Chick “ good HBU?”
Brent “ sexy. Im feeling… sexy tonight”

I like that one and use it when I can.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Some PUA dude form A Love Systems course I saw once had a great one for stopping a B*txhy chick in her tracks.

her “ why do u have so much grey hair? ”
Him “ cos JESUS hates me!”

that’s a great meta reframe or reframe into absurdity. Hard to remember them all in real time tho.

 

[gameboy]

- situational opener whereby I’m obviously playing dumb to signal I like her and want to talk to her (better imo)

I like this!!!

Haven't considered it yet. Maybe I'm trying to be too witty...

Any examples or ideas how to "play dumb" in a street, or beach cold approach?

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I like this!!!

Haven't considered it yet. Maybe I'm trying to be too witty...

Any examples or ideas how to "play dumb" in a street, or beach cold approach?

This is ‘my way’ most of the time.
I make it REAL obvious it’s a funny pickup and I’m engaging flirting.

hmmm…
Off the top of my head.
For a street approach
Saying @ “excuse me, cna u tell me where is XYZ train station”
when I’m standing right in front of it.

my facial expression should be the obvious giveaway that it’s pure BS.
It’s “ little boy charm” imo I’d call it,
My maxim is the old adage ‘ it’s not what u say it’s the way u say it’.

I can say the single word ‘Hey ‘ in like 10 different ways to convey a different meaning for example.

as per my interactions with the Amazonian at work,

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I also used to do my Tony Montana / al pacino voice and character, especially at my cities Latin festival,

“ hey mang, where JU from honey?”
“ I like Ju , Ju’Re a Tiger mang.. I OWN tigers.

Ju gorgeous mang but Ju have a look on Ju face like you haven’t had FUN in a year!”
Etc etc

it’s like a vocal warm up thing for me, and makes me laugh,

I like to channel my inner Al Pacino, great boomy commanding voice,

mang.

 

[KJ Francis]

@Chase I just got a stake through the heart. This was the hottest girl by FAR I've ever had a date with. The silver lining is it shows me the door for huge potential from cold approach.

If you've got a spare minute, would you mind answering - can you go too far in disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend? I told her on the date I've only ever had open relationships.

Maybe my fundamentals are just lacking.

***

Me: Good morning. I hope you feel some weight off with your work. Still free for decaf tomorrow?

Her: Hi Francis. Yes, got through the deadlines. Tomorrow at five works at (cafe). See you then!

Me: Good to hear! See you (her name)

***

NOTE: the date was a solid two hours then she lost track of time and had to jump to a commitment. She mentioned how we similarly both try to get the other to talk about themselves and have strong eye contact, then mentioned a podcast she heard with an FBI agent saying to get someone to open up they use proximity, frequency, and another she forgot. She also dropped the word fuck a couple times it seemed overly intentional so I mirrored that here. She said she just ended a year long relationship and had to let herself feel the pain through solitude and journaling instead of burying it like she has in the past (implying rebound sex)

Me: I had a good time chatting, (her name). Proximity, frequency, duration, intensity (eyes). You fucked me with the last one. Total blabber mouth. Never again!

Her: Hola! Same Francis, it was nice getting to know you. And don't say never again, you're definitely going to have the talker role

Me: Ay, dios mio... I will let my guard down to your spy techniques if you have good intentions. You're not getting off that easy though.
Let me know when you're free and not dancing off to a board meeting or something?

Her: Hola! Nice Spanish, how much of that was you vs google?
Yes, sounds good. I'm good next Friday for a coffee after work?

Me: Great, how's (downtown cafe)? All me, mami! I only know that, gracias, and ay carumba...
Also buenos noches
*Buenas! Feminine night

Her: Mmm maybe not (downtown cafe) on a Friday afternoon if we're trying to hear each other lol. Let's do (other cafe not downtown)? Five?

[NOTE: she mentioned she lives downtown so I think she was steering me away.

Me: Good point... Not sure I'd be comfortable trusting that level of your proximity technique just yet.
You'll be working there? I may be slightly later depending on how the day goes

Her: Buenos días! Not sure if I'll be working from there yet. Did you want to do 5:30? I'll need to head out around 6:45.

Me: Ah, dancing off again. I was planning to come from (further location), but alas if the stars aren't aligning for an evening together, maybe just give me a shout when you're next at the (cafe where we met in my office building).

Her: lol sounds like a plan

 

[Chase]

@Francis,

If you've got a spare minute, would you mind answering - can you go too far in disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend?

Yes. Because...

I told her on the date I've only ever had open relationships.

All right. The open vs. non-open relationships is a deep underlying attitudinal divide.

People who don't do open relationships generally do not like them very much and view them as gross.

People who do do open relationships OTOH tend to view non-open relationships as restrictive and prudish.

So what do you get if you get one person talking about liking them and another person talking about not?

That is right:

If you are not careful, you get massive dissimilarity!

It is a big -S

You will totally tank your S with her if you do not immediately switch gears into "Even though we hold totally different opinions on this, let's explore how at the DEEPEST level our attitudes are actually the SAME."

Particularly if this is a girl who needs a lot of similarity, you can tank yourself by hanging your hat on any kind of deep reflection of your underlying attitudes that she is not going to share.

Chase

 

[KJ Francis]

@Francis,



Yes. Because...



All right. The open vs. non-open relationships is a deep underlying attitudinal divide.

People who don't do open relationships generally do not like them very much and view them as gross.

People who do do open relationships OTOH tend to view non-open relationships as restrictive and prudish.

So what do you get if you get one person talking about liking them and another person talking about not?

That is right:

If you are not careful, you get massive dissimilarity!

It is a big -S

You will totally tank your S with her if you do not immediately switch gears into "Even though we hold totally different opinions on this, let's explore how at the DEEPEST level our attitudes are actually the SAME."

Particularly if this is a girl who needs a lot of similarity, you can tank yourself by hanging your hat on any kind of deep reflection of your underlying attitudes that she is not going to share.

Chase

Fuck, I have no idea how to walk the line without leading someone on.

She said "marriage and kids have never been on my to do list... What about you?" She works full time remote with her masters (so has gone overseas in the past just to work from for fun), side consulting business, sits on boards, does Latin dance, personable, funny, busty, pencil waist, fashionable, beautiful.

So attitude dissimilarity can tank you even if there's no future there? I told her I might want kids later on in life but don't want to lead girls on and it takes a few months of seeing someone to really know them and where things might go anyways.

I figured that would take the pressure off her thinking I'm trying to lock her down when I'm probably not her ideal long term mate anyways... And that the alternative is to look like a fuckboy she'll just write off.

So I tried and failed to play the middle.

Guess I've got to dial it back. More lover/BF ambugity until after the lay?

Maybe next time.

 

[Chase]

@KJ Francis (lol, "Keyboard Jockey" now, huh?),

HER: Marriage and kids have never been on my to do list... What about you?​

​

YOU: Kids? Yeah maybe in 15 years. Marriage, maybe if it was 100 years ago ​

Then you shag her.

Then you set some open relationship expectations.

Relationship Expectations: Kill Some Impulsiveness and Set Some of These Instead

There's something in a normal relationship called the "honeymoon period." The honeymoon period is the period in the relationship where both parties are blissful and neither one feels the other can do any wrong and everything about one another seems special and amazing and great. Your girl thinks...

www.girlschase.com

e.g., post-sex, "It's really cool that we can just be together like this, without any kind of pressure or expectation about some kind of defined relationship or set of rules or anything."

At some point if she tries to define the relationship, you just frame everything as being about her: "Look, I don't want to put any restrictions on you. I want you to be free to see whomever you want, in whatever kind of capacity you want. Trying to control you or put limits on you is the last thing I want." She will understand from the subtext that what you are telling her applies to both of you.

Chase