Any success stories of asking a girl late?

[NealIRC]

Neal, no offense, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but if you are spending so much time on this and have never dated or had sex I think it might be worth reexamining how you are approaching women. Have you read through the articles on the site and tried to put them into practice?

Um no, I am not about trying to approach women or chase women.

If anything, I'm about "getting approached by women," "getting chased by women" and stuff like that. Attracting women without pursuing them. Theoretical attraction and actual attraction.

Approaching girls is easy - getting approached by girls, however, I take it is a real art.
Pursuing girls is easy too - getting pursued by girls, most likely not.

The way you describe your process to us is that you walk up to random girls, ask them bizzare social questions, then turn around and leave. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? Because I think anyone here could tell you that such an approach will not yield good results.

So that's not an approach. It's called, "not discriminating someone by gender."

If I walked up to a girl and asked her x questions, and then after she answered them, and I left. What does it tell me.

It'll tell me if I got a sense she'd rather I didn't leave. Or that I should ask more questions. Or she regrets not asking me questions. Or I should have stayed longer. Etc.

Ask yourself - if women don't have your contact info, is it your loss or theirs?

So if I'm asking women questions in a background like college, where they could in theory see me on and off throughout the semester, then it's like I'm building a relation with them.

 

[lostnumber]

I don't want this to come off as a personal attack, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I dont really understand what your endgame is. Do you want to have sex? If so approaching girls in one form or another is going to be a necessary step.

Its fine to be a virgin! We all were one at one point. I, technically I lost my virginity at 16, but I didnt get a girl again until I was 20 and discovered this site. That was a longgggg four years.

All this "true mastery is having girls approach me" stuff doesn't hold water, and it sounds to me like you are trying to rationalize a lack of results instead of buckling down and improving your methods. Not trying to be mean, just calling it like I see it.

I had no game when I started college, really whatever point you are at, I was likely just as bad or worse. Then I found GC and put the work into into learning and bettering myself. Its many years into my journey, but so far this week I got laid on Saturday, I got laid on Sunday, I got laid on Tuesday, and I'm seeing a new girl tonight where my end goal is to hopefully get laid. Is that the lifestyle you want? Because it can definitely be yours if you put the work in, I can tell you from experience! But first you have to be honest with yourself and admit that whatever methods you are using aren't getting you the results you want.

So if I'm asking women questions in a background like college, where they could in theory see me on and off throughout the semester, then it's like I'm building a relation with them.

This isn't how it works man. A relationship with a woman involves spending time together, having meaningful conversation, going to do activities. Ideally it involves having sex. Occasionally bumping into a girl you talked to once on campus is NOT a relationship, and if that is your goal you aren't aiming high enough.

If your intention is to become a celibate monk then disregard everything I'm saying. I just dont want you to fool yourself and think that amazing results are magically going to come to you if you wait around long enough and ask questions on forums without putting anything into practice.

Understand that I'm calling you out here because I want to see you succeed. If you say to me "lostnumber, in my heart of hearts I'm truly happy with where I am in life, and have no desire to kiss girls, or sleep with them, or find a compatible life partner to have Children" then I'll lay off. Or if you tell me "lost number, I'm getting laid left and right so have no reason to listen to you or anyone else here" then I'll apologize. I have a hunch that neither of those statements are true though.

 

[NealIRC]

I don't want this to come off as a personal attack, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I dont really understand what your endgame is. Do you want to have sex? If so approaching girls in one form or another is going to be a necessary step.

And how is the girl supposed to feel if she felt you were approaching her just for the sex?

All this "true mastery is having girls approach me" stuff doesn't hold water, and it sounds to me like you are trying to rationalize a lack of results instead of buckling down and improving your methods. Not trying to be mean, just calling it like I see it.

But don't you follow the law of least effort? What about being the least desperate?

I had no game when I started college, really whatever point you are at, I was likely just as bad or worse. Then I found GC and put the work into into learning and bettering myself. So far this week I got laid on Saturday, I got laid on Sunday, I got laid on Tuesday, and I'm seeing a new girl tonight where my end goal is to hopefully get laid. Is that the lifestyle you want? Because it can definitely be yours if you put the work in, I can tell you from experience! But first you have to be honest with yourself and admit that whatever methods you are using aren't getting you the results you want.

Okay, here comes a surprise. Sex and oral is not going to turn me on.

Let's say a girl sucks my dick.

And then, a girl sucks my dick "while being fully nude."

Well, the part of she being fully nude - is more of a turn on to me, than the sucking dick part.

I mean think about it. If you closed your eyes and let a straight woman suck your dick and a gay man suck your dick, can you tell it apart?

Regarding sex, the best part of sex when you're a man, imo, is the ejaculation part. And you don't need a vagina to ejaculate into. You can get tissue, napkins, Kleenex, etc, to ejaculate into.

If a girl wearing jeans and fully clothed just unzipped her pants so I can let the dick in, that's really nothing special to me. But if she had sex with me while she was naked, the nudity part is more of a turn-on for me.

If I've never attracted a girl to have sex with me, then it's depressing to me. But if I attracted a girl to the point where she was willing to have sex with me, but it just didn't happen, I feel like my goal has been accomplished, that I am now worth something. And then on to try it on the next girl, and so forth.

So if I'm asking women questions in a background like college, where they could in theory see me on and off throughout the semester, then it's like I'm building a relation with them.

This isn't how it works man. A relationship with a woman involves spending time together, having meaningful conversation, going to do activities. Ideally it involves having sex. Occasionally bumping into a girl you talked to once on campus is NOT a relationship, and if that is your goal you aren't aiming high enough.

Right, it's not a relationship, it's spitting game. As we all know, they are different things.

If your intention is to become a celibate monk then disregard everything I'm saying. I just dont want you to fool yourself and think that amazing results are magically going to come to you if you wait around long enough and ask questions on forums without putting anything into practice.

Right, but there's a difference between being a celibate monk where "no women ever wanted to sex with me" versus a celibate monk where lots of women did want to sex with me - the ones I found attractive.

Understand that I'm calling you out here because I want to see you succeed. If you say to me "lostnumber, in my heart of hearts I'm truly happy with where I am in life, and have no desire to kiss girls, or sleep with them, or find a compatible life partner to have Children" then I'll lay off.

Right, I have no desire to kiss girls - only to get kissed by girls, and for girls to desire me to kiss them, even if it didn't happen.

Or if you tell me "lost number, I'm getting laid left and right so have no reason to listen to you or anyone else here" then I'll apologize. I have a hunch that neither of those statements are true though.

;p

 

[Michal]

Neal,

I wanted to address this earlier but I did not know where the issue was. But I am confident that I know now so I will describe something and shed light on things that I believe are holding you back. Do not take this as an attack or anything hostile because I am just describing what I noticed below, simply because my behaviour was the same in the past. How you take it depends on you, whether your ego tries to protect itself and dish everything or if you will read that with open mind. Anyway, here it goes.

I noticed this and I will address this first:

All this "true mastery is having girls approach me" stuff doesn't hold water, and it sounds to me like you are trying to rationalize a lack of results instead of buckling down and improving your methods. Not trying to be mean, just calling it like I see it.

But don't you follow the law of least effort? What about being the least desperate?

You are taking this too literally AND more importantly, you are looking at it from the perspective/role of a woman - you are not a woman, you are a man.. it is your responsibility to approach if you want to date girls, have sex with them... have relations with them. You not approaching is not you being "not desperate" but you being "shy guy with no balls". Now the key thing to understand, it is not that you are either born with "balls to approach" or not --- nobody is --- it is about you putting yourself out there and developing those balls. Some people do that, some dont, it is a choice.

If I've never attracted a girl to have sex with me, then it's depressing to me. But if I attracted a girl to the point where she was willing to have sex with me, but it just didn't happen, I feel like my goal has been accomplished, that I am now worth something. And then on to try it on the next girl, and so forth.

Took some time but I would say here, the bold part, you identified the root cause of your situation. And that is a great thing! I dont say that to put you down, or imply that you are not worth but a lot of things you wrote here supports that - you simply dont feel worthy and if you could have "the power", that the girls were attracted to you, you would feel worth, like you have value. How do I know this is the case? Because I had the exact same problem and I was in the same situation.

Right, I have no desire to kiss girls - only to get kissed by girls, and for girls to desire me to kiss them, even if it didn't happen.

This just proves my point. It is a combination of your self-worth problem and a wrong mental model about the roles in the human mating I mentioned earlier - men pick and approach, women are approached and choose the man they like the most and also the belief that if you do approach as a guy, you are desperate --- which is not the case, it is your responsibility. You have a bad mindset, that is not an end of the world. Second part is, you wish for yourself that girls valued you so much that they would want to kiss you. Why this particular example with a girl kissig you? Because you most likely never had that before. You most likely never had any girls be trully interested in you, therefore it feels like the ultimate "I made it" scenario.

Now, as I said I was in the same situation... here is what I was in:

The first girl who liked me was my childhood love when I was 6. Pretty great. Then, 7 months later there was a situation that traumatized me for the majority of my life (still getting over that in a way) and it took like 11 years from that moment for a girl to show any interest in me... after that... it took another 8 and she was just friendly because she was that super popular, social girl who was just extroverted and warm and I misread that. Basically she friendzoned me the moment we met in the class. I never had a female friend until about 2 years ago, I never had a kiss, sex or a relationship until about 2 years ago. Why? Because there was some belief in the back of my mind that I do not deserve to have that. Why? Probably because I felt like I have nothing to offer. My father never showed any interest in anything I did, if he said anything, it was like "dont touch this, you will break it" or "if its broken, tell me and I will fix it, dont try it yourself" in innocent situations. Naturally, I could not be good with girls because I was not good with people and never had much confidence.

What did I do to start getting over that?
I noticed how the popular "friend girl" who friendzoned me looked at the guys with well built body. She was technically my first female friend but after the semester ended, I realized we were just classmates. She was a bleached blonde and did karate for 16 years so logically she wanted a real man, not a scrawny little boy.

And then I was about to start my journey...

About 4 months after that realization, I stepped into the gym and that started my journey. I put on quite a lot of muscle in first 8 months and people were noticing. I was not a scrawny stick anymore, I was just slim, almost normal guy. The second thing was that I learned to cook. It was always my mom making meals and now "I had the ability to feed myself". During that time, when I was in the university and worked out and cooked for myself, I also did what I liked, make videos on youtube. Expressed myself in ways. I was 9gagging a lot and whenever there was a post about some guy beign depressed or suicidal, I just laid out all that knew at that time to fight that. I made one big comment and replied to it with 40 other replies and over the next two weeks, people were replying and thanking me. Point is, I was giving out value and I felt fulfilled because I really like to help people. Next big thing I did was that after 2 years of being on this path, I went to "car school" to get my driver's license. I was always so afraid to drive a car, I was always afraid of people judging me and I still am. But I believe that getting that driver's licence and then my parents got me this ok car for my 25th birthday that I could drive which meant that I could build some self-confidence in more of my abilities. Next thing, to finish a university and get a degree because my parents always told me either explicitly or implicitly that school is the most important thing. So in a way, I felt like I satisfied their need. Last, very big thing that helped me and got my self-confidence to a new level was when I got hired right after I finished the school with above average pay in a field and position that I liked. Not to mention among people that are in the company.

I believe you need the same -- which is not the superficial stuff like get a degree or a driver's licence.. well, the gym should help trendemously -- but facing and conquering your fears. Look, Neal, to do that.. you will have to have a hard and honest look at yourself FIRST. And ask yourself, whether what you are doing is giving you the results you want? If you do not come up with an answer that it is your own responsibility. If you start blaming your situation (like I did for about 5 years) on something external, you will not get anywhere. In a way, there are both external and internal forces at fault but at then end, the cards were dealt and it's only you who can make something with them. You must realize this first. And then, you can stand up and go face your fears. And some day, yes, you will see girls being attracted to you. But you need to address the real issues first.

 

[lostnumber]

Awesome post Michal! Thanks for sharing your story. You made a lot of the points I wanted to make better than I ever could've.

@Neal

One thing I want to add is that your perceptions are very skewed on sex because, well, youve never had it. I guarantee you that if you have a proper roll in the hay you will come back here metaphorically screaming at the top of your lungs about how great it is and how your perspective has done a complete 180.

You say you dont want sex, but I think really you are afraid of not being able to get it, and this is your minds defense mechanism against that. Its crazy the kind of mental gyrations our subconscious will go through to convince us that we are right and the world is wrong, or that we didn't really want that thing we didn't get anyway.

Realize that sex is an amazing, wonderful, natural thing, and virtually every living creature is hardwired to want it. There is a reason this forum and website exist.

Now if you get a few lays under your belt and say "This whole vagina thing isn't for me, I prefer a tissue thank you very much." then fair play to you. But I can say with confidence that isnt going to happen

 

[NealIRC]

You are taking this too literally AND more importantly, you are looking at it from the perspective/role of a woman - you are not a woman, you are a man.. it is your responsibility to approach if you want to date girls, have sex with them... have relations with them.

This is why I make it a challenge.

The challenge is to find out to what extent can this be reversed?

This is like introducing atheism to a church, or introducing Christianity to Native Americans when Europeans settled.

If you lived in a world where 99% of women pursued men, spread their legs for men, most likely you would be preaching them to do the opposite.

You not approaching is not you being "not desperate" but you being "shy guy with no balls".

Or, a guy who's not interested...

(And a guy who's not interested, is independent of big balls or small balls.).

Now the key thing to understand, it is not that you are either born with "balls to approach" or not --- nobody is --- it is about you putting yourself out there and developing those balls. Some people do that, some dont, it is a choice.

Nah, I think most men have an instinct to approach women. It's not really a choice.

And it isn't that women have a "lack of an instinct" on approaching men, but are actually against approaching men.

If I've never attracted a girl to have sex with me, then it's depressing to me. But if I attracted a girl to the point where she was willing to have sex with me, but it just didn't happen, I feel like my goal has been accomplished, that I am now worth something. And then on to try it on the next girl, and so forth.

Took some time but I would say here, the bold part, you identified the root cause of your situation. And that is a great thing! I dont say that to put you down, or imply that you are not worth but a lot of things you wrote here supports that - you simply dont feel worthy and if you could have "the power", that the girls were attracted to you, you would feel worth, like you have value. How do I know this is the case? Because I had the exact same problem and I was in the same situation.

K.

Right, I have no desire to kiss girls - only to get kissed by girls, and for girls to desire me to kiss them, even if it didn't happen.

This just proves my point. It is a combination of your self-worth problem and a wrong mental model about the roles in the human mating I mentioned earlier - men pick and approach, women are approached and choose the man they like the most and also the belief that if you do approach as a guy, you are desperate --- which is not the case, it is your responsibility. You have a bad mindset, that is not an end of the world. Second part is, you wish for yourself that girls valued you so much that they would want to kiss you. Why this particular example with a girl kissig you? Because you most likely never had that before. You most likely never had any girls be trully interested in you, therefore it feels like the ultimate "I made it" scenario.

Now, as I said I was in the same situation... here is what I was in:

Well, I don't see how your below scenario fits mine.

And then I was about to start my journey...

About 4 months after that realization, I stepped into the gym and that started my journey. I put on quite a lot of muscle in first 8 months and people were noticing. I was not a scrawny stick anymore, I was just slim, almost normal guy.

Yes, I do weight lifting too.

The second thing was that I learned to cook. It was always my mom making meals and now "I had the ability to feed myself". During that time, when I was in the university and worked out and cooked for myself,

I don't cook, but I eat out. Eating out gets me to be seen by other restaurant employees, which is better than dining alone.

I also did what I liked, make videos on youtube.

Same here. I've uploaded videos on YouTube.

Expressed myself in ways. I was 9gagging a lot and whenever there was a post about some guy beign depressed or suicidal, I just laid out all that knew at that time to fight that. I made one big comment and replied to it with 40 other replies and over the next two weeks, people were replying and thanking me. Point is, I was giving out value and I felt fulfilled because I really like to help people.

Yes I do too - I sometimes contribute to homework help related topics (chemistry, computers).

Next big thing I did was that after 2 years of being on this path, I went to "car school" to get my driver's license. I was always so afraid to drive a car, I was always afraid of people judging me and I still am. But I believe that getting that driver's licence and then my parents got me this ok car for my 25th birthday that I could drive which meant that I could build some self-confidence in more of my abilities.

I don't drive, for the same reasons I don't cook. I take public transportation, and therefore use that as an opportunity to meet a lot of people. And know a lot of people and be seen by a lot of people. Which beats driving alone.

Next thing, to finish a university and get a degree because my parents always told me either explicitly or implicitly that school is the most important thing. So in a way, I felt like I satisfied their need. Last, very big thing that helped me and got my self-confidence to a new level was when I got hired right after I finished the school with above average pay in a field and position that I liked. Not to mention among people that are in the company.

Yes, I too have graduated from college, and I still take colleges courses on and off. But I don't have as much luck finding good employment.

I believe you need the same -- which is not the superficial stuff like get a degree or a driver's licence.. well, the gym should help trendemously -- but facing and conquering your fears.

But none of these are fears.

In fact, I tell women what my fears are - as well as my flaws, weaknesses, and insecurities. Because I'm not afraid, not insecure.

Look, Neal, to do that.. you will have to have a hard and honest look at yourself FIRST. And ask yourself, whether what you are doing is giving you the results you want? If you do not come up with an answer that it is your own responsibility. If you start blaming your situation (like I did for about 5 years) on something external, you will not get anywhere. In a way, there are both external and internal forces at fault but at then end, the cards were dealt and it's only you who can make something with them. You must realize this first. And then, you can stand up and go face your fears. And some day, yes, you will see girls being attracted to you. But you need to address the real issues first.

And some girls have been attracted to me, but they're either too shy (not enough balls) or have gem mentality.

So those are 2 things I should work on: how to increase the confidence of women, and, how to destroy a woman's gem mentality?

 

[NealIRC]

Awesome post Michal! Thanks for sharing your story. You made a lot of the points I wanted to make better than I ever could've.

@Neal

One thing I want to add is that your perceptions are very skewed on sex because, well, youve never had it. I guarantee you that if you have a proper roll in the hay you will come back here metaphorically screaming at the top of your lungs about how great it is and how your perspective has done a complete 180.

This Is actually the same argument cokeheads say to non-cokeheads about cocaine. "Cocaine is so great if you've tried it, but if you haven't, then you're missing out."

Regardless of how true this argument is (arguments of this nature), it shouldn't be meaningful.

You say you dont want sex, but I think really you are afraid of not being able to get it, and this is your minds defense mechanism against that. Its crazy the kind of mental gyrations our subconscious will go through to convince us that we are right and the world is wrong, or that we didn't really want that thing we didn't get anyway.

Realize that sex is an amazing, wonderful, natural thing, and virtually every living creature is hardwired to want it. There is a reason this forum and website exist.

Now if you get a few lays under your belt and say "This whole vagina thing isn't for me, I prefer a tissue thank you very much." then fair play to you. But I can say with confidence that isnt going to happen

If I did say I don't want sex, I should clarify.

-I don't want to have sex with a girl when she is fully-clothed.
-If she is completely naked, then that itself is more fascinating to me than to have sex with me while she is fully clothed.

So, it's comparative. Sex is only good for me if she is in the nude, otherwise, it isn't meaningful to me.

 

[Michal]

Neal,

you miss the point of every example I provided ... and more importantly... WHY I provided that example.

A) I mentioned learning to drive ----> because there was a fear behind it that I needed to get rid of. How do you get rid of fears? You do the thing you fear. That fear was me being out there, doing normal thing and possibly be a burden or an obstacle for others.
B) I mentioned finishing the university which left my parents satisfied with me and they exuded I am on a higher level now and not a kid anymore ----> because it gave me a boost to my self-worth
C) I mentioned cooking ----> because I was basically dependant on my mom feeding me and now I learned a skill which gave me confidence in some of my abilties.

Here is what I conclude you read:
A) superficials - drive, why drive, I use public transport ... geez
B) again, superficials - I have a degree too, so? Oh, you got hired.. lucker
C) once again, superficial reading - cooking? you cook to eat, but I eat out because [insert reason]... so why cook?

Anyways...
You said you do not approach women, you want them to come to you.

Ok, I think I understand... you dont want to seem desperate, so tell me truthfuly:
1 - How many girls did approach you in the past month?
2 - How many dates did you set up in the past month?
3 - How many dates did you have in the past month?
4 - How many times did you kiss a girl?
5 - How many times did a girl kiss you?
6 - How many times did a girl WANT to kiss you?
7 - How many times did you have sex with a girl?
8 - How many times did a girl show you she wants to have sex with you?
9 - How long was your last relationship?
10 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating do the girls need to have for you to feel satisfied?
11 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that approach you?
12 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that go on a date with you?
13 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that kiss you?
14 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that have sex you?
15 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that you are in a relationship with?

Now... are the answers to those questions (which are your results) satisfying you? Are you getting what you want?

Last question - can you tell me that this strategy that you employ is giving you everything you want out of your dating life?

 

[NealIRC]

Neal,

you miss the point of every example I provided ... and more importantly... WHY I provided that example.

A) I mentioned learning to drive ----> because there was a fear behind it that I needed to get rid of. How do you get rid of fears? You do the thing you fear. That fear was me being out there, doing normal thing and possibly be a burden or an obstacle for others.
B) I mentioned finishing the university which left my parents satisfied with me and they exuded I am on a higher level now and not a kid anymore ----> because it gave me a boost to my self-worth
C) I mentioned cooking ----> because I was basically dependant on my mom feeding me and now I learned a skill which gave me confidence in some of my abilties.



Here is what I conclude you read:
A) superficials - drive, why drive, I use public transport ... geez
B) again, superficials - I have a degree too, so? Oh, you got hired.. lucker
C) once again, superficial reading - cooking? you cook to eat, but I eat out because [insert reason]... so why cook?

But I don't have fears of these. Nor do I have fears of approaching women.

Anyways...
You said you do not approach women, you want them to come to you.

Ok, I think I understand... you dont want to seem desperate, so tell me truthfuly:
1 - How many girls did approach you in the past month?
2 - How many dates did you set up in the past month?
3 - How many dates did you have in the past month?
4 - How many times did you kiss a girl?
5 - How many times did a girl kiss you?
6 - How many times did a girl WANT to kiss you?
7 - How many times did you have sex with a girl?
8 - How many times did a girl show you she wants to have sex with you?
9 - How long was your last relationship?
10 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating do the girls need to have for you to feel satisfied?
11 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that approach you?
12 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that go on a date with you?
13 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that kiss you?
14 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that have sex you?
15 - On a scale from 1 to 10, for personality and looks, what rating would you give to the girls that you are in a relationship with?

Now... are the answers to those questions (which are your results) satisfying you? Are you getting what you want?

Last question - can you tell me that this strategy that you employ is giving you everything you want out of your dating life?

None of this... is my goal.

And now my questions for you.

Have you ever attracted women so hard, where.

-You sat by yourself in the cafeteria, and women decided to sit in the same table as you, or, wished you sat in their table.
-You sat by yourself on a bench at the mall or park, and women seeing you, approached you, or wished you noticed them or and approached them.

You ever spit so much game to a woman, that she *wished* you pursued her?

I did it to this girl below...

In fact, I attracted and spit game to her so good, and didn't pursue her, that she got mad at me for not pursuing her, but that's another story for another time.

 

[lostnumber]

*face palm*

Neal, you really dont get it. Guys who are light years ahead of you are trying to help you and you're brushing us off and ignoring our points.
You keep trying to say picking up girls or having sex with them isn't your goal, but then why are you here?

You are a horse that has been shown the water and doesn't want to drink. I dont think there is anything we can do for you if you aren't willing to change your mentality and put the work in.

PS is the girl you are talking about the one on the left or the one on the right?

 

[NealIRC]

*face palm*

Neal, you really dont get it. Guys who are light years ahead of you are trying to help you and you're brushing us off and ignoring our points.
You keep trying to say picking up girls or having sex with them isn't your goal, but then why are you here?

To find ideas, like other ideas on how to attract without pursuing.

As well as ask questions on female mentality - like, the effect of shirtless of men versus non-shirtless of men, how that affects women.

For example, we know that if the woman is a cashier or store employee, and a customer is into her, she knows if he really wants her, he'll come back to the store as a reoccurring customer. So what about the other way around? What if the guy is the employee and he attracts the shit out of female customers, will female customers come back to the store? These are questions I come here to ask.

You are a horse that has been shown the water and doesn't want to drink. I dont think there is anything we can do for you if you aren't willing to change your mentality and put the work in.

But I'm trying to see how is other people's mentality better? If you can get girls without pursuing them, is that better than getting girls where you pursued them 1st?

PS is the girl you are talking about the one on the left or the one on the right?

So 2 things about her, she is Hispanic and she is in a gang. I'm White and Asian. Not only are Hispanic girls usually don't go for White or Asian guys, but also girls in gangs do not go for guys not in gangs. So this was a double whammy for me.

We're in Chicago, and she's a member of the largest Hispanic gang in Chicago. Called Latin Kings. Her profile had pictures of the king's crown symbols and such.

Edit: And I prefer girls in gangs because they're more confident. Some girls in gangs walk around their neighborhood in bikinis. If you say "isn't that dangerous if there are gangs?" well thing is, they're protected by the gangs. As well as a part of the gang itself.

She had image quotes like "I'm not afraid to do this" and I'm not afraid of that, including to speak my mind.

 

[lostnumber]

But I'm trying to see how is other people's mentality better? If you can get girls without pursuing them, is that better than getting girls where you pursued them 1st?

The point we are trying to drill into your head is that you can't. You have this idea that somehow girls are going to magically approach you and be attracted to you without you doing anything, and that's just now how it works. You've clearly been trying your way for a while now and have zero results. None. Zippo. Your best result you can show is that some girl who, frankly, I find very unattractive, got mad at you because you didn't court her. Do you honestly feel like that is a success story???

Others mentality is better because it works. We pursue girls and we get them. You are not pursuing anyone and not getting anything. How do you not see the difference?

Michal really opened himself up for you and tried to connect with you, and you basically said "No, I'm nothing like you" and completely brushed him off. Then he asked you a bunch of detailed questions to try and understand where you are coming from and you totally ignored him. Do you not get how that's kind of a dick move?

You aren't being negative or toxic, so I guess if you want to keep coming here and posting weird questions its no skin off my back. But I doubt you're going to find many people willing to engage you when you've blown off the people who have tried to help you so rudely

 

[Michal]

In fact, I attracted and spit game to her so good, and didn't pursue her, that she got mad at me for not pursuing her, but that's another story for another time.

Ok, man, I guess you are the boss here. Could you tell me how you know that the reason she got mad at you was because you did not pursue her? It seems you are very certain about that so I would like to have some pointers about what behaviour causes girls to block you for this very reason.

 

[Michal]

Do you honestly feel like that is a success story???

He most likely does. Here is why: there is a girl who he finds pretty and she kept replying to him, which means she gave him attention. Maybe he thinks she was investing in him because maybe she shared something about her that seemed personal. The reason this is a success is because it probably was not just one or two messages but more importantly, there was never a girl like her to give him attention.
It is success for him because it shows progress, going from point A) no attention at all from girls he likes to point B) some attention from one girl he likes.
Next phase is, point C) - have a girl like that like him (maybe he thinks she already did because he made a joke and she sent the emoticon)
Next phase D) - become friends with a girl, do that they spend time together and chat and most importantly, have connection - does not matter there would be no attraction, the connection is what he will crave in phase D.
---- and this is where is focus shifts in the right direction because he will start to get on the right road. Now, he is on the "get her to like me" road. So he focuses on not showing a sexual intent but friendly one so that he can get a girl he likes LIKE him back. The reason this shift is good is because he goes from "like me" to "finds me attractive". He will go from "reaction oriented mindset to "objective results oriented mindset" So...
Next phase E) - have a girl like that show signs of attraction in him like a look or smile at him or touch him or be very close to him physically and warm because other girls are cold.
Next phase F) - does not matter because now he is on the right path to a degree.

So, to some it up, he may not think it is a success but emotionally he feels it is a success.

How do I know? Because that is the exact pattern that I went through.

Therefore, we can either try to get to him rationally that what he is doing is not going to work... or give him pointer that he stops being a creep, make him more socially atunned and then, when he becomes friends with a girl, moves very slowly with her that one day she will talk about her boyfriend with him, he realizes that his strategy is flawed. But at that point, he will have those unsatisfied emotional needs from the past someone satisfied because a girl he likes likes him back in a way, and he will come here and be like "yo guys, girls like me, but they dont seem to be attracted, what do I do". And we will tell him "yo, Neal, welcome back, how you doin'? Ok, they are not attracted because your fundamentals are not handled yet. So .. first, in this picture, the suit is too baggy for you, lets get you something that fits well. Second, the blue shirt makes you look like an unsuccessful lawyer wanna-be. Third, you have a sad puppy expression on your face, not really good. If you have a rough patch in life, thats ok, on brighter days, you will have a brighter expression. If this is your general mood, work on your life so that it proveds enough positive emotions that you never look like a sad puppy again. Fourth, your posture says either "I am self-conscious" or "I have doubts about my abilities" or "I am not that open person". So, Neal, my man, you can either consciously keep your posture straight by puffing out your chest and back straight, or go to gym, get your middle and lower traps stronger, your deep abs stronger, your hamstrings stronger, your glutes stronger, stretch yourt quads, stretch your chest and your front deltoid." And Neal will go, get a better suit, fix his posture and then come back for more pointers.

But now, he is stuck in his mindset, because as I said, emotionally, he feels there is a progress.

 

[Lover]

Michal, lostnumber:

From what I can tell, Neal's girl-getting paradigm is "she must woo me" (-ish). as long as this is the case, there is not much convincing any of us can do. And I say this because I have been there. My long term FWB from years ago signaled her availability to me very obviously, and I had never imagined I'd get into a sexual relationship with her back then. Would we have a sexual relationship if I didn't kiss her first? Very unlikely! I think most girls, like 99,99 % (let's just say 100 %) of girls will signal their availability, but that's the most they'll do. If you are satisfied knowing she desires you (whether she actually desires you, or you perceive it that way falsely), a girl signaling she is available might be enough.

However, if you want stuff (kisses, nudity, sex etc.) to happen between you, it's on the guy. No two ways about it.

Neal:

The way you want to pick up girls, is not impossible, but I believe it's very, very inefficient. It might work on a very small minority of women, and because of that I find it stupid (and I can imagine guys like Michal and lostnumber feel the same way). You also have a goal that is far away from the average GC member, and none of us can take that away from you. You do you, and we do us. However, I think it's weird you ask these questions to help you with your current goal on a site that encourages men to take more action, not less. You might wanna reconsider that.

 

[NealIRC]

Do you honestly feel like that is a success story???

He most likely does. Here is why: there is a girl who he finds pretty and she kept replying to him, which means she gave him attention. Maybe he thinks she was investing in him because maybe she shared something about her that seemed personal. The reason this is a success is because it probably was not just one or two messages but more importantly, there was never a girl like her to give him attention.

It is success for him because it shows progress, going from point A) no attention at all from girls he likes to point B) some attention from one girl he likes.

But at the same time, I was disappointed. Because this girl was never 1st to strike up a conversation with me, and, never even complimented me.

And she wasn't giving me attention. She was being real with me.

Most girls as you know, are real fake with guys they don't know. By fake I mean if you asked a random woman a question and she be sarcastic with you.

But you know, she only talked if I talked to her 1st. So after some days, I decided to halt talking to her for 3 weeks. And when I did that, she seemed bitchy, horny, etc.

Next phase is, point C) - have a girl like that like him (maybe he thinks she already did because he made a joke and she sent the emoticon)
Next phase D) - become friends with a girl, do that they spend time together and chat and most importantly, have connection - does not matter there would be no attraction, the connection is what he will crave in phase D.
---- and this is where is focus shifts in the right direction because he will start to get on the right road. Now, he is on the "get her to like me" road. So he focuses on not showing a sexual intent but friendly one so that he can get a girl he likes LIKE him back. The reason this shift is good is because he goes from "like me" to "finds me attractive". He will go from "reaction oriented mindset to "objective results oriented mindset" So...
Next phase E) - have a girl like that show signs of attraction in him like a look or smile at him or touch him or be very close to him physically and warm because other girls are cold.
Next phase F) - does not matter because now he is on the right path to a degree.

So, to some it up, he may not think it is a success but emotionally he feels it is a success.

How do I know? Because that is the exact pattern that I went through.

None of this happened.

Therefore, we can either try to get to him rationally that what he is doing is not going to work...

Not going to work for what? I assumed she was not inclined to pursue me, so it was still an experiment. It was also for sport.

or give him pointer that he stops being a creep, make him more socially atunned and then, when he becomes friends with a girl, moves very slowly with her that one day she will talk about her boyfriend with him,

If she talks about having a boyfriend, then it means my goal is accomplished, I did a good job.

he realizes that his strategy is flawed. But at that point, he will have those unsatisfied emotional needs from the past someone satisfied because a girl he likes likes him back in a way, and he will come here and be like "yo guys, girls like me, but they dont seem to be attracted, what do I do". And we will tell him "yo, Neal, welcome back, how you doin'? Ok, they are not attracted because your fundamentals are not handled yet. So .. first, in this picture, the suit is too baggy for you, lets get you something that fits well. Second, the blue shirt makes you look like an unsuccessful lawyer wanna-be. Third, you have a sad puppy expression on your face, not really good. If you have a rough patch in life, thats ok, on brighter days, you will have a brighter expression. If this is your general mood, work on your life so that it proveds enough positive emotions that you never look like a sad puppy again. Fourth, your posture says either "I am self-conscious" or "I have doubts about my abilities" or "I am not that open person". So, Neal, my man, you can either consciously keep your posture straight by puffing out your chest and back straight, or go to gym, get your middle and lower traps stronger, your deep abs stronger, your hamstrings stronger, your glutes stronger, stretch yourt quads, stretch your chest and your front deltoid." And Neal will go, get a better suit, fix his posture and then come back for more pointers.

But now, he is stuck in his mindset, because as I said, emotionally, he feels there is a progress.

Anyways, there was a problem with this girl. Her balls weren't big enough. So this was a failed experiment.

When I attracted this girl so hard, did she have the balls to admit it? Apparently not. And she would be ashamed to admit it. Even though I let her know indirectly that I love sluts and preferred women who didn't slut-shame.

 

[NealIRC]

Here's what I did.

She's part of the Latin Kings gang, so messaged her on Facebook about the Latin Kings, no she wasn't gonna tell me shit. September.

Showed her a bunch of collages I made about Chicago gangs, which she ignored.

Christmas Day, messaged her Merry Christmas. Latin King holiday Jan. 6, messaged her happy king's day, and posted pictures of some of their symbols, like lions with crowns.

Valentine's Day, messaged her happy Valentine's Day, and picture of rose.

A couple days after we messaged.

I used homoeroticism: showed her pictures of some of the top Latin King leaders and who she thought was the "hottest" guy, and then I told her who I thought was the "sexiest" guy, as well as who I thought was the noblest guy.

Later told her I wanted to hire her as a model, for a poster, and she responds with what I wanna hire a model for.

Next day offer to take her shopping downtown for shoes, and she makes the I don't know you enough.

Anti-slut shaming: tell her I'd like to take her to the beach in the summer, and when guys check out her ass/tits, tell her which guys were checking her out, when she walks around.

Pick-up lines.

"Baby you so hella fine, whenever you move into a house or apartment, then the neighborhood of the house/apartment undergoes gentrification."

Then, when I did gang-related pick-up lines, she stopped responding.

"Baby you so hella fine, you could unite the kings and SDs if you wanted to."
"Baby you so hella fine, if you became a police officer you could make bay boys into nice guys."
"And if you became a cop some day, I'd support you all the way."

Then, I stopped messaging her for 3 weeks...

3 weeks later, she seemed bitchy and horny.

I made a website for her. The name of the website is www.iheart<her 1st name><her last name>.com. When you viewed it, it was a simple page that, from top to bottom, was a big I, a big red heart, a different picture of her, and her name. I told her I made the website for you to show you how I feel...

And when she clicked, her info was logged. So if I told her the website at 9 o' clock in the morning, and she clicked at 9 o' clock in the morning, I got her info. She uses a 7.0 Android, her carrier is T-Mobile, IP address traces to Chicago.

Not only will this website attract the shit out of her, but it will also let me know if she likes me back. Which is if she views the website again, and again.

After some conversations (I'll post later), I decided to wait weeks before messaging her again, depending on when she viewed the site or not.

A week goes by, did she view the site again? No. How long did it take her? 11 days.

As soon as I found out she viewed the site for a 2nd time, which was 11 days later, I immediately changed it. I wiped out the page, and put a

----> Over here

Where the word "here" is clickable to another page on my other site.

So 7 more days later... she viewed the website again for a 3rd time, and saw it changed. She clicked the word "here" and went to the other page. The other page was a bunch of photos of me in a sewer, not just by myself, but also with a guy friend. Sewer photos of climbing up and down tunnels, waterfalls, etc. Most of my photos I was wearing a suit and tie.

A week after that she viewed the website a 4th time, but the website didn't change.

And so, a couple days later, I messaged her. This was a total of 4 weeks now.

But, that is too late. Because now her anger is up. Now she wants revenge. So she wants me to ask her out, just so she could say no.

And I wasn't successful in getting rid of her anger/revenge still.

But then again... the more and more angry she had for me, then the more and more of a good job I did attracting her. Because, the more and more I hurt her. So it's like she in an anger and depression.

 

[Michal]

I decided to halt talking to her for 3 weeks. And when I did that, she seemed bitchy, horny.

Neal,
I think we will need you to give us the transcript of the whole conversation between you and the girl, from the very beginning to the very end, to assess this properly. I believe you said you two mostly texted so... Would it be a problem to provide that?

 

[NealIRC]

Yes right here. This is Facebook messages.

After some conversations (I'll post later), I decided to wait weeks before messaging her again, depending on when she viewed the site or not.

So there was a period where I didn't message her for 3 weeks, and then, 4 weeks.

After the 3 weeks was to show her the website and then wait to see if she'll view it.

So after showing her the website she makes the "I don't need you to make a website for me" and stuff.

And then I go "____, check this out."

And she goes what.

Since she is in a gang, and I'm not, then I of course talk to her about gang-related stuff.

In Chicago, we have this thing called drive-by shootings, which is where gangs shoot at random rival gangs. And of course the Latin Kings do it.

So I offered her a $50 job, I told her to go make a post on your wall, about how you "condemn drive-by shootings." And she immediately refused.

Then... I posted her a picture of 3 women gang bangers in a rival gang.

I said to her, these 2 of 3 women shot and killed 2 random Latin Kings in neighborhood in 1992. 1 lured 1 guy into the bathroom, shot him in the back of the head, and another shot the other guy outside.

And then I waited until she was done reading, and then I said "Now, ____, my question to you is, imagine if you were to lure me to do a drive-by shooting, against a guy you didn't like, or a random [2 6 gang], and you offered me sex, or to strip for me. Do you think I have the balls to do it?"

"Or do you think, I will invaginate myself, in front of you?"

And to my surprise, she answered the question. She said "you wouldn't." And then I go "Right" and then "I have no balls to do a drive-by shooting."

This was how I wanted to end... but 9 minutes later, she popped me a question. She asked "Are you really a virgin?" to which I said "Yes." to which she says "oh."

Now I know... she read my wall. Cuz I made a post on my wall 2 months earlier about being a virgin.

I wasn't gonna let this be the end of a convo, so minutes later, I continued talking about gangs, and drive-by shootings.

It finally ends when I say "These people [that are in gangs] on Facebook, they talk about drive-by shootings, but nobody has the balls to condemn it."

And so... it will be another 4 weeks, before I msg her again, because I wanted to see if she will view the website again, which she did.

 

[lostnumber]

I'm honestly worried about your mental health and physical safety Neal. The examples you post are disturbing. Nowhere is this girl showing any signs of interest in you whatsoever, and you are essentially stalking her.

Spamming a girl creepy messages on Facebook? Making a website with hearts and pictures of someone you've never met? Logging her phone details? This is not normal healthy behavior. You need to get some help Neal, of the professional psychological variety.

I'm worried for your safety. This girl is in a violent gang and you are stalking her. Has it occurred to you that the reason there was another hit on your website is because she was showing your creepy behavior to her brother, or other gang friends?

Most girls would call the police if you acted the way you are describing towards them. This girl might have you shot. If she ever does agree to meet up with you its likely going to end up being six guys with switchblades in an alleyway. Please, for your sake, stop contacting this girl immediately.

I think you have some legitimate health issues that go beyond what anyone on this forum is going to be able to help you with. The fact that you dont seem to realize you have serious problems is the scariest part.

Please get yourself evaluated by a qualified mental health professional. If I'm wrong you have nothing to worry about, and if I'm right you will be in touch with someone who understands what you are going through and can give you the help you need