Covid and Politics Discussion

Chase

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Admin edit: I moved this post and those that followed into this new thread in order to avoid derailing skill's thread - Teevster


Just keep in mind, the COVID-19 death rate in the U.S. is what it is because huge amounts of deaths get counted as COVID deaths if there's any interplay with COVID at all:


That means heart attack deaths, stroke deaths, cancer deaths. If you die with COVID, regardless of comorbidities, you're a COVID death. And because COVID is highly infectious, if you're in the hospital, you're getting COVID.

In other words, if you are dying and go to the hospital, you're getting noted down as a COVID death.

The U.K. is doing something similar by counting all deaths by anyone who's ever contracted COVID as COVID deaths.


A friend went through the CDC website data. Here's the U.S. death rate this year compared to prior years based on what the CDC's recorded:

  • 2017 US deaths: 2.81 million (234,000/month)
  • 2018 US deaths: 2.83 million (235,000/month)
  • 2019 US deaths: 2.86 million (239,000/month)
  • 2020 US deaths through October 1st: 2.13 million (236,000/month)

So... either the rise of COVID coincides with an unprecedented 10% drop in mortality from all other causes... or people are dying the same as ever, except in 10% of cases instead of writing "heart attack", "cancer", "stroke", or "natural causes" they write "COVID-19."

It's like some kind of death hex. Imagine if anyone who ever got a sunburn then died later for any random reason like a fall or old age was recorded as an "ultraviolet crisping death."

Anyway... that aside...

The real question is if the old way of life is actually coming back to the West, or if the "new normal" is here to stay.

I'm starting to bet on "new normal = permanent normal", more and more.

Does it make sense to take this harmless-if-infectious disease, play it up as some frightful pandemic, talk about how we're just going to lock down to "flatten the curve" so hospitals aren't overwhelmed, then when the hospitals are empty ditch the "flatten the curve" talk and instead talk about how we need to stay locked down anyway now because "not one life for the economy", and then after giving all that control over society to the already-powerful (who, by the way, made out like absolute bandits during this thing... billionaire wealth increased by 25% -- $845 billion! -- as the middle class closed its businesses and went on the unemployment line), just turn that off again and go back to how things were before?

This is a common thing in late stage civilizations. Read Joseph Tainter. Here's a good introductory article:


As states lose their grip on power, they become increasingly coercive and authoritarian.

They always need a reason to justify it, of course.

In the case of the relatively low-T and womanly West, the justification is "We're just doing it for your safety. We're only doing it because we care."

Meanwhile Alek's telling me that in France if you get caught outside after curfew (9 PM) three times, you get six months in jail.

Does that sound like the kind of measure a government takes because it is just trying to keep people healthy?

It sure doesn't to me.

It sounds like some THX-1138, 1984, The Giver shenanigans, if you ask me.

So the real question is, assuming the folks in power don't plan on giving up this power over their subject's lives... what happens next, and how do guys who want to be able to still play the field in these places adapt?

Do they just have to move somewhere that isn't doing all this (and there are a bunch of places that aren't doing any of this stuff at all)?

Wish I had answers for guys.

That said -- I will also say I know a guy who's in one of these heavily locked down cities, and he is day gaming, and reports his close rates have gone up a ridiculous amount. This is a guy who's been approaching for 15 years and his rates are always steady, and suddenly he is getting almost double the phone numbers, dates, and lays from the women he approaches.

His theory is most other guys simply aren't approaching at all... so it helps him stand out.

Generally right now what I am telling guys in locked down places to do is "Do day game." Because the dating apps are all flooded and the nightlife these places is closed. But women are still out during the day. You can approach them with masks on. That's not illegal yet -- though they're working on it in the U.K. ("No household mixing") and France ("No interaction with people outside your social bubble").

For guys in the heavily-locked down Western European countries where they are planning to lock it down further and talking about that openly, my best advice, if you can't move to a part of the country that isn't as locked down, or move to a different country that isn't as, is go hard on day game, get yourself a great girl, and make her your girlfriend for the duration of this -- which might be a while.

One more thing I'll say... the level of control these societies are trying to enforce only works so long as they can get a large chunk of the population to go along with it. If that starts to falter, they are simply not going to have the manpower to enforce all these bizarre and anti-social rules and practices they've been pushing so hard.

Chase
 
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Train

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Just keep in mind, the COVID-19 death rate in the U.S. is what it is because huge amounts of deaths get counted as COVID deaths if there's any interplay with COVID at all:


That means heart attack deaths, stroke deaths, cancer deaths. If you die with COVID, regardless of comorbidities, you're a COVID death. And because COVID is highly infectious, if you're in the hospital, you're getting COVID.

In other words, if you are dying and go to the hospital, you're getting noted down as a COVID death.

The U.K. is doing something similar by counting all deaths by anyone who's ever contracted COVID as COVID deaths.


A friend went through the CDC website data. Here's the U.S. death rate this year compared to prior years based on what the CDC's recorded:

  • 2017 US deaths: 2.81 million (234,000/month)
  • 2018 US deaths: 2.83 million (235,000/month)
  • 2019 US deaths: 2.86 million (239,000/month)
  • 2020 US deaths through October 1st: 2.13 million (236,000/month)

So... either the rise of COVID coincides with an unprecedented 10% drop in mortality from all other causes... or people are dying the same as ever, except in 10% of cases instead of writing "heart attack", "cancer", "stroke", or "natural causes" they write "COVID-19."

It's like some kind of death hex. Imagine if anyone who ever got a sunburn then died later for any random reason like a fall or old age was recorded as an "ultraviolet crisping death."

Anyway... that aside...

The real question is if the old way of life is actually coming back to the West, or if the "new normal" is here to stay.

I'm starting to bet on "new normal = permanent normal", more and more.

Does it make sense to take this harmless-if-infectious disease, play it up as some frightful pandemic, talk about how we're just going to lock down to "flatten the curve" so hospitals aren't overwhelmed, then when the hospitals are empty ditch the "flatten the curve" talk and instead talk about how we need to stay locked down anyway now because "not one life for the economy", and then after giving all that control over society to the already-powerful (who, by the way, made out like absolute bandits during this thing... billionaire wealth increased by 25% -- $845 billion! -- as the middle class closed its businesses and went on the unemployment line), just turn that off again and go back to how things were before?

This is a common thing in late stage civilizations. Read Joseph Tainter. Here's a good introductory article:


As states lose their grip on power, they become increasingly coercive and authoritarian.

They always need a reason to justify it, of course.

In the case of the relatively low-T and womanly West, the justification is "We're just doing it for your safety. We're only doing it because we care."

Meanwhile Alek's telling me that in France if you get caught outside after curfew (9 PM) three times, you get six months in jail.

Does that sound like the kind of measure a government takes because it is just trying to keep people healthy?

It sure doesn't to me.

It sounds like some THX-1138, 1984, The Giver shenanigans, if you ask me.

So the real question is, assuming the folks in power don't plan on giving up this power over their subject's lives... what happens next, and how do guys who want to be able to still play the field in these places adapt?

Do they just have to move somewhere that isn't doing all this (and there are a bunch of places that aren't doing any of this stuff at all)?

Wish I had answers for guys.

That said -- I will also say I know a guy who's in one of these heavily locked down cities, and he is day gaming, and reports his close rates have gone up a ridiculous amount. This is a guy who's been approaching for 15 years and his rates are always steady, and suddenly he is getting almost double the phone numbers, dates, and lays from the women he approaches.

His theory is most other guys simply aren't approaching at all... so it helps him stand out.

Generally right now what I am telling guys in locked down places to do is "Do day game." Because the dating apps are all flooded and the nightlife these places is closed. But women are still out during the day. You can approach them with masks on. That's not illegal yet -- though they're working on it in the U.K. ("No household mixing") and France ("No interaction with people outside your social bubble").

For guys in the heavily-locked down Western European countries where they are planning to lock it down further and talking about that openly, my best advice, if you can't move to a part of the country that isn't as locked down, or move to a different country that isn't as, is go hard on day game, get yourself a great girl, and make her your girlfriend for the duration of this -- which might be a while.

One more thing I'll say... the level of control these societies are trying to enforce only works so long as they can get a large chunk of the population to go along with it. If that starts to falter, they are simply not going to have the manpower to enforce all these bizarre and anti-social rules and practices they've been pushing so hard.

Chase
Interesting points here. You can see hints of how safety doesn't seem to be the goal here in the US. There are specific types of gatherings that are condemned but others that are championed and "a good cause". So the rules are somewhat bent.

Even some of the politicians have gotten caught breaking their rules or being above the law. Might be a few select cases, however. And these rule breaks were deemed as accidents or necessary. Like getting one's hair done. Ok...

The pandemic has turned into another vehicle or weaponized between the politicians. See arguments on life vs the economy. It's interesting that an event that had good potential to unite the country just divided it more. Wonder if this is indicative of deep, under-the-surface fracturing of the US.

I think the breaking point for this power-grab is mass exodus of homes, losses of small business, etc. If the people are starving and beaten, I think ideals will fade away until the baser needs are met. Just my thoughts but a look back through history might show what where the critical points in similar situations.
 

DarkKnight

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@Chase one thing I do wonder though is how come each and every country on earth is aboard on this whole corona pandemic thing? We have the west and the east, opposing countries which pursue the same agenda.. This is pretty much the only thing which still makes me doubt if Covid has any true validity
 
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Teevster

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As states lose their grip on power, they become increasingly coercive and authoritarian.

They always need a reason to justify it, of course.

In the case of the relatively low-T and womanly West, the justification is "We're just doing it for your safety. We're only doing it because we care."
I always had a suspicion that there was something behind all of this, without having any clear proofs obviously.

Macron's (the french president, who I believe to be the new Napoleon) last message from wednesday's TV interview (where he announced the new measures) gave me the chills.

The Journalist asked "so, after all these bad news, is there any hope, or any good news in all this? Honestly a good question. The journalist was doing a good job. Most of the interview, the journalist expressed a sad and uncomfortable face.

Macron's response was very worrisome:

"The good news in all this is that we are relearning to live AS A NATION.... for too long we have been too focused on personal liberty, now it is time to move back into living in solidarity"

This is my bad translation. But it is indeed scary. This was live. The written media removed the part in bold in their written resumé.

Yupp, this actually made me very uncomfortable.

But I have hope. The French people is not a people that gets easily controlled. We have a history of chopping of our leaders' heads! Not saying this will happen, or should happen. However, I find the scenario of Macron being pushed out of power as very likely.

You can approach them with masks on. That's not illegal yet
It technically is, at least from Friday night for 6 weeks.


One more thing I'll say... the level of control these societies are trying to enforce only works so long as they can get a large chunk of the population to go along with it. If that starts to falter, they are simply not going to have the manpower to enforce all these bizarre and anti-social rules and practices they've been pushing so hard.
The French Senate is already trying to block the executive. The French Senate is usually constituted of old, soon to be retired, senators. People usually complain about them just sitting there doing nothing - but actually as of RIGHT NOW, they are doing their job.
 
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DarkKnight

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Again.. what still baffles me is how the entire world is on board with this corona madness.. Even countries which feverishly oppose eachother.. I still cannot get around that fact.. It is pretty much the only thing which lends validity to this madness... Until I find a good alternative reason why
 

Teevster

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Again.. what still baffles me is how the entire world is on board with this corona madness.. Even countries which feverishly oppose eachother.. I still cannot get around that fact.. It is pretty much the only thing which lends validity to this madness... Until I find a good alternative reason why
You knowm I was kind of on board with the lockdown policies at first - at least to some extent. This was because this was a NEW virus that we did not know much about. Hence a risk-averse strategy is not all that irrational. Now we know a lot more, and hence I find it odd that we keep on doing all this.
 

Teevster

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Interesting points here. You can see hints of how safety doesn't seem to be the goal here in the US. There are specific types of gatherings that are condemned but others that are championed and "a good cause". So the rules are somewhat bent.
It is the same in all the West. This is the hypocrisy that led me to not taking this seriously anymore.
 
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Mike Silvertree

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People need to listen to this. It is Tom Woods from a few days ago. For those unfamiliar with Tom, he is the leading voice of Libertarianism these days. He has a daily podcast, publishes books, and is paid to speak at Libertarian conferences.


I think there is a huge backlash coming against all the insanity. Tom gives some of the numbers on the collateral damage these lockdowns are doing. The harm to the economy across the world is massive. In the West, we are rich, and likely will survive; in poor countries it is literally true that people are starving to death because of the economic contraction.

The politicians are out of control. In the US we have Governors and Mayors and various "Health Officials" issuing proclamations and orders closing down all sorts of activities and businesses with no legal basis for their actions, nor any science behind any of it. Slowly, courts are overturning much of it, but the damage is massive. At some point, the people will say, "Fuck This!", and the revolt will be on. In San Fransisco, in the late stage of the 1918-19 Pandemic, there arose an anti-mask movement of young men who literally started riots over insane government orders.

I think change is coming soon. A year from now, this will all be a bad dream.
 

Starboy

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Just keep in mind, the COVID-19 death rate in the U.S. is what it is because huge amounts of deaths get counted as COVID deaths if there's any interplay with COVID at all:


That means heart attack deaths, stroke deaths, cancer deaths. If you die with COVID, regardless of comorbidities, you're a COVID death. And because COVID is highly infectious, if you're in the hospital, you're getting COVID.

In other words, if you are dying and go to the hospital, you're getting noted down as a COVID death.

The U.K. is doing something similar by counting all deaths by anyone who's ever contracted COVID as COVID deat


A friend went through the CDC website data. Here's the U.S. death rate this year compared to prior years based on what the CDC's recorded:

  • 2017 US deaths: 2.81 million (234,000/month)
  • 2018 US deaths: 2.83 million (235,000/month)
  • 2019 US deaths: 2.86 million (239,000/month)
  • 2020 US deaths through October 1st: 2.13 million (236,000/month)

So... either the rise of COVID coincides with an unprecedented 10% drop in mortality from all other causes... or people are dying the same as ever, except in 10% of cases instead of writing "heart attack", "cancer", "stroke", or "natural causes" they write "COVID-19."

It's like some kind of death hex. Imagine if anyone who ever got a sunburn then died later for any random reason like a fall or old age was recorded as an "ultraviolet crisping death."

Chase
I disagree with the earlier part of your post. First Deborah Birx is a doctor on donald's trump team of advisors so of course she is going to mitigate or downplay the effect of covid by claiming that "other countries" ( not even the US) are reporting any deaths as Covid deaths. Trump himself didn't take covid seriously when the outbreak first hit so his team has to try and protect him,but I don't want to make too many political references. Your claim that covid deaths are being reported even if they have other comorbidities is a shared belief amongst people who happen to be conservatives,anti maskers and trump supporters who think covid is a joke/plandemic by democrats etc and only effects the elderly and people with preexisting health conditions. The misreporting of Covid deaths due to comorbidities has already been debunked:
People had preexisting conditions that were exacerbated by covid and covid weakened and damaged their immune system, respiratory system, and their body gave up and if they weren't infected with covid they would have been likely to survive. Even a person who OD on drugs as stupid as that sounds likely would not have died unless he was positive for covid 19.

I haven't inspected that data your friend looked at so I won't make any certainties, but without context you can't any concrete conclusions on why less deaths were reported by the CDC in 2020 than in 2019. There are lags in deaths being reported as well.

For the record i'm not an advocate of going into lockdown, staying at home for a year or two so that covid doesn't spread and only come out when a vaccine is ready so we can all hold hands and say kumbaya . I'm just saying there is a lot of misinterpreted, misleading, inconclusive info out there relating to covid.
 

Ree

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@Chase one thing I do wonder though is how come each and every country on earth is aboard on this whole corona pandemic thing? We have the west and the east, opposing countries which pursue the same agenda.. This is pretty much the only thing which still makes me doubt if Covid has any true validity
our neigbor Tanzania said corana was bullshit from the start,they never went into lockdown,no curfew no masks no nothing,prophets of doom talked about how they would die in the millions,but they seem to be doing just fine
 

Ree

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@Ree the measures are way over the top.. I think that is something we can all agree on.
yeah,I dont think covid is dangerous,but I also dont see what goverments have to gain by lockdown,the theory that seems most plausible to me,is what chase said, the govts might have genuinely feared covid initially but now that time has shown it to be harmless the goverments just dont want to backpedal and look like fools
 

Skills

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i don't get this we have to camps:


camp a: don't worry about that shit is nothing it is fake news/exaggerated.

Camp b: is unlikely we are going to die in our age range, but i don't want to get that shit! i rather be safe till a vaccine...


now at the beginning, young people won't get this it is only old and obese people = wrong @POB is the fittest dude in the whole forum (borderline body builder, 10% body fat and got it)

there were couple of younger posters that got it here...


I tell you what if i go clubbing and i get this shit! i hope you guys contribute to my go fund me... if not i am going to sue you all.. if i die i will come from hell and curse you all...

I still believe we are all going to get it at one point or another, is inevitable...
 

Train

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i don't get this we have to camps:


camp a: don't worry about that shit is nothing it is fake news/exaggerated.

Camp b: is unlikely we are going to die in our age range, but i don't want to get that shit! i rather be safe till a vaccine...


now at the beginning, young people won't get this it is only old and obese people = wrong @POB is the fittest dude in the whole forum (borderline body builder, 10% body fat and got it)

there were couple of younger posters that got it here...


I tell you what if i go clubbing and i get this shit! i hope you guys contribute to my go fund me... if not i am going to sue you all.. if i die i will come from hell and curse you all...

I still believe we are all going to get it at one point or another, is inevitable...
I think I had it myself. Felt like a flu but with little mucus and dry cough. I had trouble breathing. Felt asphyxiation. There were times I felt insane chest pressure and had to dose with asthma inhaler and anti-inflammation inhaler. It wasn't pleasant at all. But influenza was definitely worse for me. The latter had me tripping balls.

Your mileage may vary. This was my response. I think it wouldn't hurt to use a mask and all the other recommended stuff. Read the stats from official sites and decide if the risk is worth it. There's some people that are more susceptible to it too.

Fyi, I also felt I got the coronavirus 2 more times after that. About 3 months apart each time. They were less severe. But the chest pains weren't fun. Scary would be if people are constantly getting reinfected. I saw some articles on that.

The chest pains would be less scary if I didn't think it was my heart giving out on me lol.
 

Starboy

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i don't get this we have to camps:


camp a: don't worry about that shit is nothing it is fake news/exaggerated.

Camp b: is unlikely we are going to die in our age range, but i don't want to get that shit! i rather be safe till a vaccine...


now at the beginning, young people won't get this it is only old and obese people = wrong @POB is the fittest dude in the whole forum (borderline body builder, 10% body fat and got it)

there were couple of younger posters that got it here...


I tell you what if i go clubbing and i get this shit! i hope you guys contribute to my go fund me... if not i am going to sue you all.. if i die i will come from hell and curse you all...

I still believe we are all going to get it at one point or another, is inevitable...
It's cuz of the optimism bias. Either corona hasn't fucked them up or anybody they know so they're positive it's not going to be an issue for them without ever actually experiencing it themselves. Or maybe they did experience it and it didn't bother them too much so they assume anyone else like them would be fine too so the possible concerns are overblown.
If there are stories on the news of young,healthy or middle aged people without preexisting conditions who happened to have been severely hospitalized or even died it doesn't matter because the news media has their own "agenda" and wants to promote fear mongering. This virus really doesn't have a consistent pattern.
 

Chase

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Haha... no one was more cautious about COVID-19 than I was.

I did a full 60-day lockdown with 3 months' worth of food and bottled water stocked up just in case it was real.

I spent late January through mid-May poring over everything coming out of Wuhan, then Italy, then various parts of the U.S. and U.K. and Sweden to try to get a handle on exactly how real and how risky this thing was. I was back and forth on it for months, going from "it's just another media pandemic scare, the same as bird flu in 2007, when everyone was certain we'd see bodies piled up in the streets" to "damn, this is getting traction even outside the West. Maybe this thing is a genuine threat?"

If you've ever read what a REAL pandemic is like, you don't want any part of that:


I was telling everyone close to me to stock way up and stay inside. I wasn't certain, but there was enough uncertainty present I figured it wasn't worth the risk.

When I did my coronavirus article, I last-minute switched it up from "I'm increasingly sure at this point this thing does not pose a threat" to "you know what, this thing might still pose a threat", because I really did not want to lead anyone astray in the event I was wrong, before issuing a correction on it about a month later when the situation just got crystal clear:


I had an infection I am 95% certain was coronavirus -- I actually had it before I locked down (my infection was very mild; others around me got the fevers and were knocked out for a few days before the coughs started), but locked down anyway just in case it wasn't and just in case the thing was highly virulent. I can't really afford to be knocked out for weeks on a ventilator; it wasn't a chance I could take, you know? Imagine trying to run GC from a hospital bed on a ventilator at 15% energy levels. Some hospitals I've been in they won't even let you charge your laptop in the room.

So -- I don't think I quite qualify for the "overly optimistic" or the "simply too glib to grasp the grim realities of this thing" categories ;)


@DarkKnight,

Again.. what still baffles me is how the entire world is on board with this corona madness.. Even countries which feverishly oppose eachother.. I still cannot get around that fact.. It is pretty much the only thing which lends validity to this madness... Until I find a good alternative reason why
That was the major thing that got me at first.

But then you look at all the countries not doing it now... Sweden didn't bother at all. Various U.S. states didn't lock down. Some Western European countries only did moderate lockdowns. Japan and Korea basically did not lock down at all, and China only locked down a dozen or so cities, but all that ended back in April. Russia did a light lock down, and Belarus said the whole thing was bunk. As @Ree notes, Tanzania didn't bother... I'm sure there are plenty of other countries that weren't on board, too.


@Ree,

the theory that seems most plausible to me,is what chase said, the govts might have genuinely feared covid initially but now that time has shown it to be harmless the goverments just dont want to backpedal and look like fools
That's part of it, yeah.

It's also now being used for political purposes in much of the West.

All the places that are facing rising populism, also coincidentally have the most pro-lockdown establishments anywhere on Earth.


@Skills,

I tell you what if i go clubbing and i get this shit! i hope you guys contribute to my go fund me... if not i am going to sue you all.. if i die i will come from hell and curse you all...

I still believe we are all going to get it at one point or another, is inevitable...
I definitely suggest you shelter-in-place in that case!

If the coronavirus doesn't get you, a rhinovirus might... or influenza...

Or whatever next year's pandemic will be, if it isn't COVID-20 ;)

Maybe bird flu again? :p

Chase
 

Starboy

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Haha... no one was more cautious about COVID-19 than I was.

I did a full 60-day lockdown with 3 months' worth of food and bottled water stocked up just in case it was real.

I spent late January through mid-May poring over everything coming out of Wuhan, then Italy, then various parts of the U.S. and U.K. and Sweden to try to get a handle on exactly how real and how risky this thing was. I was back and forth on it for months, going from "it's just another media pandemic scare, the same as bird flu in 2007, when everyone was certain we'd see bodies piled up in the streets" to "damn, this is getting traction even outside the West. Maybe this thing is a genuine threat?"

If you've ever read what a REAL pandemic is like, you don't want any part of that:


I was telling everyone close to me to stock way up and stay inside. I wasn't certain, but there was enough uncertainty present I figured it wasn't worth the risk.

When I did my coronavirus article, I last-minute switched it up from "I'm increasingly sure at this point this thing does not pose a threat" to "you know what, this thing might still pose a threat", because I really did not want to lead anyone astray in the event I was wrong, before issuing a correction on it about a month later when the situation just got crystal clear:


I had an infection I am 95% certain was coronavirus -- I actually had it before I locked down (my infection was very mild; others around me got the fevers and were knocked out for a few days before the coughs started), but locked down anyway just in case it wasn't and just in case the thing was highly virulent. I can't really afford to be knocked out for weeks on a ventilator; it wasn't a chance I could take, you know? Imagine trying to run GC from a hospital bed on a ventilator at 15% energy levels. Some hospitals I've been in they won't even let you charge your laptop in the room.

So -- I don't think I quite qualify for the "overly optimistic" or the "simply too glib to grasp the grim realities of this thing" categories ;)

Chase
Touché. Can't even be mad at that
 

MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla

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I get most of my information off of 4chan /pol/

In last year exact same time they were welding people into their houses in China shit was legit insane.

My wager is that Covid couldn’t spread through killing it’s host because the Chinese were running incinerators 24/7. So to increase the spread the virus mutated to allow its hosts to live.

Personally for me I do not want to sit at a bar and have any person coughing otherwise I’ll just leave without paying the bill and won’t think a second thought. Not worth my life.

Lastly stock wise we are seeing all the suddenly the old order collapsing. Companies like General Electric, Boeing, Air Canada, Banks, etc.... Which were considered safe investments by pension funds, *[North American pension funds are about 40% of the worlds entire wealth] are being propped by government stimulus.

I feel it will fall on the millennials to create some of the craziest regulation, *[WW2 Regulations have not served us well] To create a new North American economic success. The only way to do that though is dirt cheap labor and dirt cheap materials. I see a New Deal coming in soon.

Game wise has been the worst summer ever, two gigantic fires, *[Which I think will repeat next year] plus all the job losses. Have made this the worst year I have on record for actual pick up. *[Caveat being though that I’ve been working non stop since this pandemic started]
 
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