Daygame: Probability, Randomness & Large Sample Sizes

[James Cruse]

Brother... Based on the "terrible" numbers you shared, you're telling me you can approach 100 girls in an Australian city, get 50 numbers then sleep with 30+ of those girls from numbers you collected???

No, it's about 15 - did you look at those numbers?

This was 2016-2017 when I focused alot on daygame - and I was getting phone numbers, almost exclusively.

Nice, this is a level I haven't reached yet. Not being sarcastic if you're willing/ get time to share how, I'd learn/value that a lot.

How to go for Same day lays or how not to only get phone numbers (from daygame)?

Maybe I'm being too rigid because I count it. Again I don't see the numbers as purely a reflection of me, more so how many people I need to meet to find someone I vibe with.

I'm counting the girls where I find them unattractive or downright hideous when I actually meet them. Sometimes you don't see they're ugly until abit later (winter clothing). I still count these as an approach - but simlpy have fun, try out some new techniques or sometimes (rarer than I'd like) - use her as a pivot.

I don't count: women I approach that are underage (obviously you leave) or where their boyfriend joins her right there after I approach (happens more than I thought it would).

So I focused on being more assertive with the approach and getting in front of them while also giving them space to eject after the opener. Just like that my approach to number increased to 25-33%.

so what else did you do to improve your numbers beyond this? That seems to be where your numbers are now.

 

[AspiringStoic]

I'm counting the girls where I find them unattractive or downright hideous when I actually meet them. Sometimes you don't see they're ugly until abit later (winter clothing). I still count these as an approach - but simlpy have fun, try out some new techniques or sometimes (rarer than I'd like) - use her as a pivot.

I don't count: women I approach that are underage (obviously you leave) or where their boyfriend joins her right there after I approach (happens more than I thought it would).

Well, there you go. In my stats all that is counted.

 

[Swati]

Do you NEVER go for the same day lay now? I'm always going for the same day lay.

I've never seen a date-lay ratio that bad - brother, what are you doing on dates? You really need to fix that. The other conversions aren't so bad, except the date to lay.

dude why are you so fucking judgmental, he has the courage to share metrics

his going through a breakthrough/sticking point period, here comes you interrupting their flow, punching at people when they're down, disgusting

you starting to come off like those london day gamers. let the man run his course, his going to come back with some gems

 

[DoWhatWorks]

No, it's about 15 - did you look at those numbers?

This was 2016-2017 when I focused alot on daygame - and I was getting phone numbers, almost exclusively.

My bad double checked your post and you're right. You said 100% approaches, 50% approach to number, then ~50% number to date and 75% date to lay gets the ~15 lays.

I know you don't think it but 15% approach to lay is incredible especially if you define approaches like I do which is

*everyone*

Also without trying to be annoying 2017 is 8 years ago, a lot can change. I used to get 10+ lays a year just on tinder easily back then but to do that consistently these days you almost have to use multiple apps. It would be disingenious of me to tell guys now in 2025 just download tinder and rack up 10 lays a year easily, if you don't that's bad numbers and a skill issue.

I'm counting the girls where I find them unattractive or downright hideous when I actually meet them. Sometimes you don't see they're ugly until abit later (winter clothing). I still count these as an approach - but simlpy have fun, try out some new techniques or sometimes (rarer than I'd like) - use her as a pivot.

Yeah for me this girl would get included in "approach" not because I'm attracted but I just see it as part of the game. I don't understand why that wouldn't be included but hey each to their own and personal preference.

How to go for Same day lays or how not to only get phone numbers (from daygame)?

How to go for and get consistent same day daygame lays.

so what else did you do to improve your numbers beyond this? That seems to be where your numbers are now.

Being patient. 20% is what I got since starting but the more recent approaches are closer to 25% so letting time do it's thing.

I've also been more selective with approaches IE avoiding girls in an obvious rush who from experience I know will knee-jerk no or will give a flaky instagram.

Open to other suggestions too.

Well, there you go. In my stats all that is counted.

It's why I ask the underlying questions, when you see major differences in % it's more often due to difference in definitions then skillset

dude why are you so fucking judgmental, he has the courage to share metrics

his going through a breakthrough/sticking point period, here comes you interrupting their flow, punching at people when they're down, disgusting

Appreciate the kind words man. Not taking it personally seen enough cycles here as I expected this was definitions, volume and time of execution difference.

let the man run his course, his going to come back with some gems

It's coming

Leaving my ego at the door is a big reason I've been able to re-invent & consistently get girls for years...

Observing from afar it's how skills has been able to do it too.

 

[James Cruse]

Also without trying to be annoying 2017 is 8 years ago, a lot can change. I used to get 10+ lays a year just on tinder easily back then but to do that consistently these days you almost have to use multiple apps. It would be disingenious of me to tell guys now in 2025 just download tinder and rack up 10 lays a year easily, if you don't that's bad numbers and a skill issue.

I was using a like-for-like comparison - when I did daygame approaching and collected numbers (like you're doing). I can't really compare that to now because, like I said, I go for same day lays on every approach (which is different to your phone number collecting).

My numbers are much better that that now - because I'm taking out the phone > date part of the pipeline, when I go for same day lays.

I don't think Tinder is relevant at all - Tinder was great for everyone when it first came out, due to the novelty. I don't think that has anything to do with daygame back then.

dude why are you so fucking judgmental, he has the courage to share metrics

his going through a breakthrough/sticking point period, here comes you interrupting their flow, punching at people when they're down, disgusting

you starting to come off like those london day gamers. let the man run his course, his going to come back with some gems

Wow, cool your jets dude - you're really triggered. What horse do you have in this race? Is your conversion worse than that and that's why you're so triggered?
On a forum discussing seduction is inherently judemental mate, I'm not sure what delusion you're living under that no-one is assessing, measuring or de-constructing anything (aka judging).

Yeah for me this girl would get included in "approach" not because I'm attracted but I just see it as part of the game. I don't understand why that wouldn't be included but hey each to their own and personal preference.

Those women ARE included in the numbers I told you - not sure why you keep returning to this. I don't count girls who I approach who are underage or where the boyfriend/husband joins her (because I obviously can't seduce them).

How to go for and get consistent same day daygame lays.

It would take alot of posts that I really don't want to write. I'm not a Tribal Elder here either.

I've also been more selective with approaches IE avoiding girls in an obvious rush who from experience I know will knee-jerk no or will give a flaky instagram.

I approach those aswell and they're ok - alot of them don't actually need to rush when you stop them.

The only women I really avoid are those that are so far away when I see them that I have to run to catch up. If they're walking quickly (and not far away) - that's ok.

I think you REALLY need to home in on what you're doing on dates - dates set up from cold approach are usually a complete lay-up for me and the ones that aren't, I could tell it wasn't something I did (most of the time).

 

[James Cruse]

Well, there you go. In my stats all that is counted.

You count your approaches of underages girls and women with their boyfriends and husbands?
Why?

 

[average_daygamer]

You count your approaches of underages girls and women with their boyfriends and husbands?
Why?

I would also count these, as you have done the approach.

 

[D. Gately]

There is without a doubt a degree of 'random' in all this pickup without having to resort to magical thinking. I also think you have to have been doing this for a long time to parse out the difference btw 'she showed up in a bad mood,' vs 'I messed up the chance to close a hot girl.'
There's never going to be a logical reason for every girl who decides to sleep with you or not. Even if you have a very high lay rate that doesn't mean you screwed up somehow, perhaps less so in fact.
Part of our basic humanity is building 'stories' in our minds off small sample sizes. As a species we are hard-wired not to think of things as just random.

I would say I'm at ~50% of number/IG-to-date, and 50-60% date-to-close and on the higher end more recently as opposed to 8 years ago.
For sure, some of those I definitely screwed up the convo, escalation, kino but other failures could simply be her deciding not to cheat on her boyfriend, or feeling insecure about sex because she's on her period, or deciding I'm just not the guy she wants to be with -- she's looking for Serious Boyfriend Material.

Measuring your stats is necessary for some guys, but can also be used to mislead yourself even accidentally. Your lay rates may be great for 7-8s but poor for 9+. I think that makes a difference. Same for 'party girls' you meet at a nightclub vs shy girls you meet at lunchtime. It'd be stunning if your rates were identical in those situations imho.

 

[AspiringStoic]

You count your approaches of underages girls and women with their boyfriends and husbands?
Why?

Because I dont care enough to make those distinctions and worry about what to exclude and what to count etc.

So my simple rule is if I found her attractive and I made an attempt to start a conversation with her its an approach.

And I have no desire to make these kind of distinctions in order to make my stats look better. This is due to the reasons I will list below:

I know this is a seduction forum and that is the main focus. I am aware that some people hate seduction being mixed with self improvement stuff. But having said that, I would just like to mention this here, because I have had this back and forth with many guys especially when it comes to stats and sniper game and being more selective with approaching.


The argument always starts with statistics and ratios and then moves on to well, in order to improve ratios and stats I am going to do "more targeted approaches". I am going to ping, I am going to force IOIs, only approach girls who do this or that.


That is perfectly understandable and anyone who wants to do that and get more efficient that way can definitely go down that road.


But it has never been a goal of mine to


"cold approach as LITTLE as possible and gets dates and lays".


Because cold approaching has developed in me qualities that sleeping with girls could never develop.

I started with online and had 20+lays before I did my first ever cold approach. After I started cold approach there have been huge changes in my personality that never came about by just sleeping with and dating girls.

After starting cold approach:

I am no longer a slave to girls' reactions or opinions of me. A girl rejecting me or thinking badly of me does not make me question my worth like it used to.

Throwing myself into discomfort and uncertainty which happens with every cold approach you do, I have way more confidence to try new things, take the lead at work, be willing to voice unpopular opinions, stand up for my opinions even if I know I will be in the minority and will be challenged and opposed.

It has made me way more authentic because I give way less of a fuck about what other people think of me. I have stopped doing many activities which I realized I used to do just to appear cool or in the hope that I might meet a girl.

I am not constantly worried about whether what I am wearing is cool or fashionable etc. I wear shit that I like and find cool regardless of what the current trend is.

These are just a few, I can list dozens more of the positive changes that cold approach has brought me.

I know guys who get laid more than me through online and social circle and they are terrified as fuck to get even one blatant rejection from a girl.

Some of these guys are worried about the smallest of things like not having had a haircut, having a pimple pop up, worried about whether their clothes are good enough, whether they should buy a new watch, their beard or hair greying a bit or thinning a bit.

And I am like well, thats not how I want to be regardless of how many girls I seduce per year.

I have cold approached hot girls in everything from flip flops and old shorts to sweat pants, gym track suits, to jeans to whatever else. You can put me in any clothing and I will still cold approach whereas I see guys who need to be dressed in x or y way before even appearing in the eye line of a girl.

So to me cold approach is more than just getting dates and sex though of course I do want those things.

But I am no sex addict, if I have sex 2-3 times a week, I am easily satisfied. But what I want to do more of and what I want to do everyday is cold approach.

I am looking to do more approaches not less, group sets, more bolder ones etc because that is going to bring changes in my personality and my psyche that I value more than just dates and sex which are great momentary pleasures but dont change you on such a deep level.

 

[D. Gately]

To be fair, I think 'being more selective' and 'being more efficient' are not quite the same thing, although they often get conflated on here.

Being very selective about the age/hotness quotient/femininity of the young women I choose has helped me be more efficient, but that wasn't the goal. I'd gladly have my stats drop to get more 9-9.5s in my life.

 

[DoWhatWorks]

I was using a like-for-like comparison - when I did daygame approaching and collected numbers (like you're doing)

If you think something you did 8 years ago is as valid as now when you've not done it then I have no more questions lol

because, like I said, I go for same day lays on every approach (which is different to your phone number collecting).

This is where I think you're either disingenuous or deflecting because you coach and have a reputation to keep.

You keep saying "those numbers are bad" without giving up to date numbers of what you're doing now IE last 12 months.

You haven't even said what "good" numbers are...

The last 4 girls where I got their number from daygame (because I had to be elsewhere) I pulled 3 in 4. The one I didn't pull was a serious attainability issue for her - I think she thought I was way out of her league. The rest I slept with on date 1 (one was kind of a second date-ish).

See how people's numbers start to collapse under scrutiny? You've gone from I do 75% same-day daygame lays to

Last 4 girls (which is low volume btw)

1 - autorejected (happens to the best of us)
1 - "second date-ish" whatever the fuck that means
2 - 1st date lay

Which matches what I expect solid numbers but low volume... Which I said here

If you’re maintaining this at 100 approaches and not 10 here or there then all power to you.

But then when we try and discuss "volume" you conveniently "don't count" certain approaches, if I did that my numbers would look 2x as good. I've asked multiple times how many girls you approached in last 12 months and can't get a straight answer.

I don't count girls who I approach who are underage or where the boyfriend/husband joins her

I include them, keeping it simple if I interact with a girl I found worth approaching that's an approach...

Not here to convince otherwise, we can't have a discussion on "good" or "bad" numbers because the way we count is different.

I think you REALLY need to home in on what you're doing on dates - dates set up from cold approach are usually a complete lay-up for me

All four of them this year right?


I'm not replying again to this thread.

It's a shame when I post in good faith to exchange notes and improve but instead get met with ego keyboard jockeying.