ElderPrice: From 30 y/o virgin to ?

Mr.Rob

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Matter of fact, this happened the other night on a date. We got coffee. Talked for an hour. I said let's walk around across the street (driving distance). She said yes. We walk to the parking lot. I said let's take one car (translation: get in the car with me). She said no, very clearly. Surely you're not saying I stand there for 5 minutes pleading with her?
What was the plan for after coffee that you were leading her with? She followed your lead to the car so that's a good start. But you didn't make it clear what the plan you proposed was (i.e. go back to your place to play ping pong, go to another cool bar down the street, etc) but maybe you just didn't write it here? Ideally you have her agree to the plan not agree to get in the car so its not

"Here we are at my car. Would you like to come in with me?"
"No."
"Come on. Let's chill."
"No."
"It's cold out (or whatever)."
"No. I'm not getting in the car with you."

Instead its:

"here come, lets steal the night away and have that ping pong contest we talked about. Im totally gonna kick your butt!"
"No I can't its late"
"No my darling the night is yet still young, it will only take 20 minutes to decide the grand champion and as soon as one of us is victorious we'll celebrate with a drink of my famous xyz cocktail and you can leave to get all the bedrest you need to crunch your accounting #'s tomorrow"
"hmm, idk I need all 8 hours of sleep to be productive and..
"AND! I personally ensure that you won't miss a wink (smiling) Come lets continue having a bit more fun. You want to ride with me or follow me in your car?"

Not a perfect example but much improved.

Regarding: "You know at the end of the day the decisive factor of a woman going home with you boils down to how you make her feel. Your impact on her emotions."

Very true. Then these women don't feel anything about me. And who knows what they felt going into the date. My hunch is barely anything. Maybe like "Meh he's worth an hour. Maybe he'll surprise me." In my opinion, I have zero edge and zero bad boy-ness. I think this is a huge factor. Not really sure how to change that besides covering myself with tattoos.
Yeah you can think of your fundamentals, conversation, and game as things that all contribute to impacting her emotions. So if your continually getting flat responses then your being flat or feeling flat yourself. Remember she feels what you feel, so if you feel flat she is to. If you feel alive passionate and sexual then she will to via state transfer.

That could be an element.

You don't have to be the baddest edgy bad boy to get girls. (tho it help!) You can be a nice guy that radiates strength through holding good eye contact, passing her tests, and touching her and do just fine.

"You know based on the questions you ask its almost like you have no clue what the process should even look like."

Maybe? Meet for coffee/drinks -> Let her talk -> maybe go to 2nd venue -> isolate somewhere, preferably at someone's place -> go for sex. I've read all the articles about it. I sound confused because I am.
I know you know what the process looks like on paper. What I mean is you don't know what a good execution looks like in action. OR better yet what it should FEEL like.

That's why I was recommending you grab a copy of Super Seducer because the game does a great job of showing exactly what the seduction process should look/feel like from "hello" to asking her to go home with you. Richard (the guy who made the game) did a really good job of capturing the full seduction process on video and all the acting is very realistic and convincing in it. Plus Richard has nice guy game himself and isn't what you'd call edgy... Though he has edge as a nice guy.

Having a visual model to emulate can be very powerful for learning.

Again, I just can't reconcile what you guys are recommending vs. what my eyes are seeing. My eyes see girls that firmly don't want to follow my lead and clearly, emphatically say no when I try to move for isolation.
Lastly there could be a bit of incongruency in the type of guy they think you'll be vs the type of guy you come off as. Girls can sense this stuff.

What I mean is a guy who confidently approaches a girl you would imagine is pretty experienced with girls but in your case your not experienced and girls might be feeling the disconnect there.

I experienced this my first year into seduction clearly as I only had 1 sexual experience up to that point.

The solution of course is two fold A) get more experience with women and B) fake it by emulating how successful guys act/behave/vibe.

That was a key thing for me is acting not like myself but like the role models I chose. Again at the end of the day your emulating the role models vibe you choose.

Hope we aren't giving you too much info and confusing you but those are the first thoughts that came to mind for me.
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Thanks Rob!

What was the plan for after coffee that you were leading her with?
The plan was to drive across the street to an area where we could walk around. We arrived at the coffee place separately. She agreed to go walking around. As we got to the parking lot, she started hesitating. "ehh maybe we shouldn't, it's getting late..." (it was 9pm). I persisted here and she agreed. It was then I offered to take 1 car instead of both and she gave a crystal clear "No." So we drove separately across the street.

"hmm, idk I need all 8 hours of sleep to be productive and..
"AND! I personally ensure that you won't miss a wink (smiling) Come lets continue having a bit more fun. You want to ride with me or follow me in your car?"
LOL I know exactly what you mean, and no, I wasn't sharing my actual phrasing. You may have missed the point I was getting at and that is, the girl wasn't saying stuff like "I don't know." She wasn't on the fence. She was crystal clear declining to get in the car (isolate) with me no matter what I said. She agreed to the plan of driving across the street (separately) to go walking around for a bit, but she crystal clear was not going to agree to get in one car (isolate) with me.

Regarding fundamentals, yeah I figure that's the issue. But I've never understood how to test this. I've read the article and THINK I'm executing the fundamentals to the best of my knowledge, but how do I know? How do I know if my voice is on point or if it's garbage and can be 10x better? How do I know what my vibe is? How do I know if I'm making weird face twitches or something? Every person I ask for feedback makes faces like 'are you serious? you're great. you're cool. you're doing absolutely nothing wrong. etc.'

Regarding Super Seducer, getting a copy may be a good idea. I'm still confident my #1 issue is some fundamental and is rearing itself wayyyy upstream, but yeah, Super Seducer certainly won't hurt, and I'm sure will indeed help when it comes to seeing how dates/interactions should go.
 

Seppuku

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Hey guys,

Mr Rob made very good points to which I agree. And here:

Lastly there could be a bit of incongruency in the type of guy they think you'll be vs the type of guy you come off as. Girls can sense this stuff.

What I mean is a guy who confidently approaches a girl you would imagine is pretty experienced with girls but in your case your not experienced and girls might be feeling the disconnect there.
I think Mr Rob is up to something.

The question I want to ask you (ElderPrice): during the date, are you the Nice Guy?

The other question I am wondering: do you have any kind of sexual tension at all? I suspect not.

A big sexual tension killer is when you are an open book to her. I did recommend you earlier not to be too gamey - because in the case you're not doing it right, it may be the thing firing back big time. However if there is one little tweak you can try, it is this one: you keep your body language under tight control, so as to keep her guessing as to whether you like her or not. The main things you want to control:
  • Are you too high energy? That communicates your excitement. You should probably tune it down. (And we already discussed that before).
  • Are you smiling too much? That kills sexual tension and make you come across as Nice Guy. You should probably keep your smile to only when she did / said something to deserve it - and otherwise try staying neutral.
  • Are you leaning forward too much? Or pointing your body towards her? You should compensate that by sometimes also leaning back or turning slightly away.
  • Also look in the early Chase articles what he describes as the "slow smile". This is the one single thing I adopted from all Chase's "fundamentals" articles, which helped me the most. It's a hint of a smile, lips slightly opened, which says "I know more than you might think".
In my experience, I never encountered much real resistance when attempting to isolate. I have got resistance with setting up a date, or at time of sexual escalation. But not with getting her to following me home (except a little token resistance once in a while). It would be interesting to hear Mr Rob's experience with regard to this.

This is how this would go for me:
- We talk all throughout the date
- Like any girl I go on a date with, she's cold, not touchy, not flirty
- At some point, whether before we walk to the car or right as we walk up to the car, I have to ask or say to get in the car.
- She's going to say no
When you ask her opinion, i.e. "would you like to come with me?" you expose yourself to "No". Any kind of "No" is negative compliance. It sets a precedent for getting more and more Nos. So on a critical thing like pulling home, it is important you avoid to put yourself in a situation to get a No.

So just don't ask.

Here is one way to do that - the smooth authority.

You are in the venue, the 60 / 90 minutes have already passed. You ask for the check and proceed to settle the bill. "Come on, let's go some other place. " (not asking her). You walk out of the venue with her. Reach your car. You open the door of the passenger seat.

Good case, she just follow your lead and get in the car. Bad case, she asks:
- "Where are we going?"
- Let's go [to my home] and listen some cool jazz music. Get in! (Note: sometimes I don't tell her it's in my home right away. Girls read between the lines anyway. Your choice.).
- I can't because [...]
- It's too early to go back, and it is cold inside. Let's go!
- But I have to be home early because tomorrow [...]
- It's OK, we will only stay five minutes then I drive you back. Now get in!
Etc... Read about what Chase calls "the Hard Push".

Another technique is to assume the sale has already been done:

(You are still in the venue. It's time to move on)
- Next, I'm taking you to listen some cool jazz music. Lets' go.
Here you wrapped your invitation with an immediate "Let's go" which didn't give her time to object. You just assumed the sale was concluded and proceeded. And now if she follows you, she has implicitly accepted your frame. Sale done!

Obviously, if you attempt to pull late in the evening, you are calling some troubles on yourself. That's why it is best to carefully plan your date so that you have still plenty of time when the date is ended.

Something like this:
"Here we are at my car. Would you like to come in with me?"
"No."
"Come on. Let's chill."
"No."
"It's cold out (or whatever)."
"No. I'm not getting in the car with you."
......
"K bye."
is serious negative compliance. You have to be smart enough to stay away from this. Once the "No" start flying, you will get more of them. The best way is to avoid asking a question calling for a No.

I really hope we will manage to debug you some time!
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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The question I want to ask you (ElderPrice): during the date, are you the Nice Guy?
To the best of my knowledge, no. If you can elaborate with a more specific definition, or examples, then I can be clear with my answer. But otherwise, no. On 90% of my dates, if there's anything to pay for, I asked if she wouldn't mind splitting. Occasionally I've paid for coffee or tea since that's only like $3, and occasionally I asked the girl to pay for my coffee. Lately I've been trying to push myself more to ask the girl to pay for me, if for no other reason that makes the date free for me :)

During the conversation, I try to be as push/pull as possible. Er, maybe to be fully accurate and honest, maybe I should say I try to make sure I 'push.' I figure based on the previous feedback I've received here and one female friend suggesting that I could stand to be more challenging, my face might be conveying all the "pulling" itself, if that makes sense. Anyway, I also try to communicate my opinions as strongly as possible and not supplicate to hers. IE. If she says things like "I like classical music" and "I like chinese food" and "I like this town," I do NOT say "Oooo me too!" with some giddy look on my face and agree with everything she says. I'll agree if it's something I legitimately agree with, but otherwise I'd say some something like this, playfully, "Classical music? Boring! Rock is where it's at!" or "Oh you like chinese food? Pizza is where it's at. If we can't order pizza while binge watching Netflix, I don't know if this is going to work out..." Again, said playfully.

The other question I am wondering: do you have any kind of sexual tension at all? I suspect not.
I don't think so. There have been a few rare occasions where I've been with a girl who is unquestionably into me. I don't think any was an actual date... just other interactions here and there. And in those cases, there was clearly sexual tension. Clearly flirting both ways, clearly sexual conversation topics both ways, and reciprocated touch.

The girls I've been on dates with again aren't like this. They're not having fun. They're probably nervous. They just don't participate in the dance.

A big sexual tension killer is when you are an open book to her. I did recommend you earlier not to be too gamey - because in the case you're not doing it right, it may be the thing firing back big time.
I can assure you, for sure, I am not overgaming. I can't consciously remember the 10,000 things that I can do better during an interaction or date and think on the spot how to act to fix them. So 95%+ of what I do on a date is all instinct. I look at her, try to read how she's responding, and try to legitimately get to know her. I also throw in some flirting in there and sex topics to try and get the ball rolling in a sexual direction. I do this with the simple plan of meet -> talk for no more than an hour -> bounce to another venue and/or try to isolate -> then if the gods are on my side, make it back to her place.

Zero canned lines, zero canned gambits, nothing like that. As a matter of fact, that's why for a while in my journal I was actually reading up on MM because I felt like I was lacking way too much in game material!

However if there is one little tweak you can try, it is this one: you keep your body language under tight control, so as to keep her guessing as to whether you like her or not. The main things you want to control:
  • Are you too high energy? That communicates your excitement. You should probably tune it down. (And we already discussed that before).
  • Are you smiling too much? That kills sexual tension and make you come across as Nice Guy. You should probably keep your smile to only when she did / said something to deserve it - and otherwise try staying neutral.
  • Are you leaning forward too much? Or pointing your body towards her? You should compensate that by sometimes also leaning back or turning slightly away.
  • Also look in the early Chase articles what he describes as the "slow smile". This is the one single thing I adopted from all Chase's "fundamentals" articles, which helped me the most. It's a hint of a smile, lips slightly opened, which says "I know more than you might think".
I have already been consciously trying to monitor this, as you've suggested it a LONG time ago. It's always been top of mind.

On this previous date from last week, I did much better than in the past. I was leaned back the whole time, and only leaned in a couple times after she did (following the idea of the reward/punish concept. IE my leaning in was rewarding her for her leaning in). I'd laugh when she legitimately made me laugh, and look bored when she was on a boring conversation topic.

Regarding smiling, I bet if an expert like you saw me in person, you'd say I'm smiling too much. But it's not a Mr. Nice Guy smile. That's my natural personality. I looove laughing and cracking jokes and keeping a fun, positive mood to everyone that's around me. I take very few situations seriously. I'm always smiling and laughing and finding humor in things. Now, maybe my natural smile looks Nice and fully unsexy. Who knows. Guess it's possible.

EDIT: Whoops. Hit reply before addressing your last point. Regarding your point of phrasing, you're correct, I can definitely do better in that department. If you're saying phrasing may be the issue sinking me -- and I don't think you are -- then I would disagree to an extent. I've seen a number of Chase articles where he phrases these transition points as questions. "What say you and me grab some ice cream?" "Friday. 8pm. Does that work with your schedule?" "Let's say we check out the place next door. That work for you?" Stuff like that. I imagine even with poor phrasing, you would still do fine if your other elements of game were in good shape. Correct me if I'm wrong. But again, I can tell you for sure I'm not great with phrasing.

Seppuku, you the man.
 
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ThePhoenix

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3. Similarly, how is a date supposed to compete with tinder? If a beautiful girl wants sex, why would she not just hop on tinder, swipe for 5 minutes, then have her plans for the night?
- Isnʼt the date itself slotting you at least partially into the boyfriend category right off the bat?
Not at all!

Women are very much attracted to men who have balls. It takes a lot of balls to, instead of swipe on a phone screen, slide up beside a girl in a grocery store or whatever and start hitting on her. Iʼve done it dozens of times over the last couple years, and every time even now, itʼs still terrifying. The biggest reason my game is still way behind the eightball is because of just how many times I bitch out at the last moment instead of doing something that I have already seen will in some cases get me laid.

The upside to this is that, if you even so much as approach a girl in day game, by default you have balls. By contrast, even the hottest guy on her Tinder by default has no balls. He had to hide behind a computer to try to get laid. (No offense to Seppuku — heʼs mainly using on‑line because of local demographics, and plus he has tweaked his game to more than make up for the apparent initial lack of balls.)

My first real lay was a casual fuck from the first date, with a girl that apparently already had another guy in the picture. I picked her up from approaching her in a big box store where she was shopping for groceries with her mom. When she was laid back on my couch, she for some reason decided to show me her Tinder profile. What does that tell us? At least that night, I obviously outfucked all those cowardly chumps on Tinder!!

(Speaking of another guy in the picture, I strongly suggest you donʼt screen your prospects for being single. Certainly donʼt ask them! Science plus my limited experience suggests that single girls may actually be harder to seduce quickly. And asking poses a serious risk of boyfriend-slotting yourself; I never ask.)


BUT I would say the majority of them do not know beforehand. Most of the time I would say her wanting sex is not a conscious process, more something growing in the background without them being aware — at first. They really become aware they desire it when they turn on during the final escalation.
Totally second this. I was quite taken aback by how sudden it was. Itʼs like, once youʼve persisted in escalating enough, a switch just flips in her head and she totally wants to have sex, whereas a moment before she was just more or less tolerating being touched, basically not even reciprocating. You can really see the moment she consciously made the decision to have sex, and itʼs very late in the process.


As for your overall situation. Even with my low level of experience (God, I need to work on my approach volume, lol), I can tell you with confidence that there should be some girls, even moderately attractive ones who arenʼt fat, where their responses will be:

meet -> passive compliance -> passive compliance -> passive compliance -> passive compliance -> sure, letʼs have sex

And thatʼs with not really doing anything in particular game‑wise other than have some decent fashion, meet her in day game (implicit balls), at each step try to move things in a direction leading to sex, donʼt buy her anything, get her to do the talking, donʼt give in to little shit tests, try to pull on date one, use a good excuse to get her to your home (hers I think is definitely harder so you should aim for yours even if the situation at home is not perfect), and be relaxed and chill.

Well, Iʼm sure not all women are that easy, but a normal expectation is that some will be, and Iʼm finding it hard to understand that you never get a girl this easy even in 60 dates, when I found one this easy after only four dates! And I am not anywhere skilled like Seppuku or Mr. Rob are. And Iʼm not tall, muscular, or super-attractive either; I canʼt even seem to get better than 5/10 on Photofeeler, lol. Iʼm not socially a natural either; Iʼm shy and introverted. Shit, Iʼm even living in a feminazi capital which outsiders have said is terrible for game and that the women are “bitchy and entitled”. And I canʼt even drive. So much is going against me, yet still, try enough girls and one is willing to jump into bed with me.

That screams out to me that there must be something very specific that youʼre doing that turns the girls off. Or maybe some limiting belief, neediness, or mood problem. Or limiting yourself to girls that are hot instead of just cute. Trust me, getting sex should not be this hard!

I think you should read the report of my first lay, here, if you havenʼt already. Not because itʼs a model lay — itʼs not by any means. My fundamentals were less than stellar, I lacked most of the tactical elements of game, and I was far too slow in escalating. However, an important lesson is that I slept with the girl in spite of all that. Part of that is because, while in that sense it was not a model lay, in another sense, it was, because while it was terrible tactically, it was excellent strategically. It demonstrates how following the basic process and taking a leap of faith is the most critical factor.

At key turning points, a good understanding of the feminine mind helped me make correct decisions, and I explain those decisions. I wasnʼt all that smooth, but I was smooth at the points where it mattered most.

I think it would also help you to see just how little this girl was outwardly expressing interest in sex on the date. No arm touching. No doe eyes. Nothing. None of that stuff youʼve repeatedly lamented never seeing. Personally, in retrospect, I almost think she only fucked me because she was bored. But youʼll get girls like that!

Itʼs also probably the most detailed report on GC — I had to edit extensively just to keep within the boardʼs size limit! So I hope you can get something out of it.
 

Científico

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Want to just chime in here and second what ThePhoenix said in the first half of his post above. I am finding cold approach to be the single most effective way to improve my confidence and interactions with women - so many men don't do it, and I love the shocked/intrigued reactions women give when you approach and open direct. It's getting right what you want and there are unlimited opportunities in day to day life.

Even though I have never gotten laid from a pure daygame lead, I know for a fact that it can lead to magical moments, like the time a colombian tourist was passionately kissing me within 60 minutes of meeting her, or the times I've had drinks with/kissed attractive women at airports just because I bothered to open them in the terminal, or the time I snatched a girl from the sidewalk and within 5 minutes had her going to happy hour with me.

I really think the key is volume and consistency. Despite how much I believe in it, the anti-approach weasel still talks me out of it fairly often when I am not out for the explicit reason of approaching women. Today I broke that by approaching a cutie in the hospital cafeteria where I was working today, while waiting for my colleague. Setting these small goals, and meeting them, goes a long way.
 

ElderPrice

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12/22/19 Slow progress

I tried hiring a coach for a month to see how that would go. I'd say it was definitely helpful. Here are some of the realizations I/we made:
- The approaches I've been making, especially in the last 6 months or so, were lacking intent. That explains why the percentage of girls responding to my texts went up, but why they'd all go silent upon trying to schedule a date.
- Therefore, for the past few weeks I've done more direct day game than I have in all the rest of my journey combined.
- The emphasis of course is on making it clear with the first line why I'm approaching.
- Another emphasis of this approach style is on boosting my overall aggressiveness.
- All indications suggest my physical appearance and personality is not even close to being a problem for me.

I'd say at this point I've got 10-15 of these new approaches in the books, and unfortunately so far this hasn't seemed to yield anything or made a difference. Meaning, girls seem to be as largely uninterested as they were in all previous approaches.

- A point the coach really wanted to hammer home is that I make sure I don't confuse reactions with results.

This is because I was communicating how I'm just in a funk where it feels like every girl feels like pulling teeth or that they require begging or pleading to get anywhere with. And that meeting a girl that would put some effort in or chase just a little would be so refreshing. I was communicating how approaching just isn't fun when seemingly every girl of even the slightest attractiveness requires so much persistence at every step of the process.

But his point was to not let their reactions affect me. Focus on compliance. If their reactions are lame but they stick around and eventually follow, then try to not worry about it. You're fine. Everything is working. But if they still don't comply, alright, then at least now we've got something more specific to work on.

I'm also interpreting these suggestions to suggest that I should be generally more aggressive in a set. Along the spirit of the "Don't Let Her Leave" article. And ESPECIALLY for girls that I really, really, like.

A great example of making this mistake was last night. Met one of those very rare beauties. Just exactly my type physically. I direct approached, she's pretty warm, then we dance and chat for a bit. She's not entirely interested or hooked, but close. Because my previous experience with scenarios like this is girls have gotten creeped out if I linger around after dancing with them, my instinct was to break circle and re-engage later. Big mistake as she didn't chase me, other guys came in to shoot their shot, and that was that. In retrospect, I think I should have been more aggressive to be more congruent with how rarely beautiful I thought she was. I should have asked her to move around the venue with me. I should have asked her to join me outside for some food. I should have just gone to town on compliance until we either were alone together or until she outright walked away from me.

So I'm going to keep my focus on being aggressive, and to measure success by compliance, and to not get phased so much when they give shit reactions.
 

Mr.Rob

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I tried hiring a coach for a month to see how that would go. I'd say it was definitely helpful. Here are some of the realizations I/we made:
Good to hear. Glad its helped shed some light. Curious if you don't mind sharing, who did you choose to work with? (you can DM me if you prefer not to mention... I handle all the coaching stuff for GC so if you want any input on who might be the best fit coachwise for you happy to give my thoughts)

Keep up the persistence man. Play the long game, and as long as your making improvements then its inevitable you'll eventually reach your goal.

Cheers,
 

ElderPrice

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12/29/19 Cool updates compared to the typical garbage I post here :p

First, I signed a new lease with a roommate so in about two months I'll finally be out of my parent's place. I'm really really really really really looking forward to this. I'm pretty convinced I could have bedded some women this year if I only had a place to pull them to.

Second, I met a girl this weekend where for the first time in a very long time everything just worked. It was wonderful. We both enjoyed our company and happily moved things along with no resistance. Soooooo refreshing!! Now here's the part where I'm sure yall will roast me - and deservedly so - despite being an 'easy lay' opportunity, I consciously decided not to go all the way.

It was a case of (as usual) horrendous logistics. We were both at a venue, the venue being about 45 minutes from my place. The girl is visiting from out of town so her place has three other friends/family/whoever living there and her spot is the couch. About 15 minutes from the venue. So I'm driving her home because she was exactly on my way, and because she was delightful company and seemingly down for anything, I suggest taking a more scenic route to her place. So we pull into a park parking lot and hop into the back seat. We had a great time cuddling for about two hours. It was awesome. Peaceful, cozy, no pressure. Just pure comfort.

Of course when we started, I started trying to figure out the roadmap to escalate to sex. I made some joke about it and she basically said 'if you want to, I'm totally down!' At that instant, I heard all of yalls voices in my head screaming at me bloody murder to do it. No matter what. Just do it. Take it out. Even if you just stab it in her once. DO ITTTTTTTTT!!!!1111

But after weighing all the factors, I chose not to. Here were the factors:
- Horrendous logistics, so it either happened in the back seat of my car or bust. Or maybe a hotel.
- Elder Jr just doesn't work right, so I wouldn't even physically be able to do a minute of sex and call it a night.
- And with Elder Jr's uncooperative behavior, there was a good chance he would make a mess all over my clothes or in my car (that family and friends frequently ride in)
- I was pretty tired at 2am when we left the venue, and my brain was shutting down at 4am when we called it a night. I just didn't have the energy or alertness to keep going, if I wanted to.
- I didn't have condoms on me. Side note: I swear condoms are a crystal clear bad luck charm for me. There's no better guarantee that I will have a poor night than carrying some condoms in my pocket! So what happens when I don't have condoms on me? I meet girls that are very into me!

So when weighing everything, I just decided fuck this. That's way too much shit to have to deal with, and the cuddling felt amazing so we'll just stick to that, enjoy that, then if she's down moving forward we can arrange for a hotel another night, where it's not late and we're not sleepy and we'll have the time and energy for multiple rounds. And if she's not down, that's okay. I enjoyed this night. I'll meet other girls. No biggie.
 

Sub-Zero

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12/29/19 Cool updates compared to the typical garbage I post here :p

First, I signed a new lease with a roommate so in about two months I'll finally be out of my parent's place. I'm really really really really really looking forward to this. I'm pretty convinced I could have bedded some women this year if I only had a place to pull them to.

Second, I met a girl this weekend where for the first time in a very long time everything just worked. It was wonderful. We both enjoyed our company and happily moved things along with no resistance. Soooooo refreshing!! Now here's the part where I'm sure yall will roast me - and deservedly so - despite being an 'easy lay' opportunity, I consciously decided not to go all the way.

It was a case of (as usual) horrendous logistics. We were both at a venue, the venue being about 45 minutes from my place. The girl is visiting from out of town so her place has three other friends/family/whoever living there and her spot is the couch. About 15 minutes from the venue. So I'm driving her home because she was exactly on my way, and because she was delightful company and seemingly down for anything, I suggest taking a more scenic route to her place. So we pull into a park parking lot and hop into the back seat. We had a great time cuddling for about two hours. It was awesome. Peaceful, cozy, no pressure. Just pure comfort.

Of course when we started, I started trying to figure out the roadmap to escalate to sex. I made some joke about it and she basically said 'if you want to, I'm totally down!' At that instant, I heard all of yalls voices in my head screaming at me bloody murder to do it. No matter what. Just do it. Take it out. Even if you just stab it in her once. DO ITTTTTTTTT!!!!1111

But after weighing all the factors, I chose not to. Here were the factors:
- Horrendous logistics, so it either happened in the back seat of my car or bust. Or maybe a hotel.
- Elder Jr just doesn't work right, so I wouldn't even physically be able to do a minute of sex and call it a night.
- And with Elder Jr's uncooperative behavior, there was a good chance he would make a mess all over my clothes or in my car (that family and friends frequently ride in)
- I was pretty tired at 2am when we left the venue, and my brain was shutting down at 4am when we called it a night. I just didn't have the energy or alertness to keep going, if I wanted to.
- I didn't have condoms on me. Side note: I swear condoms are a crystal clear bad luck charm for me. There's no better guarantee that I will have a poor night than carrying some condoms in my pocket! So what happens when I don't have condoms on me? I meet girls that are very into me!

So when weighing everything, I just decided fuck this. That's way too much shit to have to deal with, and the cuddling felt amazing so we'll just stick to that, enjoy that, then if she's down moving forward we can arrange for a hotel another night, where it's not late and we're not sleepy and we'll have the time and energy for multiple rounds. And if she's not down, that's okay. I enjoyed this night. I'll meet other girls. No biggie.
Good stuff man, glad to see you’re still in the game.

Did you think about going to the store to get some condoms? Maybe try carrying some in the car instead of your pocket.
 

Mr.Rob

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Good to hear man! This is a solid piece of progress for you.

I dont think any of your excuses are good/valid for not pushing for sex. I think in your case risking one time sex for small chance of STD is a good gamble. You can easily clean your clothes/car of jizz. And if youve seen Chases forum post on dealing with ED then just follow that.

She may very well have wanted you to move things toward sex.

Nonetheless this is still a great confidence boosting step. I hope you feel your getting closer and see the light at the end of the tunnel.
 

ElderPrice

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Good stuff man, glad to see you’re still in the game.

Did you think about going to the store to get some condoms? Maybe try carrying some in the car instead of your pocket.
Thank you. Yeah of course, I ain't going anywhere!

If I wanted to make it happen, then yeah I would have stopped and got some. I've thought about keeping some in my car, but I've been meaning to check if they're supposed to be kept at a certain temperature. I'm sure it's not ideal for them to be baking in the car during the summer, or in the freezing car during the winter...
 

ElderPrice

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Good to hear man! This is a solid piece of progress for you.

I dont think any of your excuses are good/valid for not pushing for sex. I think in your case risking one time sex for small chance of STD is a good gamble. You can easily clean your clothes/car of jizz. And if youve seen Chases forum post on dealing with ED then just follow that.

She may very well have wanted you to move things toward sex.

Nonetheless this is still a great confidence boosting step. I hope you feel your getting closer and see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Thank you! Nah, trust me, it was a near impossible situation for me and it just wasn't worth the stress and frustration of trying by brute force to make it work and then failing. Keep in mind, all this was also on top of virgin anxiety and performance anxiety.

Regarding ED, I've read Chase's stuff and they don't seem to entirely apply to this weird case. See (1) from this post: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/ed-help-too-sensitive-and-cant-get-it-up-suggestions.20816/

So basically, this would have been a very uncomfortable situation for me to attempt sex, and with how much sexual anxiety I have, I just don't have much room for extra discomfort. I need at least some level of comfort, in this case meaning like, a bed, not awkwardly cramped in a car, more privacy, starting earlier in the evening so I have time and energy for multiple rounds instead of trying to fool myself that I can start a multi round affair even though I can barely keep my eyes open.

Hope that makes sense.

Really if I was serious about looking for sex this night, I would have walked away the second she said she was visiting from out of town. I knew that would have meant the odds of her having a place of her own were zero!
 

Mr.Rob

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Its all good man, im just giving u a hard time a bit.

Look if you can get that far once, you can do it twice man. Hoping to keep seeing your updates.
 

ElderPrice

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Its all good man, im just giving u a hard time a bit.

Look if you can get that far once, you can do it twice man. Hoping to keep seeing your updates.
Ah gotcha! Please give me a hard time, I insist!
 

ElderPrice

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1/12/19 Lots of approaches

Wasn't free to do day game this weekend, so I went out at night with friends. Bars and clubs.

Lately I've been inspired by some of Tony's articles. The general idea has resonated with me to prioritize just getting approaches in. It's okay to cut back on the BS, the analyzing, etc. and just make sure you're approaching enough to get a big enough sample size to see how you're doing (and to probably get results). After all, even if you have 100% perfect game, it'll still be a numbers game. So make sure you're getting the numbers in before worrying about all the details.

I wasn't really counting. Got in maybe 20-30 opens, leading to 15 or so conversations, leading to 3 phone numbers. They didn't feel particularly warm. Didn't feel like anyone was particularly hooked. Oh well. We'll see how they respond. Of course I'm getting sick again so this may all be for moot if I can't meet em on a date for a week or two.
 

ElderPrice

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1/26/19 Frustrated

To followup on last entry, as expected all numbers were duds. Didn't get a response from any of them. I did end up getting sick so this weekend was my first back out there.

This weekend was just frustrating. The idea of meeting great women just feels so statistically impossible.

Saturday was a big day. Started by getting lunch with friends in a cool part of town where I figured I could open some cuties while waiting for our table. Slim pickings. The ones that came close to catching my eye were high school age, and the ones that weren't weren't attractive or they were with their boyfriend.

After lunch, one friend wanted to dip into Whole Foods real quick which was in walking distance. Walked around the whole store. Zero cuties and basically zero anything in the young lady demographic. For whatever reason, this Whole Foods mid-day was 40s/50s power hour.

After this, I went by myself to an outdoor mall to check out some stores. I expected a respectable crowd since the weather was decent. But it was rather dead. Again the majority of the few cuties I saw were clearly high school age. I believe I ended up opening 5 girls. Nobody I saw looked like they wanted to be approached, and so I wasn't surprised when my opens received no reciprocated interest in having a conversation.

After this, I stopped at a different Whole Foods. I've seen stunners at this one before. But again just no luck today. A little dead overall, and absolutely nothing in the young lady demographic.

I was tired from this day so I wasn't sure if I even wanted to go out at a night. But a friend invited me to a club so I joined. Opened, I don't know, 20 girls total throughout the night. Only one was sorta into me. Did some dancing and flirting and got her number pretty easily. She was very much my type physically. But she was with friends and wasn't indicating much interest in leaving them. I decided that I had a decision to make with the night being young: either put my focus on this girl and try to make something happen, or say screw it and keep approaching hoping I'll find someone more into me. I chose the former. I suggested me, her, and her friends bounce to another club. They agreed. We got to the next club and she just was more into her friends than me. She enjoyed having me be a part of her night and group, but having fun with her friends was on her mind more than spending time with me. She's been responsive to texts today, except as soon as I asked if she wanted to get together tonight. I'll try again this week, but she's probably a goner.

Anyway, this whole luckless day just dialed up some frustration I've been having lately. It just seems so impossible a task to find girls that want to sleep with me, especially great girls that I actually want. Like I was out during the day for 5 hours... and there weren't even girls to approach. Then I spent 5 hours out at night... and of the many girls I approached, only 1 was sorta interested. I just don't get it. Am I really doing this right? Feels like I'm wasting so much time and that there's got to be a more efficient use of time. I feel like a fool if it takes months and months of this to find... 1 girl to sleep with. At that pace, it feels like I wouldn't even have the option of having a girlfriend until I'm 50 or something. And of course feeling this way makes everything no fun. Feels like a chore. A chore that doesn't seem to be leading anywhere.

/rant
 

Mr.Rob

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Well nice work on leading the girl and her peer group to the club first off. If consider that a win.

Sounds like you just had a slow day and luck wasn't on your side. It happens. Don't let one day mean anything.

The fact you did 20 opens at the club that went no where seems like you're either having a super off day or your missing something... Would like to get some more details or listen to the conversation on that.

If you're city is always slim pickings like that you may want to consider moving too brighter pastures. Otherwise day game will always be an uphill battle. But if it was just an off day then eh it happens.
 

ElderPrice

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Well nice work on leading the girl and her peer group to the club first off. If consider that a win.

Sounds like you just had a slow day and luck wasn't on your side. It happens. Don't let one day mean anything.

The fact you did 20 opens at the club that went no where seems like you're either having a super off day or your missing something... Would like to get some more details or listen to the conversation on that.

If you're city is always slim pickings like that you may want to consider moving too brighter pastures. Otherwise day game will always be an uphill battle. But if it was just an off day then eh it happens.
Thank you! Yes, it was a small win. I was actually expecting her to decline, so I was a bit surprised that she and the group actually accepted my invitation.

It's not just one day. It seems like this is always how it goes. Hours and hours of searching, seeing very few that actually excite me, seeing even fewer that are excited to see me, then experiencing so few circumstances of mutual attraction.

Probably missing something but who knows what. When I approach, I don't use any canned routines or gambits. I've written before about how when out and about, I can only focus on 2 or 3 things as I'm out practicing/working on this stuff. Lately I've been focusing on forcing myself to better observe girls to see who's actually open to being approached, and for groups of girls, to try and identify who's single and therefore who is open to being approached. So because these things are commanding my focus, everything else is just instinct.

For these club opens, I try whatever feels natural at that moment. Some girls I'll direct open complimenting a part of their wardrobe, such as their glasses or jewelry that caught my eye. Some I'll direct open saying I think they're cute and I wanted to meet them. Some girls I'll indirectly open - for instance on Saturday I asked a girl about a basketball game she was watching on one of the TVs. Some girls I'll ask to dance. More from Saturday: One girl I noticed was married and out with her friends so I asked about one of her friends I thought was cute. Most of the conversation was her saying how protective she is of her friend because of how beautiful and awesome she is. Eventually she agreed to make an intro but her friend wasn't interested at all. The friend even came up later and apologized because she thought she was rude with her rejection. I laughed and said no worries at all.

Two other girls were chilling at a table. I opened by complimenting one's hairstyle and asked if it had a name. I've seen it before and legitimately didn't know if it had a particular name. This led to a conversation where we talked about the hairstyle for a bit, then when they said they were visiting from out of town we talked about the place they're visiting and the place they're from, but ultimately they just didn't display interest. They weren't hooked.

Again not really sure what's missing. Approaching with guy or gal friends hasn't seemed to make a difference. A couple gal friends speculated that it's just going to be tough for me because I'm short. I can't really believe that if for no other reason for how stupid it sounds. Maybe I really do need canned routines and gambits as openers? Because yeah otherwise if there's not much room for improvement it feels like I have to approach 1000 girls just to find 1 that's into me, which obviously isn't fun.

Regarding your last point, yeah for sure there's better cities out there, but I refuse to believe it's the city's fault for me sucking. It's a major metropolitan area and when I go out there's no shortage of average or below-average looking guys with beautiful girlfriends. I'm sure it's just me doing a bunch of stuff wrong.

<3 you Rob!
 

Eternity

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With yo girl...
Check out the show Keys to the VIP on YouTube. Those guys compete to be the best players and are doing this in a club environment. Model yourself after the ones that win and compare yourself to them in terms of what they're doing right and what you're doing wrong...
 
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