Low vs High Body Count - What's Ideal? cont.

[isildur1]

Lower body count women -
a lot harder to hook in sets from perspective - from the daygame approaches alot more rapport building , more long winded dates and generally a lot more comfort building required - can lead to frustrations and being very difficult to judge if things are going well or badly sometimes just straight up confusing

a l ot more lmr

Generally on average more secure in long term relationships, less prone to "being ditched" or flaked on long term if the comfort is built well.



I would say they have more patience long term too.

High body count women - much easier to get the same day lay , much easier to escalate and get sex on the first date - but more chance of getting ghosted on after sex, i've found the higher body count ones on average have more mental issues and are more prone to getting angry - being upset and can be difficult to maintain LTRs or convert from a serious thing to a fling.

I also read some statistics on a 21 convention speech (can't remember the name of the speaker atm) that high body count women have difficulty pair bonding and are more likely to file for divorces with their men - hence the sex will be easy to garner at first but you may have impatience and more issues further down the line.

It all depends what you want long term- marriage and kids then low body count will be ideal- high body count probably not going to be fun in terms of dating initially but could well be a better girlfriend/wife/mother to your children long term. I'd definitely say sex is more enjoyable with the high body girls than the conservatives

again everything is a theory "on average" there could be a lot of high body count women that make perfect wives and girlfriends and there could be a lot of conservative women that are horrible to date - i know some very low body count and conservative female friends that i know would be a pain to date and i know some high body count women that would genuinely make good wives and girlfriends so its all subjective on a case by case basis and depends on what you want from them most importantly

 

[Skills]

Lower body count women -
a lot harder to hook in sets from perspective - from the daygame approaches alot more rapport building , more long winded dates and generally a lot more comfort building required - can lead to frustrations and being very difficult to judge if things are going well or badly sometimes just straight up confusing

a l ot more lmr

Generally on average more secure in long term relationships, less prone to "being ditched" or flaked on long term if the comfort is built well.



I would say they have more patience long term too.

High body count women - much easier to get the same day lay , much easier to escalate and get sex on the first date - but more chance of getting ghosted on after sex, i've found the higher body count ones on average have more mental issues and are more prone to getting angry - being upset and can be difficult to maintain LTRs or convert from a serious thing to a fling.

I also read some statistics on a 21 convention speech (can't remember the name of the speaker atm) that high body count women have difficulty pair bonding and are more likely to file for divorces with their men - hence the sex will be easy to garner at first but you may have impatience and more issues further down the line.

It all depends what you want long term- marriage and kids then low body count will be ideal- high body count probably not going to be fun in terms of dating initially but could well be a better girlfriend/wife/mother to your children long term. I'd definitely say sex is more enjoyable with the high body girls than the conservatives

again everything is a theory "on average" there could be a lot of high body count women that make perfect wives and girlfriends and there could be a lot of conservative women that are horrible to date - i know some very low body count and conservative female friends that i know would be a pain to date and i know some high body count women that would genuinely make good wives and girlfriends so its all subjective on a case by case basis and depends on what you want from them most importantly

This is not so brother... You have gen z virgins doing ons or low count giving it to you right away and higher cost that give lmr more than low count... For instance there are puas that advice women 33 or ober cause of lmr... Young girls trend to be easier to influence they have no seen it all...

 

[isildur1]

I wouldnt be surprised if the research does show that. As I said in the beginning of my first post here, there a lot of shitty types of women with high body counts, so of course that skews the numbers. As I also said it is a coorelation not a causation, so you should judge her on other things, not the body count.

Ive examined a lot of my female friends , women i've dated etc.

when i started out "pua" i did mainly nightgame from aged 20-24 - because i was a loser with not much going on in my life the only women who were into me were drunk/druggie women at the time who i'd meet in nightclubs - these women would have very high body counts and it was difficult to build a meaningful relationship with them beyond sex because they were so depressive all the time. Even if i wanted to buy her breakfast or a coffee she'd they'd say no

Same thing happened when i went travelling latin america- if i slept with women who had high body counts from America, Europe i found the sex easier to obtain but they'd be difficult to manage beyond that - when i started daygame in 2018 my first lays were again - typically high body count girls impulsive tourists and a couple of women who'd been cheated on by their ex boyfriends and had used me to get back at them

again it was easy to obtain sex but hard to convert into something meaningful which left me in a confused state between trying to act interested to disinterested - and they'd flip out very easily over minor things which led me to believe that a lot of them weren't mentally secure

but being in London with so many different cultures and religions affecting women's relationship decisions it's easy to get confused or "lost" between a lot of women who have so many differing opinions on sex

analysing my family i have a female cousin in new york- your stereotypical "cool girl" captain of her high school cheerleading team she was extremely popular - had a lot of different boyfriends seemingly all the time - would end up in abusive relationships with fat cowboy texans and dump men and move on every 3-4 months or so. Despite being in a secure family she just seemed to want a fresh boyfriend all the time and was somewhat attracted to the drama that being with a fuckup contained.

Even my male cousin in America who was very popular with women would be a straight up ass hole to his girlfriends often cheating on them and leading them on in contrast my "low body count" family members all have secure marriages and families which are stable in the US , the ones who hooked up the most - don't . So i think there's so much argument to large body count and relationship stability . Of course the more success and the more partners you have the more you are likely to have drama come with your relationships. Family wise my Uncle who was a male model at the university of belfast had something like 4 divorces and would dump and break girlfriend's/wives hearts frequently - he wasnt a bad boyfriend in the abusive way but he was incredibly disloyal and would break up with all the women who adored him very easily. His ex wife even committed suicide after he cheated - all my other aunts and uncles have had very little sexual partners and usually married early on and were loyal to their partners till now/ death

Then again my older brother married a young Russian woman with a "Low body count" and she cheated on him with three other men - so from personal experience low body count doesn't guarantee a successful relationship

In terms of School and university - at school i was essentially a loser who women didnt pay attention to in terms of sex or dating but i still had female friends - and the highest body count women i was friends with were genuinely very kind people and good friends but they would often get cheated on a lot in relationships with older more experienced men and i think this led them to inturn be traumatised and sometimes irritable or easily frustrated. The highest body count girl at my year had something like 5 relationships with older men in the space of 3 years between 15-18 - which is quite alot in a short space of time - then continued to bounce from boyfriend to boyfriend every 3-6 months or so- her mother also found her husband cheating on her when she was 14 so i believe the daddy issues may have contributed to it.

At university again my highest body count female friends were kind people but would again but often easily irritable or impatient and would get dicked around and cheated on a lot which in turn lead them to have trust issues. - Low body count women had their issues too- in regards to socialised and integration at school and uni these women would often be somewhat isolated some of the time . My girlfriend's female friends who are low body count i believe they are simply because they are too shy to interact with anyone and never give any guy who approaches them a chance ( this is South Korea btw which still is religiously conservative in some parts) Personally i found daygame sets with religious Christian women , deep conservative girls the hardest to hook - maybe because im middle eastern they pre-judge me as muslim (which im not) but any how . A lot of these deeply religious women or conservative girls would be somewhat a bit autistic and hard to hook for basic conversation- despite their "low body counts" there were obvious issues with them going forward even if i managed to secure a coffee date with them again they'd seem low socially calibrated.

Maybe its the fact that the young women were dating older guys who had more options which led them to be somewhat traumatised after these older men would ditch them for someone else? i'm not sure - the plethora of options and the low dopamine of today's society could be what has trigged a somewhat narcissistic era where people simply don't give a f about each other and move on to the next person as a quick as possible -

for those wanting girlfriends or marriage then body counts and relationship with their father is definitely something you should take into consideration Again dating/pua is about what you want - and that varies for person to person - some people want quick hookups with as many people as possible - others want a good girlfriend and a wife

Also these are my personal experiences - they do not constitute fact of course - just trends i've noticed and conclusions i've drawn from my family/friends,social circles and dating experience - you're probably going to draw 10 different opinions from 10 different posters on this issue.

 

[Teevster]

Seems like we got a case of a low body count problem - I think what we're seeing here is typical of someone with a low body count (e.g., a 28-year-old virgin). There are other factors involved, but they all seem to relate to the body count in some way - either as a cause or a consequence of it.

I will compile the data here whenever a new thread comes up. Assuming there's a new societal trend of favoring girls with a "low body count" (not to be confused with a "normal" body count), and that this trend is gradually taking hold in this community, it is reasonable to expect more threads like this one to appear.

-Teevster

 

[Velasco]

There are other factors involved

and haven't i been saying that from the beginning?

i read the post you linked. was the girl unfaithful to him? or did she dump him like all LTR girls eventually will, regardless of body count, when you treat them like shit? never took his supposed “girlfriend” on dates and refused to meet her friends etc

 

[Skills]

and haven't i been saying that from the beginning?

i read the post you linked. was the girl unfaithful to him? or did she dump him like all LTR girls eventually will, regardless of body count, when you treat them like shit? never took his supposed “girlfriend” on dates and refused to meet her friends etc

Yeah bad example

 

[Teevster]

and haven't i been saying that from the beginning?

You cut my sentence halfway - here is the full sentence.

"There are other factors involved, but they all seem to relate to the body count in some way - either as a cause or a consequence of it."

The part you deliberately left out, is the most crucial one.

And we do not know whether or not she cheated/is cheating. If she did, she surely would not tell OP.
Edit: considering the overall relationship, it would come off as no surprise if she has started looking for "replacements".

-Teevster

 

[Velasco]

The part you deliberately left out, is the most crucial one

has nothing to do with nothing. the issue with his relationship was pointed out by me and then skills in the original post.

And we do not know whether or not she cheated/is cheating. If she did, she surely would not tell OP.

unprovable statement fallacy.

Edit: considering the overall relationship, it would come off as no surprise if she has started looking for "replacements".

the issue? why wouldn’t you look for replacement candidates if your current “boyfriend” doesn’t treat you like a girlfriend?

 

[Teevster]

the issue? why wouldn’t you look for replacement candidates if your current “boyfriend” doesn’t treat you like a girlfriend?

Oh she should - but then, it is still a form of cheating if she has - for at long as the relationship is mono.

has nothing to do with nothing. the issue with his relationship was pointed out by me and then skills in the original post.

These are other factors, indeed and they had an impact. But one cannot disregard that fact that depression is a major factor that needs to be considered. And as mentioned over and over here, low body count is associated with mental instability.

"the has nothing to do with nothing" is just plain wrong. Sure body count is not the only factor at play here, as such instances are always multivariate. But it is surely one crucial factor.

A 28 year old virgin should get anyone's alarm bell ringing.

PS: I ave had GFs without really taking them on dates, nor hanging with her friends. One example: relationship lasted between 2011 to early 2015. Normal body count and sane girl mind you.

-Teevster

 

[Skills]

These are other factors, indeed and they had an impact. But one cannot disregard that fact that depression is a major factor that needs to be considered. And as mentioned over and over here, low body count is associated with mental instability.

"the has nothing to do with nothing" is just plain wrong. Sure body count is not the only factor at play here, as such instances are always multivariate. But it is surely one crucial factor.

A 28 year old virgin should get anyone's alarm bell ringing.

PS: I ave had GFs without really taking them on dates, nor hanging with her friends. One example: relationship lasted between 2011 to early 2015. Normal body count and sane girl mind you.

-Teevster

^ ok this is a good context, now it makes sense, however a lot of gen z in this new gen are low body count or no count, and is not necessarily mental instability, is actually a majority of gen z...

 

[Teevster]

^ ok this is a good context, now it makes sense, however a lot of gen z in this new gen are low body count or no count, and is not necessarily mental instability, is actually a majority of gen z...

Most of Gen Z are not 28-year-old virgins, and those who are rarely seem mentally well. I'm not even sure you can count a 28-year-old as Gen Z. Also, OP mentioned they met last year, when she was a 28-year-old virgin—so she would be at the end of Gen X.

--
Now onto your other point:

Gen Z is also widely associated with a rise in mental health issues. I refer here to Jonathan Haidt’s excellent book The Anxious Generation, which presents data and arguments for why this generation is so psychologically affected. It’s also true that Gen Z—especially the younger segment born after 2000—tends to be less sexually active than previous generations.

So again, the point stands: there appears to be a correlation between a low body count (i.e., an unusually low number of sexual partners for a healthy young adult) and mental instability.

Now, the question is: is a low body count caused by mental instability, or does it lead to mental instability—or is it a two-way causal relationship? I don’t know. It’s a classic chicken-and-egg problem.

-Teevster

 

[Skills]

Most of Gen Z are not 28-year-old virgins, and those who are rarely seem mentally well. I'm not even sure you can count a 28-year-old as Gen Z. Also, OP mentioned they met last year, when she was a 28-year-old virgin—so she would be at the end of Gen X.

--
Now onto your other point:

Gen Z is also widely associated with a rise in mental health issues. I refer here to Jonathan Haidt’s excellent book The Anxious Generation, which presents data and arguments for why this generation is so psychologically affected. It’s also true that Gen Z—especially the younger segment born after 2000—tends to be less sexually active than previous generations.

So again, the point stands: there appears to be a correlation between a low body count (i.e., an unusually low number of sexual partners for a healthy young adult) and mental instability.

Now, the question is: is a low body count caused by mental instability, or does it lead to mental instability—or is it a two-way causal relationship? I don’t know. It’s a classic chicken-and-egg problem.

-Teevster

yep... i agree... i see....

 

[Velasco]

Oh she should - but then, it is still a form of cheating if she has - for at long as the relationship is mono.

cheating = P in V. talking to other potential candidates to replace your shitty boyfriend is not cheating. if she sleeps with one of them (again P in V). and then continues the relationship with you. then she cheated.

it’s just a case of bad relationship game. nothing more. putting the blame on depression. i been with depressed girls on antidepressant girls. never cheated or broke up with me because depression. always something i did. like cheating on them and treating them like shit

 

[Teevster]

cheating = P in V. talking to other potential candidates to replace your shitty boyfriend is not cheating. if she sleeps with one of them (again P in V). and then continues the relationship with you. then she cheated.

That is one very narrow definition of cheating.

I guess blowjobs don't count, nor anal sex.

Heck, if we want to go full-blown conservatism here, maybe low body count girls simply mean few to no men in their pussy, while their butts are full of tears and speedbumps.

Come on, man, this is getting silly. At this point, you are clearly trolling.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

it’s just a case of bad relationship game. nothing more. putting the blame on depression. i been with depressed girls on antidepressant girls. never cheated or broke up with me because depression. always something i did. like cheating on them and treating them like shit

As dark as it sounds, there's evidence suggesting that depressed women often stay in relationships where they’re not treated well. I’m not endorsing that behavior - morally, I would never recommend it - but the data does support the pattern.

So thank you for helping me make my point: it’s highly unlikely that the girl in question left OP because he treated her poorly. That explanation doesn’t really hold up.

Man, I miss when guys like Franco and PlayerSupreme (RIP) were still around.

Because right now, this place is not a place where seducers discuss anymore.

-Teevster

 

[Skills]

As dark as it sounds, there's evidence suggesting that depressed women often stay in relationships where they’re not treated well. I’m not endorsing that behavior - morally, I would never recommend it - but the data does support the pattern.

So thank you for helping me make my point: it’s highly unlikely that the girl in question left OP because he treated her poorly. That explanation doesn’t really hold up.

Man, I miss when guys like Franco and PlayerSupreme (RIP) were still around.

Because right now, this place is not a place where seducers discuss anymore.

-Teevster

Teevester all your points are factual and valid... I agree with you.... I don't agree with spike on the "low body count stuff"

however your example is not a good sample... Cause we really don't know if is her "mental shit" or his "shitty relationship skills and neediness that cause her to go into a breaking point"...

The example was just a bad one... Your points are factual and excellent! just example was kind of weak...

Both dudes time machines... advice for gen x...

 

[Teevster]

however your example is not a good sample... Cause we really don't know if is her "mental shit" or his "shitty relationship skills and neediness that cause her to go into a breaking point"...

The example was just a bad one... Your points are factual and excellent! just example was kind of weak...

As I said, there can be numerous factors at play behind the break up, but that's not the main subject I am discussing here. The reason I am mentioning this case here and not participating in the other thread is because I see it as a datapoint suggesting that a low body count can be a red flag. I'm not interested in discussing the breakup itself —otherwise, I would have responded in that thread.

The discussion here and the one in that other thread are two separate conversations.

However it is nevertheless quite interesting that, by coincidence, she happens to be a 28-year-old virgin with depression, who breaks up with him in a very questionable way.

-Teevster

 

[Rakehell]

Seems like we got a case of a low body count problem - I think what we're seeing here is typical of someone with a low body count (e.g., a 28-year-old virgin). There are other factors involved, but they all seem to relate to the body count in some way - either as a cause or a consequence of it.

I will compile the data here whenever a new thread comes up. Assuming there's a new societal trend of favoring girls with a "low body count" (not to be confused with a "normal" body count), and that this trend is gradually taking hold in this community, it is reasonable to expect more threads like this one to appear.

-Teevster

I think this example leans toward the forced low body count scenario that was discussed.

Grew up in a conservative country (likely middle eastern), moved to a western socially liberal country.

From what he described she also has some autistic/ocd traits, is probably not all that socially well off, and cannot integrate into her new environment in a healthy way.

Lack of desire/competence/mental framework to encourage sleeping around. She’s also resistant to western dating ideology, and has her own agenda as far as what a relationship is “supposed to be”, spends alot of time inside (signs of autism IME).

Low body count yes, but also psychologically unstable and unique. If her body count is grossly low in reference to her age and she wasn’t in a LTR. Autism or some other unsavory factor (for a relationship) is likely. Needs to be screened.

 

[Teevster]

Hi Rakehell,

Thank you for this comment. Nothing here I disagree with. I would however comment a few things.

From what he described she also has some autistic/ocd traits, is probably not all that socially well off, and cannot integrate into her new environment in a healthy way.

So, of course, this all rests on the assumption that she is telling the truth about being a virgin—which I also question. But for the sake of argument, let’s assume she is.

Even in a conservative Middle Eastern country, I suspect most Imams would consider a 28-year-old virgin to be an unusual case. In such contexts, people typically marry—and therefore lose their virginity—at a much younger age, often in their late teens (sometimes even earlier) or, at the very latest, in their early twenties.

The fact that she is neither married nor has ever been married would likely be seen as a red flag, even in those societies. (Note that being divorced could also raise concerns in such settings.)

Bottom line: something about this situation seems off.

Lack of desire/competence/mental framework to encourage sleeping around. She’s also resistant to western dating ideology, and has her own agenda as far as what a relationship is “supposed to be”, spends alot of time inside (signs of autism IME).

I think she might be playing some kind of game here—I don’t believe she’s being fully honest. If she isn’t telling the truth, that’s a major red flag. But even if she is telling the truth, that in itself raises concerns, for the reasons mentioned earlier.

Either way—whether she’s being truthful or not—this situation is full of red flags.

Low body count yes, but also psychologically unstable and unique. If her body count is grossly low in reference to her age and she wasn’t in a LTR. Autism or some other unsavory factor (for a relationship) is likely. Needs to be screened.

Exactly—that’s the bottom line: a very low body count at her age is a red flag, whether it’s genuine or self-proclaimed. Even if it’s not true, the fact that she feels the need to present it that way is concerning in itself.

-Teevster

 

[Velasco]

From Teevster: original post is to be found here - but it was duplicated to be reposted here, as the following conversation was more suited for this thread. PS: @Spike did not derail the thread in which this message was originally posted.

Although true, this is a depressed LSE girl. What you talk about is a normal girl. This is not a normal girl. Him committing harder would not have changed much. The game is simply different with those LSE/Depressed girls

except it’s not different. to use my girlfriend as an example. lse (daddy issues), uses antidepressants, low body count. when we first began seeing each other. it was casual at first. only that she wanted to see me more often than the other girls i was seeing. because she was the hottest. and i was very attracted to her, i made room for her by dropping my other fuckbuddies. fast forward a couple months in. she wants me to meet her friends. this is still while we are just casually seeing each other. i meet them and they see how cool i am. that alleviates some of their judgement. because an 18 year old girl telling her other 18 year old friends that she’s dating a guy in her 30s. in their imagination can form some idea of what this guy looks like. so after they saw what i look like and that i wasn’t some 30 year old creep. i got their approval. and this allowed me to be introduced to more of her friends. after a couple months of banging. i said to her one night while fucking her that i loved her. i meant it. and then we became officially girlfriend and boyfriend. a couple months after that i had her take a trip with me to go see my parents. where she ended up meeting my parents, aunts, uncles, brothers and sisters. again lse, girl on antidepressants, low body count. so i gave her commitment and she did not dump me. over the course of the relationship of course there was drama and short fights over text that were smoothed out the next day. which i don’t know what LTR in the history of LTRs there are zero fights. and during this time i did couple things and continue to do them.

had the OP done those things early. not after she had already checked out. they’d still be together. so yes lack of commitment, being vague about the relationship after 1 year together, not meeting her friends or family was the cause of her reaching the breaking point. where in her mind the relationship was already over. and lead to her getting the courage to break up with him.