LR 
My First Seduction Ever - Virgin puts up TONS of LMR, lots of pain

Skills

Tribal Elder
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I feel like that’s the problem too



I like the idea of a ping. I feel like this may be taken as me fetching for a response / chasing again tho.

I think a more sentimental ping with more substance may work. Downside is that it may be too high effort and still considered chasing.

I’m not an expert tho obviously so I may be completely off. Waiting to hear from skills
Why are you playing games being gamey, this is very needy... also you are in one track mind, lets meet, lets meet, less meet for sex subcommunication...like she gave you a thread that she was so tired last night and you ignore her, the convo is so normie, also she knows that you are only in the one track of lets meet for sex... again, open> banter>high point>soft close>hard close... ping morning or the eyes emoji and then follow structure....also you are getting a bit of onitis....review this post there are many samples of post sex interactions

 

StrayDog

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I like the idea of a ping. I feel like this may be taken as me fetching for a response / chasing again tho.

I think a more sentimental ping with more substance may work. Downside is that it may be too high effort and still considered chasing.
No matter what you text, you are not in the best position because there is such a precedence of you chasing. You gotta text something cause if you just drop it she will think you don't care and probably feel burned. If you text something sentimental it will probably feel insincere like "this guy will say anything to get me out again". Plus, trying to anticipate what she might be feeling (which you don't really know for certain) then crafting a lengthy text to convey that is just doubling down on the chasing.

You need a low pressure way to show her that you are still invested, without chasing more than you need to. what @Skills has suggested has the potential to get her back in engaged then you can build her investment again from there and show her you are for real. A ping (eye emoji, or morning 🌞) is the least needy way to say "Hey I'm still here"
 

Karea Ricardus D.

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I stopped reading after the third time she said her thighs hurt and you still kept pushing to meet ASAP to have sex... it sounded like a legitimate concern and not some BS excuse she was giving you. I would have left it for Monday.

All my LMR went away in 2011 when I started to really focused on HEARING women. Actually LISTENING. I know that sounds trite... "guys don't really listen". But, most of us really don't. You weren't really listening to her and she didn't feel heard or understood.

Also, from the conversation it seems a bit like some miscommunication on game dynamics where... you just want a fuckbuddy but she seems to actually like you for more than that... plus, she was a virgin. And that's why she's worried you don't "want her". She didn't mean that in a sexual way.

In that context it's also going to be perceived as a bit insensitive to keep pushing for more sex and not really address the fact that she's hurting. That's where all the resistance came from... not because you needed more fractionation or more lube.

This is a great example of how men and women get their wires crossed... She liked you a lot, she was just concerned that you don't actually like her (i.e. only want her for sex... not a nice feeling for a virgin). Meanwhile you're thinking you need to make her like you more...

I'ma link this thread to @Chase, I think it would be useful for you to have his input here, too.
 

Kaida

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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No matter what you text, you are not in the best position because there is such a precedence of you chasing. You gotta text something cause if you just drop it she will think you don't care and probably feel burned. If you text something sentimental it will probably feel insincere like "this guy will say anything to get me out again". Plus, trying to anticipate what she might be feeling (which you don't really know for certain) then crafting a lengthy text to convey that is just doubling down on the chasing.

Ah true. Cant really read her mind

You need a low pressure way to show her that you are still invested, without chasing more than you need to. what @Skills has suggested has the potential to get her back in engaged then you can build her investment again from there and show her you are for real. A ping (eye emoji, or morning 🌞) is the least needy way to say "Hey I'm still here"

Thanks a ton @Skills, I’m doing that tomorrow 🤝🏾
 

Kaida

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I stopped reading after the third time she said her thighs hurt and you still kept pushing to meet ASAP to have sex... it sounded like a legitimate concern and not some BS excuse she was giving you. I would have left it for Monday.

Yeah… she even brought it up mid-sex. I rarely have moments where both my parents are out, not an excuse but yeah. Too pushy there.

When I was in the house with her she said she felt better though.


You weren't really listening to her and she didn't feel heard or understood.

True man. I was just brute forcing without stopping and listening

Also, from the conversation it seems a bit like some miscommunication on game dynamics where... you just want a fuckbuddy but she seems to actually like you for more than that... plus, she was a virgin. And that's why she's worried you don't "want her".

I actually do like her more than that, I guess I just didn’t communicate that effectively

This is a great example of how men and women get their wires crossed... She liked you a lot, she was just concerned that you don't actually like her (i.e. only want her for sex... not a nice feeling for a virgin). Meanwhile you're thinking you need to make her like you more...

Yeah, I got too caught up in that. If I just looked at the signs in front of me I would have seen where her mind really was…

I heavily appreciate your input Karea. The X-factor series really changed my game and got me wins that beginners normally don’t get 🤝🏾. Thank you for replying
 

Karea Ricardus D.

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I rarely have moments where both my parents are out, not an excuse but yeah. Too pushy there.
Gotcha. I wouldn't frame that as if it might be her last chance to see you... because that sounded a bit like you might not ever see her again after that time. Too much pressure, especially for a virgin.
True man. I was just brute forcing without stopping and listening

I actually do like her more than that, I guess I just didn’t communicate that effectively
Would you like her to be your GF? If so, communicate both those things to her. 1. That you realize you were being pushy (she might think you're a bit tone deaf otherwise), and 2. that you actually like her. Both of those will go a long way in damage control here.

If it was me in your shoes, I'd message her something like: "hey... there's something I need to talk to you about... can we meet up?" Don't tell her what it's about. Get her somewhere quiet where it's just the two of you.

Then when you meet her, I'd say something along the lines of "Listen... I just wanted to tell you, I feel like I was being a bit pushy the other night... I didn't mean to be. It's just when I'm around you I can't control myself... you drive me crazy! What are you doing to me? I actually really like you."

Say it with the appropriate vibe, not matter of fact. If you do that right, she should just melt into your arms right then and there.

But, please, only say it if it's true. Word it in a way that really reflects your actual feelings. Don't give her the impression that you have feelings for her if you don't, because that's really going to mess her up bad down the line. And there's no advantage in doing it for you either.

I'll actually say that last part one more time: Don't give her the impression that you have feelings for her if you don't... But whatever you actually do feel about her, now is probably a good time to tell her.
Yeah, I got too caught up in that. If I just looked at the signs in front of me I would have seen where her mind really was…
Glad you can see it! That's good!
I heavily appreciate your input Karea. The X-factor series really changed my game and got me wins that beginners normally don’t get 🤝🏾. Thank you for replying
Thanks man, glad if I can help.
 

Kaida

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Say it with the appropriate vibe, not matter of fact. If you do that right, she should just melt into your arms right then and there.

I like that much better actually, it feels a lot more right for the situation. More of a hail mary than the morning text but it seems a little more suited to auto rejection

Do you mind describing the appropriate vibe I should go for?

But, please, only say it if it's true. Word it in a way that really reflects your actual feelings. Don't give her the impression that you have feelings for her if you don't, because that's really going to mess her up bad down the line. And there's no advantage in doing it for you either.

I'll actually say that last part one more time: Don't give her the impression that you have feelings for her if you don't... But whatever you actually do feel about her, now is probably a good time to tell her.


I do have feelings yeah. Not incredibly strong feelings, it’s not like I’d give her my full commitment right now

But yeah, she’s really attractive, & I havent liked a girl like this in a loong while

If it was me in your shoes, I'd message her something like: "hey... there's something I need to talk to you about... can we meet up?" Don't tell her what it's about. Get her somewhere quiet where it's just the two of you.

I vibe with this text more. Thing is, I feel like she may see this as me trying to weasel my way into another brute force sex meetup and ignore it. It may not get the vibe across

Should I add “only to talk, nothing else” so she can see its not just for sex?
 
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Lobo

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good stuff bro!
I would also REALLY appreciate advice on how to open a girl up more… cuz that was extremely frustrating.
i was in a similar situation as you were in on this post back when i was in college.

girl was a 19 year old virgin(black, if that matters), and it was my second night trying to fuck her.

ths first time i tried was extremely awkward because her and her friend were both in my dorm room lol. her friend fell asleep on my bed and i just couldnt help but escalate on this chick(she was fineee)

Actually just realized i wrote a report on this about 2 years ago

Long story short, i did all the escalation ninjutsu that you did and spent 7 hours to get the same result you did - 2 inches of dick in pussy.

From that day on I was commited to never go through that again, and the secret to me solving this at the time, which was unbeknownst to me, was meditation, specifically, the guided meditation video i used to watch.

Flash forward a week later into finals season, i'm bored and want to fuck. coincidentally, this girl texts me about some chemistry shit(they thought i was a 4.0 genius... i wasn't)

I framed ninjustsued the conversation into a more exciting sexual topic which I figured was what she unconciously wanted anyways.

From there, we get on a call where she talks to me about her finals experience and again I direct the convo to something sexy, I also amped up my sexual vibe thru deep voice and pauses which primed her to the point where i got the green light to pull up(despite token hesitance)

I knew i was already pretty in since i already put my dick inside this girl, but if that wasn't a clear sign, this girl also called my name from out her window as I walked over showed her big tits to the whole world. crazy girl lol
when I get into the dorm, im doing chill small talk with bedroom eyes, priming the vibe and relaxing her and getting a head start for what I know i need to do

Skills already mentioned this, but the most important thing here is that the girl neeeeds to be relaxed.

the more relaxed the better

But how exactly do we do this?

I didn't know until I actually yoloed it and just tried it out, but this little technique proved quite effective.

After doing small talk with a sexual vibe, deep pauses, and liminality, I start escalating with the usual kissing and 2 step forwards and 1 step back escalation, really trying to get her arousal to short circut her brain. I never get any resistance when I do this(but then again, my escalation began with my texts, then my call, and then my sexual vibe before I even started escalating). I also like to always have something on her pussy, usually starting with my knee, then me grinding on her. much harder for her to commit to pushing my knee or my whole body(compared to my hand), especially when shes getting aroused, so her ASD easily lets it slide.

we get to the point where shes completely naked and so am I. She's shaking a bit with nervousness qnd excitement as I loom over her looking at her like how a lion sees a gazellee. This nervousnouss is EXACTLY what will cause a girls pussy to be tight.

So I do the usual clit stimulation with my dick while kissing her and all that. then it gets to the point where I try to put my dick in and its the same thing all over again, except maybe even worse, this girl is incredibly tight.

And so, I have a bright idea. i take my condom off and look at her in the eyes and warmly tell her.

"hey, I got you... it's just you and me, and I'm going to make sure that this is as painfree as possible for you. All you have to do... is follow me"

I then proceeded to teach this girl how to breath...

"Alright, perfect... So... I want you to breath with me, ok... alright... breath in(i slide my dick in just a bit) annnnnd... breath out (slide it out)"

I made sure to add some sound effects to my breathing to accentuate to her how deep these breaths were supposed to be

of course, my voice was deep and very arousing the whole time with pauses(the triple dots are pauses). if your voice isn't making girls horny or putting them in trances, work on it, it's really good.

i kept doing this exact thing over and over again and sliding my dick in more and more to the point where she would just follow my lead by the sound of my breathing. at this point, most of my verbals were positive reinforcement."that's it... just like that.... goood girlll..."

as well as guiding her arousal when i noticed her enjoying it. "there you go... just feel my hard warm cock filling up you tight little pussy and how electric it feels as it slides.... in... and out..." - this takes her focus off the pain and onto the pleasure.

the point is to keep this meditation sexy while still relaxing her.

The reason why this works so well, is because relaxation and arousal are directly linked. I can gaurantee to you that you get harder erections when relaxed than when you are not.

the same goes for girls and how wet and open her pussy is. they also cum harder because less muscle tension.

the other reason why this works is because rythmic deep breathing like this literally makes her feel less pain while also helping her fall into a sexual trance, and deepening liminality - you are basically hypnotizing her into opening herself up to getting fully penetrated by you.

all those worries about her being new to this, or if you're the right guy to take her virginity, or if you'll think shes a slut, or if her god is looking down on her fly out the window because the only thing shes focused on is breathing in... breathing out... and the pleasure of your hard cock sliding in and out her pussy.

the end result of doing this, is that the girl is fully opened up in less than 5 minutes, with minimal bleeding(like legit nothing), and the wettest pussy you will ever experience. I almost busted a nut in her and i hate kids.

So to reiterate, it's super simple. Guide her breathing and tell her to breath in(and literally show her how to do this by you doing it as well) and as you both breath in, slide it in.

and then breath out with her, and slide out.

if you do this right, youll be fully in her in less than 5 minutes.

the key is deep breaths(at least 4-5 seconds)
1) you have to be able to lead, which you've already done in this report

2) you have to be very relaxed, which i think you were. being relaxed tranfers to her and makes it more likely for her to trust your lead because you just seem really competent

3) you have to know how to breath

4) talk sexy

5) don't use a condom. tell her its less painful and that you really dont want kids and will put it back on after you've eased your way in.
 
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Kaida

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Well, I sent @Karea Ricardus D. ’s suggestion and she called me back 15 minutes later. The call lasted 3 minutes

I’ll try and transcribe the important parts the best I can remember:


She sounded semi-distracted the whole time

Her: *unnaturally energetic* Heyy

Me: yo. what’s up

Her: Nothin much…

Me: Where u at? (i heard background noise)

Her: Just at an airbnb w my friends

Me: Cool.

Her: What did you want to say?

Me: Ah you saw my text. I’d say that its best for an in person talk.

Her: Okay

- at this point I didn’t want to just jump into planning “what day do we meet?” because with the vibe she’s shown me it didnt really feel right

Me: Yeah. I know I was a bit pushy before

Her: Mhmm

Me: And a little cold too. I dont express my feelings it as well as I should

Her: Yeah

Me: Also, I’ll actually be here for another 3 months. There was a change in the college plan.

Her: Oh nice. Are you happy about that or…?

Me: Of course. I love that I get to see my family & friends more.

Her: That’s good

Her: …

Me: Yeah. I’ma let you back to your thing. We can talk tomorrow

Her: *Immediately* I dont know about tomorrow. I have work and got to help my *blahblahblah*

Me: Cool. Let me know. *Hang up*
————————————


Well boys, feels like it may be dead (unless you guys have other thoughts)

Hurts, but 🤷🏾‍♂️. Gotta learn somehow. I take full responsibility.


I’m sure every experienced seducer has been hurt worse. Its all part of the game man
 
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Don Giovanni

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Well, I sent @Karea Ricardus D. ’s suggestion and she called me back 15 minutes later. The call lasted 3 minutes.

Seems like auto rejection.

I’ll try and transcribe the important parts the best I can remember:


She sounded semi-distracted the whole time

Her: *unnaturally energetic* Heyy

Me: yo. what’s up

Her: Nothin much…

Me: Where u at? (i heard background noise)

Her: Just at an airbnb w my friends

Me: Cool.

Her: What did you want to say?

Me: Ah you saw my text. I’d say that its best for an in person talk.

Her: Okay

- at this point I didn’t want to just jump into planning “what day do we meet?” because with the vibe she’s shown me it didnt really feel right

Me: Yeah.

I know I was a bit pushy before

Her: Mhmm

Me: And a little cold too. I dont express my feelings it as well as I should

Her: Yeah

Me: …

Her: …

Me: Yeah. I’ma let you back to your thing. We can talk tomorrow

Her: *Immediately* I dont know about tomorrow. I have work and got to help my *blahblahblah*

Me: Cool. Let me know. *Hang up*
————————————


Well boys, feels like it may be dead (unless you guys have other thoughts)

Hurts, but 🤷🏾‍♂️. Gotta learn somehow. I take full responsibility.


I’m sure every experienced seducer has been hurt worse. Its all part of the game man

I wouldn’t be so sure it’s an autorejection, but I’ll leave that for others to decide.

What I wanted to add is the girl is on the periphery of your social circle. Girls talk. Make sure that if you fuck her again or don’t she talks good or at least doesn’t talk bad things about you to the rest of the social circle (if you care about that social circle anyway). Do that by:

- be nice to her when you see her, be nice to her friends,
- don’t apologize for being pushy… it’s fine to aknowledge it by blaming it on her being so god damn hot, but don’t in any scenario take the frame of that you did something wrong,
- don’t continue being pushy obviously,
- talk good about her if anyone asks you about her.

I think you should be fine honestly, just that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, if you know what I mean.

Good luck!
 

Kaida

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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What I wanted to add is the girl is on the periphery of your social circle. Girls talk. Make sure that if you fuck her again or don’t she talks good or at least doesn’t talk bad things about you to the rest of the social circle (if you care about that social circle anyway).

She’s on like the periphery periphery… if she’s talked to anyone about me it’s likely people I don’t even know.

She really only joins my social circle events when I tell her to or when there’s a rare huge program happening

Do that by:

- be nice to her when you see her, be nice to her friends,
- don’t apologize for being pushy… it’s fine to aknowledge it by blaming it on her being so god damn hot, but don’t in any scenario take the frame of that you did something wrong,
- don’t continue being pushy obviously,
- talk good about her if anyone asks you about her.

For sure man. I like the frame about blaming it on her, I missed that during the call.

I think you should be fine honestly, just that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, if you know what I mean.

Good luck!

Thank you bro
 

Will_V

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Well, I sent @Karea Ricardus D. ’s suggestion and she called me back 15 minutes later. The call lasted 3 minutes

I’ll try and transcribe the important parts the best I can remember:


She sounded semi-distracted the whole time

Her: *unnaturally energetic* Heyy

Me: yo. what’s up

Her: Nothin much…

Me: Where u at? (i heard background noise)

Her: Just at an airbnb w my friends

Me: Cool.

Her: What did you want to say?

Me: Ah you saw my text. I’d say that its best for an in person talk.

Her: Okay

- at this point I didn’t want to just jump into planning “what day do we meet?” because with the vibe she’s shown me it didnt really feel right

Me: Yeah. I know I was a bit pushy before

Her: Mhmm

Me: And a little cold too. I dont express my feelings it as well as I should

Her: Yeah

Me: Also, I’ll actually be here for another 3 months. There was a change in the college plan.

Her: Oh nice. Are you happy about that or…?

Me: Of course. I love that I get to see my family & friends more.

Her: That’s good

Her: …

Me: Yeah. I’ma let you back to your thing. We can talk tomorrow

Her: *Immediately* I dont know about tomorrow. I have work and got to help my *blahblahblah*

Me: Cool. Let me know. *Hang up*
————————————


Well boys, feels like it may be dead (unless you guys have other thoughts)

Hurts, but 🤷🏾‍♂️. Gotta learn somehow. I take full responsibility.


I’m sure every experienced seducer has been hurt worse. Its all part of the game man
Bro you are being way too cagey with her. OK so you want to meet to talk, but that doesn't mean you just drop the ball in her court when she raises an objection about the time and just hang up.

Her question about you being happy about the 3 months was ARE YOU HAPPY BECAUSE YOU GET TO SEE ME? In womanese. You have to give her some reassurance on that front. Because now she's sitting there being responsible for initiating the next contact (which is a no no already) and not even sure what you want from her.

Women are never going to take responsibility for anything. If you want something to happen you gotta line up the hoops, take her hand and jump her through. Your attention can be turned up or down to guide her behaviour but as long as you want something to happen you can never completely take it away or leave things up to her, not at this stage anyway.

I feel you are way too afraid to show investment, and either too pushy or too cold. You have to learn to be able to stay in the pocket without losing your frame through the ups and downs. As long as you are there and you keep nudging her and making her feel good it's very hard for women to hold themselves from giving everything to you.
 

StrayDog

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Messages
656
@Kaida What makes you think it is totally dead? Just curious, because what I see is that you once again eagerly pushed for a meet-up the next day and all she said was "I don't know about tomorrow." And listed a bunch of what could very well have been legitimate reasons she was busy. I am just highlighting how you are taking what she says and assuming the worst of it. You have literally turned "I don't know if I can meet tomorrow" into "It's done." Just be aware of these kinds of mind filters in the future, because they will affect the choices you make when relating to women. In fact, you seem to have been running this sort of filter (or similar ones) throughout the entire interaction with this gal. Might want to identify where that is coming from, for yourself.

Not trying to give you false hopes here. Not saying that it is not a dead end, sure it very well could be. I am not sure you really sold her on the meeting-up-to-talk thing. Here are some reasons why

She sounded semi-distracted the whole time

Her: *unnaturally energetic* Heyy
-She comes with this high energy, and you come in with a low energy instead of raising to match her a bit.
She is not "unnaturally energetic" she is in a high state cause she is partying with her friends and an airbnb. At least she is answering the phone with positive energy and not like "what do you want dude?"
Me: yo. what’s up

Her: Nothin much…

Me: Where u at? (i heard background noise)

Her: Just at an airbnb w my friends

Me: Cool.
She tells you about this cool thing she is doing with her friends and you barely respond at all. This is a missed opportunity to lighten the mood and make the convo feel more casual and not such a big deal. So at this point, the whole thing feels super serious
Her: What did you want to say?

Me: Ah you saw my text. I’d say that its best for an in person talk.

Her: Okay

- at this point I didn’t want to just jump into planning “what day do we meet?” because with the vibe she’s shown me it didnt really feel right
"the vibe she's shown you" is a reflection of the vibe you've shown her. And anyway, I get that you were caught off guard, so it might have been tricky to know how to proceed. Talking about this over the phone was maybe not the best option, but it's what you went with. (In a moment I will give an example of how you could have maybe led this differently and avoided the following part of the convo you had)
Me: Yeah.

I know I was a bit pushy before

Her: Mhmm

Me: And a little cold too. I dont express my feelings it as well as I should

Her: Yeah

Me: …

Her: …
Basically, you highlight the negatives here and do nothing to highlight the positives. The whole point of this convo was to let her know how much you are about her, and that is why you were overly eager. Because she is a smoking bombshell, and why wouldn't you be about it?

So now it is like "okay so you just called me to vaguely atone for something...?"
Me: Yeah. I’ma let you back to your thing. We can talk tomorrow
What reason does she have to be compelled to talk tomorrow? It now feels like some super serious/ awkward thing. Where is the fun and excitement? Where is the chemistry? And again, you are just eagerly pushing for a meet-up asap, one-track mind
Her: *Immediately* I dont know about tomorrow. I have work and got to help my *blahblahblah*

Me: Cool. Let me know. *Hang up*
Just like that? The moment she put's up a tiny barrier you buckle.

Maybe not the most ideal position at this point, but at least get in there and attempt to do something about it.

What if you had asked for clarity? Something like "No sweat sounds like a pretty packed day. Just to be clear it would really be great to just meet up and chat when the moment is right, maybe grab a coffee and take a walk. Sound like something you're into?"

This gives her an opportunity to see where you are coming from, it is low pressure, and it gives her an opportunity to be clear about where she is at.

Even if she is not sure she can vocalize that and you can adjust from there

Her: Well, I am not sure
You: Not sure? that's okay. Is there anything in particular that is holding you back?
Her: ummm, I don't know
You: That's okay, there is no expectation to have it all figured out. What if I shoot you a text in a couple of days and we can go from there?
Her: Okay, that works
You: Awesome, have fun with your friends.
*ping her a couple days later* (though may be an uphill battle at this point).


This is just one possible route you could have taken things, but the idea here is that you have to lean into it man. You are just kind of beating around the bush. Get in there, and work with what is being given to you.




I take full responsibility.
You got a growth mindset, no doubt!

Okay, so here is an example of another way that convo could have gone.

She answers the phone with high energy and you match her

Her: Heyyy!
You: Hey there, what are you up to? sounds like you're having fun?
Her: haha totally, my friends and me got this airbnb
You: Dang, living large. That's whats up. You in a mansion right now or something?
Her: haha, no just somewhere we can all hang
You: Right, on, well hey I've been thinking about some things about the way we've been related. It's nothing big or super serious, but probably best to talk in person. Easier to communicate that way.
Her: Okay
You: Awesome, well what's your week like? I'm mostly just getting some work done, hanging out with some friends. That kind of stuff
Her: Well I work the next couple days, gotta help Grannie in the garden
You: Grannie in the garden? You never told me you have a green thumb! That's cool.
Her: Haha, yeah it's fun
You: Right, on. Well hey, sounds like the next couple days are packed. What if we shoot for the weekend?
Her: Okay, I think that works, I gotta see about a few things
You: No sweat, we'll just touch base in a couple of days and we can go from there!
Her: Okay!
You: Alright Elizabeth, have fun at your mansion
Her: Haha, will do
You: Bye
(or maybe this convo carried on for like 10 minutes you two just having a nice catch up, before it even gets to the "we should talk about things part")

This is just some convo I pulled out of my ass here, so yeah there are a number of ways it could have all gone. But notice how in this example you
-Match her energy, bring positivity, and keep things mostly lightly
-Take what is being given to you and run with it in order to build a sense of connection
-Make the conversation mostly about connecting, and not just one track mind "I gotta talk about this one thing, I gotta get her out, I gotta make the agenda work"
- You are flexible
-You are leading the conversation and giving it a sense of direction
-Frame the whole talk you would like to have with her as not a big deal.
-You give her a sense of what the conversation will be about so that she knows a little bit about what to expect
-You are clear in the fact that it is best to have the convo in person. Rather than getting into it while she is out having fun with friends
-You don't just let eagerness get the best of you and spill the beans right away. which leaves room for wanting ("what does he want to talk about exactly?")
-You are understanding and not pushy
-You don't just fold when she puts up a little barrier, but instead, work with her on it.
-You end on a positive note

Now how likely do you think it is that she will be game to meet up again to talk?

Okay, the conversation could have gone many ways and had many different barriers or twists and turns. But the principles are the same.

It is like these other guys on here are pointing out. @Karea Ricardus D. really getting to the heart of the matter and pointing out how you were listening to her incorrectly. And mis-conveying where you are coming from as well.

@Skills pointing out how your conversations in general have a bit of a 'normie' matter-of-fact tone.

@Will_V highlighting how you are way too cagey, and also failing to offer her a sense of direction.


One last note I will leave things on. It is okay to ask for clarification on things. Like when you two were together the first time and she said something around the lines of "You don't want me" and you replied "Then why would I be here?" You were essentially glossing over what she was saying, and trying to convince her to be comfortable. But, what if you had approached it with curiosity?

You: what do you mean, I don't want you? Don't want you how so?
Her: Well, you're not really attracted to me
You: You think I am not attracted to you?
Her: Yeah
You: What makes you think that?

and so on. Once she has given you more info, then you can respond and frame your response in a way she will relate to. This also might require you to be honest about where you are coming from as well. Hence the whole be less cagey thing.

Her: You just want me for sex
You: Just for sex?
Her: yeah
You: Your afraid I am just using you?
Her: Yeah
You: I understand, but I don't know what I can really say, cause you might not believe me anyway, but I know that I really enjoy the time we spend, cause it's always really fun and easy hanging out together. But I can understand where you're coming from, cause we're both leaving town soon, and that definitely puts a sort of limit on things. I just think you're super fine and cool, and It's fun exploring this connection, but it's not like it has to be one way or another. I'm just glad we're spending time. but if you're having trouble trusting the connection, I am not sure what we can do.
Her: I understand, I guess it does make me sad we are both leaving town soon
You: Yeah totally. I am just happy we are here together right now.
Her: Same
*passionately melts into your kisses*

Basically, you are getting in there, getting in front of the matter at hand, and articulating things you both are feeling anyway. Then it's all on the table and you both know what you are working with. By taking the lead you are creating the opportunity for you two to collaborate, using the psycho-emotional material on hand.

Seduction is really just a form of negotiation. It has different elements at play than something like a business negotiation, but it is a negotiation non the less. You are just negotiating psychological/emotional/biological drives and desires, instead of money. Also while there is a time and place in seduction for hardball negotiation tactics, the majority of it is softball negotiations where the intent is to keep the connection/chemistry going rather than drafting firm absolutes.

Again, the form these principles take isn't one size fits all, but the core of them will always remain true.
 
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Rakehell

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To me this sounds like low interest on her part, you may be overcompensating because everyone feels like it should be a big deal to her that she lost her virginity.

I mean she’s the one who just lost her virginity, she should be the one spinning herself, and trying to hawk you down…Lol

It’s like you’re trying to manage attainability by showing that you’re there and want to talk to her, even though she’s not signaling that she really wants to talk to you right now, shes out with her friends probably talking about what went down.

I’d just relax, stop trying to “game” her into responding, and go radio silent for a bit, she’ll reach out and you’ll convert her if that’s what you want.
 

StrayDog

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To me this sounds like low interest on her part, you may be overcompensating because everyone feels like it should be a big deal to her that she lost her virginity.

I mean she’s the one who just lost her virginity, she should be the one spinning herself, and trying to hawk you down…Lol

It’s like you’re trying to manage attainability by showing that you’re there and want to talk to her, even though she’s not signaling that she really wants to talk to you right now, shes out with her friends probably talking about what went down.

I’d just relax, stop trying to “game” her into responding, and go radio silent for a bit, she’ll reach out and you’ll convert her if that’s what you want.
This is true, but she is low interest on her part for a reason, and that is sort of baked into the precedence of how this seduction has played out each step of the way.

But yeah, probably wise to hang back at this point. What else could really be done?
 

Kaida

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@Kaida What makes you think it is totally dead? Just curious, because what I see is that you once again eagerly pushed for a meet-up the next day and all she said was "I don't know about tomorrow." And listed a bunch of what could very well have been legitimate reasons she was busy.

Yeah, maybe it was the way she deflected.
After she said she doesnt know it sounded like she didn’t even want to meet up. Maybe that’s just my mental filters again though

I am just highlighting how you are taking what she says and assuming the worst of it. You have literally turned "I don't know if I can meet tomorrow" into "It's done." Just be aware of these kinds of mind filters in the future, because they will affect the choices you make when relating to women. In fact, you seem to have been running this sort of filter (or similar ones) throughout the entire interaction with this gal. Might want to identify where that is coming from, for yourself.

I will meditate on it 👍🏾

@StrayDog @Will_V I read everything else y’all wrote. Even if I don’t get her back, yalls critique definitely helped me learn a lot from this, so thank you.
 

StrayDog

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Yeah, maybe it was the way she deflected.
After she said she doesnt know it sounded like she didn’t even want to meet up. Maybe that’s just my mental filters again though
yeah and also just the way you framed the whole thing and paced the convo, probably didn't give her too much to really be enthusiastic about. Like I said, probably an uphill battle at that point given the precedence, but you still gotta work with what you got at any given moment.

@StrayDog @Will_V I read everything else y’all wrote. Even if I don’t get her back, yalls critique definitely helped me learn a lot from this, so thank you.
No doubt @Kaida, we all out here learning
 

Kaida

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To me this sounds like low interest on her part, you may be overcompensating because everyone feels like it should be a big deal to her that she lost her virginity.
I feel like it’s a mix of both. What you’re saying is what I was thinking at first and what made me get all gamey


I mean she’s the one who just lost her virginity, she should be the one spinning herself, and trying to hawk you down…Lol

In her mind she may not even see it as her “losing her virginity” anyway. I barely got the tip in. It’s not like she felt my whole cock inside her.

It’s not like I’m her first sexual encounter either. She said she’s sucked dick twice before me, and that’s only if she was being totally honest. Only way I can tell she’s a virgin is because of the extremely tightness and her being super scared when I was teasing putting my dick in

I’d just relax, stop trying to “game” her into responding, and go radio silent for a bit, she’ll reach out and you’ll convert her if that’s what you want.
But yeah, probably wise to hang back at this point. What else could really be done?

I think I could do 4 things

1. Call her and be more honest and less cagey about my feelings. Tell her how much I like her, that I’m happy I have more time to see her, etc

2. Invite her to one of the parties I’m going to this weekend / next weekend. Could get her out in a low pressure & low investment way.

3. Ping her with the eye👀 emoji. Probably low odds - theres already like 5 texts she hasn’t replied to, she has only called in response - still an option though.

4. Hang Back - Just chill for a week or 2. My social media will run free ads in her head for me. Could make it seem like I never cared though.
 
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Rakehell

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I feel like we need @Chase in here to clear the air since he wrote it, Kaida I feel as though you’re strategizing based on the ‘attainability’ paradigm, but not applying it correctly.

In this scenario you are being too attainable, and doing things based on the thought of she feels you are too distant, or like you will pump and dump her.

For whatever reason this isn’t the case, dynamic is like she is pumping and dumping you.

What i’m saying is you don’t have to be at her beckon call, blowing her up to show that you arent playing her.

It is fine to be unresponsive for a bit. Let her think on feelings of that night, and give her the opportunity to reach out to you.

You’re trying to show her you’re there in an attempt to manage her feelings, but in a way you’re pushing her away because you’re forcing her to manage your feelings.

edit: you were expecting it to rain, but even though its sunny and 90 degrees, you still went out in your rain coat, right now ur standing in the sun with a rain coat on
 
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Kaida

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In this scenario you are being too attainable, and doing things based on the thought of she feels you are too distant, or like you will pump and dump her.

I was in good shape the last time we met. We cuddled a bunch and she was there smiling and laughing like a little girl. So I feel like the low attainability theory was true slightly, and she needed some slight reassurance I wasn’t using her.

But I flipped the dynamic too much and now its in her favor.


For whatever reason this isn’t the case, dynamic is like she is pumping and dumping you.

What i’m saying is you don’t have to be at her beckon call, blowing her up to show that you arent playing her.

Like I put in the timeline earlier (reply #18 on page 1), she was down to come to a party with me on Sunday after we fucked, but her parents got in the way. After she didnt answer any of my calls that night, I didnt give her any real contact until literally Thursday. My actions likely screwed up my previously well-balanced attainability.

My next texts to get her back were probably too chasey, too caged, and not addressing the issue well enough. Which is why my attainability may be too high now while still making it hard for her to fully open up.

What i’m saying is you don’t have to be at her beckon call, blowing her up to show that you arent playing her.

It is fine to be unresponsive for a bit. Let her think on feelings of that night, and give her the opportunity to reach out to you.

True. I’m thinking more that hanging back is a good option. She probably has a lot of good feelings to look back on in my absence.

Right now I’m suffocating her, making it hard for her to have the opportunity to even reflect, right?

You’re trying to show her you’re there in an attempt to manage her feelings, but in a way you’re pushing her away because you’re forcing her to manage your feelings.
Facts man. Thanks a lot Rakehell
 
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