What's your biggest sticking point vs. your experience level?

[Chase]

Just curious here where guys are getting stuck vs. where they're at experience-wise.

e.g., "Stuck at getting girls to kiss me on dates. I've been on 19 dates over the last 1.5 years, all social circle. Only laid 4 of them. Kissing is the big obstacle. If I can get them to kiss me, we go to bed." etc.

Would help me to know if we have any areas where several guys are getting stuck and we aren't really serving them with articles, products, or anything else.

Chase

 

[gameboy]

Motivation.

I've learned to approach over the last half year or so, and had a lot of fun doing it. I can often hook a girl or sometimes even a two-set. But I haven't been able to close so far. (I know what to do in theory, but either I or the girl bailed out before I was able to get that far in a seduction).

Also, I can only ever actually get myself to approach if the stars are aligned. As of the last month or two, I just lack motivation. I'm kind of comfortable with my daily routine and almost hesitant to upset it by bringing a girl home to my place.

I'm suspecting this is an inner game issue. Or maybe it's because my health isn't the best currently, due to spring allergies (stuffy nose, itchy and teary eyes and so on). Maybe a combination of both.

 

[Atlas IV]

For me it's definitely AA when approaching in socially awkward settings, especially when other people are listening. Even though I know logically that I'll never see these people again and I shouldn't give a damn what they think, I often get cold feet in the moment.

I understand that it's just instinct. Humans survive better in communities, so our brain interprets being rejected in front of others as being ostracized, therefore we're hardwired to resist it. Even so, I've always found this really difficult to overcome.

Also, sexually framing the conversation on dates. I've memorized a few sex talk gambits which are really powerful when I do use them, but I often struggle to transition into them smoothly (@Teevster has a good article on transitions, but it's tricky coming up with them on the fly). Perhaps a focus on stronger nonverbals would help, and maybe some teasing one-liners to subtly direct the vibe?

 

[DarkJedi]

Great question, Chase.

For me, it is approach-to-date in daygame. If I get to a date, I atleast have a good chance of getting her home and getting to sex. Even if I mess it up, I can usually figure out where I went wrong.

But I'm at a plateau when it come to converting approaches to dates. I can have great conversations and get lots numbers which don't go anywhere. I have been trying things like sexual framing, yet to see clear results.

Also, the successes I've got have been all different circumstances which prevents me to find patterns. Like I've got a few successes getting dates with friendly direct, a few successes with being more authoritative and direct, and a few with being indirect and being intriguing. But enough failures with all these approaches for me to not find a pattern that works consistently.

 

[scartissue]

How to escalate once I get the girl back my place on date.

I've had five times over the last fourteen months (need to put in more volume...) where I get the girl back on a first day from day game. Things are very pleasant and we have good rapport before coming back to my place. I have convenient logistics to go "oh hey haha my place is right here let's go inside?" but the move to anything sexual once we go in either doesn't happen at all or gets slowed down heavily.

 

[Kent]

My sticking point is getting the women I truly desire. There is an archetype I find very attractive (gym girls with amazing asses) but when I approach them they usually act nervous, so I've stopped. I have no problem succeeding with pretty women who are not in this camp, but I'm at a stage where its very hard to care enough to date women I have low interest in

 

[Chase]

Thanks for the replies so far, gents.

It's interesting that thus far EVERYONE reports different sticking points.

I figured we'd see a few "+1"s pretty quick but... not what we're seeing yet!

 

[Chase]

@gameboy,

I just replied to a thread by @Swati on motivation here:

losing motivation for the game?

hey guys, have you guys experienced this? Not as excited about gaming anymore? I want to feel the drive for gaming girls and getting validation etc.... something in me just not having the fire like before. when I was night gaming, half of the time I NEEDED to drink to be more fun and get more...

www.skilledseducer.com

Might be useful for you as well.

I've had other folks asking about motivation lately. Seems like a popular topic right now.

Just in general it seems like people have been rather under-motivated about gaming the past couple months.

It's weird the seasonality on this stuff. I have never noticed a clear pattern to when it happens.

But probably I should write something new on motivation.

That said, we do have a bunch of pieces on GC on it. There's a section devoted entirely to motivation:

Motivation | Girls Chase

www.girlschase.com

You might find something there that resonates with you.

Chase

 

[DonGately]

Converting was the biggest one for me for the longest time.

Now I'd say it's avoiding anxiety when approaching or on a first date with at 9+.

 

[Freakester]

How to control your desires around your female relatives?

There is this switch that activates in me. I flirt with my sister-in-laws, mom's hot friends and sometimes shit goes 0-100 real quick. I had to deal with some jealousy from my own cousins as a result. One of my mom's hot friends asked me to come to her place once after I flirted with her.

In these situations, I can't bang them but it gets real messy - drama wise. I want to avoid these messy scenarios.

This is not PU related so can be ignored safely if it's not helpful to everybody else.

 

[Loverboy]

How to control your desires around your female relatives?

There is this switch that activates in me. I flirt with my sister-in-laws, mom's hot friends and sometimes shit goes 0-100 real quick. I had to deal with some jealousy from my own cousins as a result. One of my mom's hot friends asked me to come to her place once after I flirted with her.

In these situations, I can't bang them but it gets real messy - drama wise. I want to avoid these messy scenarios.

This is not PU related so can be ignored safely if it's not helpful to everybody else.

I call that a luxury problem


Regarding the initial question: for me it's getting girls on dates. I can make a 1st date last 3 hours and leave the girl on a feeling of "wow that was an amazing guy I wanna meet him again". But converting numbers into dates is my current sticking point. Which is partly about developing a solid texting framework, and partly about building a solid (mildly sexual) first impression before getting her number.

My current level: day-gaming with low-ish AA in low-risk situations (few people around, she seems relaxed and in a mood to be approached). Texting-wise, I'm starting to gently persist beyond an initial no-response and when the girl ultimately gets back to me her response is valuable feedback for me to identify what I did right and wrong.
I'm at a point where I can replay approaches in my head and start identifying improvement points for the future.

 

[POB]

Finding time to practice
Super busy with a lot of stuff, can't find time to work on sticking points
(still getting laid, don't get me wrong....but wish I could push it a little harder - pun intended).

 

[Kaida]

I’d say I’m mid-intermediate level wise

Biggest sticking points:

1. Girls thinking I’m a slut and dont care about them

2. Girls seeing or hearing of me with lots of girls and steering clear of me (social circle)

3. The nuances of managing tension in different stages of conversation / the bedroom- sometimes the tension slips with too much laughter, fast talking, or not enough leading by me that it just gets out of control and I cant put her back in that sweet spot of opportunistic nervousness-

(Would LOVE an article about this ^^if you could @Chase)

4. Converting girls who are in my bed but resistant (virgins, girls who “dont want to do nothing”, etc.) Just had a virgin in my car an hour ago and it didnt go past making out. I’ve failed like 30+ times in the final escalation stage

I’ll edit in more sticking points as I think of them.

 

[Spyce D]

Right now , Biggest issue is Being Comfortable expressing myself in social circles . Specially with cooler crowd ...which has lot of chicks.

I find it more challenging than daygame .

And as I am currently on a break from daygame ...so only way to meet chicks is via social circle and I realised that I act a bit loner-y , outcast-like ...and that's cuz I lived most of my life this way ...so currently I am changing this aspect of mine.

Lot of inner work to do as well .

And , I left cold approach at a level where I was able to get 1 phone number per 5 (or less) approaches (direct opener) but flakes were happening a lot .

Before , I could solve that problem ..I had to shift my focus on my career .

 

[Atlas IV]

@Chase,

I appreciate the article you just published about approach anxiety. That basically answered my sticking point!

As I sat in a cafe today and read that article, a beautiful dark-skinned girl came and sat at a table next to me. It was dead silent and there were only a few customers, but for some reason I felt like this was a test sent for me by the PUA gods (lol). As I was about to leave, I opened her indirectly, then ran the Gunwitch ex-girlfriend opener. The whole cafe heard me. But she responded really positively, and we ended up vibing super nice and even holding hands. I'm going on a date with her tomorrow, in fact!

So TL;DR, just tune out the outside world. Pretend you're in the Matrix and none of it really matters (because it really doesn't).

 

[Chase]

All right, so summing up this thread thus far:

• @gameboy: approach anxiety
• @gameboy: ejecting too soon

• @Atlas IV: approach anxiety with other people around (glad the article helped!)
• @Atlas IV: sexual framing on dates

• @DarkJedi: converting day game approaches & numbers into dates

• @scartissue: effective sexual escalation at the seduction location

• @Kent: ejecting from approaches to preferred types of girls

• @DonGately: approach anxiety
• @DonGately: anxiety on first date with beautiful girls

• @Freakester: lol, what? Haha. Guess we’ll call that “targeting system miscalibration”

• @Loverboy: converting day game approaches & numbers into dates

• @POB: time management for approaching/dating

• @Kaida: playboy reputation
• @Kaida: effective sexual escalation at the seduction location

• @Spyce D: being confident in social circle

There are definitely some common themes there.

Approach anxiety shows up thrice. Converting day game numbers into dates appears twice. Escalating to sex with girls back at your place makes a few appearances.

I’ll just list out some of the resources we have on GC currently for some of these issues, in case it’s helpful for the guys dealing with them and you haven’t seen all these yet:

• Approach Anxiety
• Ejecting Too Soon
• Sexual Framing
• Being Unflustered by Beauty
• Playboy Reputation
• Time Management
• Sexual Escalation
• Social Circle Rep

I think I’d probably like to write something on having much higher converting phone number grabs.

A few questions for the guys who’ve responded:

@Kent: have you tried not ejecting from your conversations with these girls and seeing what happens if you keep talking to them / settle their nerves down? Have you considered they may seem nervous because they’re as excited by you as you are by them? Often with the girls you feel the strongest pull toward, there will be a strong MUTUAL pull.

@DonGately: where were you having trouble converting before? Approaches to numbers? Numbers to dates? Dates to pulls? Pulls to lays? Everything? Something else?

Thanks for all the responses here, gents!

Chase

 

[Dragonetti]

I'm pretty good... but I am not reliably good.

My body count is very high and I am an excellent closer. Sex happens almost always on the first date.

I have two issues, I think:

1. I am not very good at opening out of nowhere. I get approach anxiety.
2. I get caught up on girls very easily. Upset about breakups, rejections, and all that

 

[Marty]

It's interesting that thus far EVERYONE reports different sticking points.

My sticking point is having sex outside of a relationship: casual sex.

Not within a relationship, mind. There seems to be a surge in YouTube videos recently discussing what men should do when their wives after 2-3 years do something called “pulling away” (sounds dreadful, I can’t imagine what the psychological motivation behind this might be); this has never been a problem for me. My girlfriends have been mostly wonderful, and each relationship has provided opportunities for sex 2-3 times a week reliably.

But when I meet a new woman, it can go two ways for me, it seems:

• She is uninterested, period (the most frequent reaction, unsurprisingly);
• She holds onto me tight and won’t let me go, resulting in a relationship whether I am really ready for it or not.

I’ve achieved this site’s ‘holy grail’ of First-Date Sex precisely three times in my life. Once was circa 1997 in college, when a girl I’d had my eye on for some time, but was taken, broke up with her boyfriend, and that very same day I asked her out. We watched a show, had an informal meal (from a food truck) and went back to my dorm room. A second and third time occurred a few years ago. I had a near-miss last year which stopped at oral as I wasn’t feeling it. Other than that, I’ve had very little in terms of casual encounters; the vast majority of sex I’ve had has been within multi-year relationships, which was lovely, but hardly in line with the forum’s positioning as ‘Skilled Seducer’.

Have others encountered a similar polarization, and if so and you wanted to keep things informal, how have you overcome it?

 

[Atlas IV]

My sticking point is having sex outside of a relationship: casual sex.

Not within a relationship, mind. There seems to be a surge in YouTube videos recently discussing what men should do when their wives after 2-3 years do something called “pulling away” (sounds dreadful, I can’t imagine what the psychological motivation behind this might be); this has never been a problem for me. My girlfriends have been mostly wonderful, and each relationship has provided opportunities for sex 2-3 times a week reliably.

But when I meet a new woman, it can go two ways for me, it seems:

• She is uninterested, period (the most frequent reaction, unsurprisingly);
• She holds onto me tight and won’t let me go, resulting in a relationship whether I am really ready for it or not.

I’ve achieved this site’s ‘holy grail’ of First-Date Sex precisely three times in my life. Once was circa 1997 in college, when a girl I’d had my eye on for some time, but was taken, broke up with her boyfriend, and that very same day I asked her out. We watched a show, had an informal meal (from a food truck) and went back to my dorm room. A second and third time occurred a few years ago. I had a near-miss last year which stopped at oral as I wasn’t feeling it. Other than that, I’ve had very little in terms of casual encounters; the vast majority of sex I’ve had has been within multi-year relationships, which was lovely, but hardly in line with the forum’s positioning as ‘Skilled Seducer’.

Have others encountered a similar polarization, and if so and you wanted to keep things informal, how have you overcome it?

It could be that you're unconsciously setting a provider frame rather than a lover frame with the girls you meet. I think this is what most guys do without realizing it, and it usually results in the girl using sex as a prize to pull him into a relationship.

https://www.girlschase.com/content/sexual-economics-lover-and-provider

Or it could be that you're not pushing the date as far as possible - escalating with compliance all the way to the bedroom. When on dates, do you escalate physically or talk about topics related to sex/dating? I find that if you can build up sexual tension, the rest falls into place fairly easily.

Also, it sounds using the Boyfriend Disqualifier could be useful for you:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/telling-women-youre-not-boyfriend-material

 

[Regal Tiger]

For me I never could get daygane to work. Had no problems approaching, talking to people and whatnot but motivation tanked reeeeeeal quick after like 200 approaches and only a single lay

There was the stoner chick right before my girlfriend that was a same day lay so... maybe something clicked. Not sure? Either way, not really looking forward to getting back out there honestly (online has dried up a lot too so when I do get back out there it'll probably not be as helpful as it was last year)

Have a girlfriend now so don't need to, buuut eventually I'll need to get that sorted


Additional context: could get numbers that would text back but just could never convert into dates

I've got notes on a few things I think it could be and will make an effort to try out when it comes time to get back to work on it though