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Break Ups  Got suddenly dumped by an one year LTR girl with depression

Spike

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(This isn't morally good btw. I don't recommend dating depressed girls AT ALL. I'm just telling you what works based on my experience with them.)
i do agree with this. i’m very emotionally abusive with girls. pick fights with them over text. threat to break up with them. etc the whole nine yards. which comes naturally to me after years of studying YaReally’s advice on relationship game. why i have no issue with the girl being LSE or HSE. why i laugh at giving this girl commitment would make her dump him.
Had you met her family earlier and won them over, this might have been a different story.
one of the points Skills and i have made since the first page of this thread
 

Teevster

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She clearly didn't. Hence why she dumped him

Seems like there are two camps here.

Just for the clarification: if this was a sane, HSE, heck even normal self-esteem girl, I would have agreed. But depression, clear LSE and odd sexual past are to me factors that are so key, that they take precedence over any other factor.

-Teevster
 

Teevster

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i do agree with this. i’m very emotionally abusive with girls. pick fights with them over text. threat to break up with them. etc the whole nine yards. which comes naturally to me after years of studying YaReally’s advice on relationship game. why i have no issue with the girl being LSE or HSE. why i laugh at giving this girl commitment would make her dump him.

This would have worked 100% on this girl. Not that I would want such a relationship, but that's a wole different subject.

-Teevster
 

Teevster

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one of the points Skills and i have made since the first page of this thread

Regarding meeting the familly, and even her friends, are things I think we all agree would have been a good thing. I think the main disagreement in this thread is whether or not OPs failing to do so is the real cause behind the break up.

I think it is not.

I think @Atlas IV and @Will_V summed things up well. I believe it was a matter of frame, and the fact that was LSE and depressed, which would have required a very different approach - an approach you examplified just above, interestingly enough.

-Teevster
 

Will_V

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I actually told her b) on the day of break up: I said "give it time and think it over but you need to bring a lot more to the table, so far you've done basically nothing"

Far too late.

She should already, without prompting, be trying to embed herself usefully in every nook and cranny of your life, taking onboard the subtlest suggestions and adapting herself to you. If she's not doing that then she's essentially failed the first test, since this is what women do when they are in love and feel a strong desire to have something more with you.

As it is your statement would come across as reactive and unauthentic, since if you really felt that way you'd have raised the problem on your own. Instead it sounds like you're just trying to avoid dealing with her issues with you, by coming back with issues of your own.

The only way things can work in my opinion is to:
- Go radio silent until she comes to you (forgot to mention this before - if she doesn't come to you there's no point doing anything more)
- If she comes to you, tell her you thought it over, you didn't manage things properly, but you like her and want to give her another chance.

I'm not saying you should give her another chance, given that she hasn't performed spectacularly thus far, but that's the only way I can see it work with a decent frame.

And again, if you are just trying to keep the sex going a bit longer, don't bother as it will all collapse 10x worse later on.
 

TomInHo

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She should already, without prompting, be trying to embed herself usefully in every nook and cranny of your life, taking onboard the subtlest suggestions and adapting herself to you. If she's not doing that then she's essentially failed the first test, since this is what women do when they are in love and feel a strong desire to have something more with you.

I mean there's nuance to the above

The girl did give him a lot of bids for connection but he kept making it seem like they had as super casual thing going

Women will not chase super hard if things don't have a certain amount of security or potential. Also doesn't help she was very inexperienced

In this scenario his attainability was too low for this chick. And he didn't do enough to keep her in the sweet spot to encourage chasing

It ain't black and white
 

HeartOfChaos

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It is an odd situation because he also considered them exclusive while she thought he was still on the dating apps...

In my mind a main is not full commitment though... Like what if you want to progress from a main to something on the tract toward having kids? I guess you just take the condom off one day and gradually drop your fuck buddies?

Genuinely not sure what this would look like. I can barely imagine monogamy though so who knows... Question for another day I guess.
I don't like this idea of main and not main.Not for me. It's fine if for just casual fucking. I had 2 fuckbuddies when I met this girl. But I dropped them almost immediately after.

Over the years I realised it's not possible to develop a true emotional commitment with one person while still fucking others.
 

Skills

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Regarding meeting the familly, and even her friends, are things I think we all agree would have been a good thing. I think the main disagreement in this thread is whether or not OPs failing to do so is the real cause behind the break up.

I think it is not.

I think @Atlas IV and @Will_V summed things up well. I believe it was a matter of frame, and the fact that was LSE and depressed, which would have required a very different approach - an approach you examplified just above, interestingly enough.

-Teevster


A lot of guys are blaming into the lse, frame, depression.... Again, forget about:

- her being 28
-depression
- lse

and the rest of the internet diagnosis.... Any girls that would not have ANY of that stuff, and you did what op did, she would be gone....

you guys to hung up on that stuff... He did not give her progression...

By the time he did she was checking out

that cause op to be more needy pushing her away even more....


this is obvious...
 

Will_V

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I mean there's nuance to the above

The girl did give him a lot of bids for connection but he kept making it seem like they had as super casual thing going

Women will not chase super hard if things don't have a certain amount of security or potential. Also doesn't help she was very inexperienced

In this scenario his attainability was too low for this chick. And he didn't do enough to keep her in the sweet spot to encourage chasing

It ain't black and white

Fair point but I don't think it changes anything.

There's plenty of time for connection before and after sex. If this isn't happening, then there probably isn't enough juice in the relationship, period.

I look at things differently about her experience level and lack of security. Women know this stuff intuitively, it's in their DNA. It's not something they have to calculate. When they love you they want to be everything you've ever wanted, and more. They will do stuff like buy you things they think you will like or need, suggest ways they can help you or support you in some way, etc. If she did these things and @HeartOfChaos rejected it or didn't show appreciation, then sure I can see she'd get anxious. But she will try to do these things on her own to see how you react, if she's looking for more with you.

I think it's entirely possible that there isn't enough genuine attraction in this relationship and that's the basis of all the problems. And if that's so then @HeartOfChaos needs to get real honest with himself about it and move on.
 

Teevster

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She clearly didn't get clingy. Hence why she dumped him

See you edited your response. I also edited mine for more clarification. This girl falls into the first category:

Oh she would 100%. But that's for HSE girl. This is not a HSE girl, and thus other more crucial factors are at play.

In addition, a HSE girl would throw ultimatums. She did not.

As I just told @Will_V , LSE girls seek commitments - but once they get it, they freak out. So he would have been screwed anyway. This applied to most LSE girls - especially those of serious LSE - like the one we are dealing with here.

The other type of LSE girl, those who are not "seriously LSE" will seek commitment and once they get what they need, they end up turning needy and seek more and even more commitement... and it will NEVER been enough. And then you are left with two options: provide more commitement - in which case she ends up dumping you due to frame issues, or you end up not commiting and she leaves because "lack of commitement".

In both cases you are dealing with an unsolvable paradox. You simply cannot deal with those without opting for full-blown toxic relationships - which I do not recommend - both for moral and practical reasons.

-Teevster

Regarding the whole “toxic relationship” dynamic, I’m referring here to ambivalent relationships—not the kind OP described, but rather the bipolar-style push-and-pull dynamic, characterized by emotional extremes. One day it’s “I love you sooo much,” the next it’s a dramatic meltdown that makes you want to break up—rinse, repeat, and continue the cycle for as long as the relationship lasts.

This intense “love/hate” rollercoaster serves as a counterbalance to her underlying depression—she needs the emotional stimulation to feel alive. It also ties directly to low self-esteem (LSE): she craves love because it’s what she lacks, but also seeks out the “hate” or conflict because, deep down, it aligns with what she believes she deserves. (See Franco’s take on how LSE women view themselves and the world.)

Now, depending on which type you’re dealing with, the dynamics shift slightly:
  • With the first type (like in this case), the “love” gives her a sense of commitment, while the “hate” keeps her from freaking out about that commitment.
  • With the second type, the “love” reassures her of your commitment (which she needs), and the “hate” helps you maintain your frame.
Bottom line: keeping a low self-esteem girl around is never easy. As you’ve probably realized, it almost always turns into a toxic relationship—especially if it drags on long term.

-Teevster

----
Edit: @HeartOfChaos - this is for you if you really want a break down on how to keep a LSE/depressed girl around. Did you do anything wrong by not doing any of this? I personally think not, as you dodged a toxic relationship. Yes it would have lasted, but would have been toxic. But, this is subjective.

Hence why I believe the true cause behind the break up was "28 y old virgin, LSE and depressed". I hope it all makes better sense to you now.
 
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HeartOfChaos

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obviously is sarcasm brother but you did not treat her like a main...

None of the posters that have a girlfriend an ltr don't have a convo like in middle school... "hey would you go steady with me" or "would you be my girlfriend"

You just start acting like a boyfriend.... and with the fuck buddies or mltr you also act accordingly.... Based on everything you are saying, you did not really treat her like a main, but you thought you were doing so....

Well, how do you treat her like a main? Stupid question, but seriously. Do all these things she wanted (friends, social media) but of course on my own initiative first?
 

Teevster

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A lot of guys are blaming into the lse, frame, depression.... Again, forget about:

- her being 28
-depression
- lse

and the rest of the internet diagnosis.... Any girls that would not have ANY of that stuff, and you did what op did, she would be gone....

Although true, this is a depressed LSE girl. What you talk about is a normal girl. This is not a normal girl. Him committing harder would not have changed much. The game is simply different with those LSE/Depressed girls.

See this response for more in-depth explanation as to why more commitement and less ambivalence would NOT have helped.

Remember, @Pelusita and I do nightgame, including the shady sides of nightgame (after hour clubs etc, questionable afterparties). We have ended up with many cases of LSE/Depressed girls in our past - UNFORTUNATELY.

Not that many 28 y old virgin girl though - as they are an oddity. I have had a 25 year old virgin once. She was... as you may have imagined... not very mentally stable.

-Teevster
 
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you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

HeartOfChaos

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Sorry you're having a rough time brother. But I think you have to ask yourself clearly what you want with her. And then look at her very clearly and ask yourself if she can give you what you're looking for.

First of all, depressed people in your life are always going to be a rough ride. They will make you sweat as you try to walk the line between leadership and mental support, not pushing them too hard or too little, trying to be empathetic but not an emotional tampon. Their tendency to feel victimized is a constant threat to your ability to express yourself naturally, honestly, and dominantly. Taking on a depressed girlfriend is not something to take lightly, and you must avoid falling into the pitfall of thinking in terms of 'fixing' her - the beginning of a relationship is usually the easiest time you will have, and breaking up with her years down the line after she's become dependent on you can feel like you're sending her off a cliff.

I may be wrong about this, and I hope I'm not being too blunt here, but it sounds to me like there is a bit of neediness on your part. That you may not like her as much as you think you do, but you feel like you have to accept a lot of negatives because you don't think you'll find another girl as hot. If that's the case, not only is this a very bad frame for you to operate in, but she will feel it, and she will resent you for it.

In your whole post, nowhere did I see anything about her having to prove herself to you, passing your tests and bending over backward to please you and fulfill your expectations. Instead she seems to think she is a casual fling who you got attached to, who sometimes you act like a boyfriend toward. If that in itself isn't enough to tell her you aren't the sort of man she's looking for (since women, for the long term, respect guys who manage their own life and relationships carefully) then she's certainly going to start prodding you very hard to clarify things one way or the other. But to do so now would be to hand her the frame and reins of the relationship, since it would be advancing at her will.

You have only two options, in my opinion: a) break up with her or b) reset the frame as your own - tell her you got lazy but from now on you want to see improvements X, Y, and Z on her part, and that the relationship will proceed based on how things go. Examples: she has to get a job, she has to stop sitting around all day feeling sorry for herself, she has to stop doing <insert something you really hate>, she has to <insert something you really want her to do>. Make her either rise to the occasion to become your first-choice, ideal girl, or leave.

But do not bother to do any of that unless you really are open to something more with her, or else you're wasting both your times.

Hope this helps!

Thanks. The key is that I actually fucked hotter girls. The problem is that on some emotional level we matched each other, and her quiet subdued personality was what I enjoyed somehow - a girl who didn't give me much drama (or so I thought), was agreeable and submissive, followed my lead easily.

I had some difficult years, I still do. My mother passed from cancer unexpectedly 3 years ago, and after that I was basically left alone, with no close family or friends. I am in UK, I lived here since late 90s, but not from here originally, English is my 2nd language. So in a sense I am still a foreigner in way, and I desperately needed a close companion, someone who would be close to me.

And I realise in terms of personality I am not God's gift to women. To tell the truth: 2 years back I was diagnosed with traits of borderline personality disorder. Traits (slight) but disorder nonetheless, characterised by rapidly changeable moods, fear of abandonment, and other things. I can feel happy for a few hours then down and sad the next, then again...Unstable. And I am generally prone to melancholy. So I sorta understand in a way what the girl was going through mentally. I never experienced it, but I understood a bit...
 

Teevster

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And I realise in terms of personality I am not God's gift to women. To tell the truth: 2 years back I was diagnosed with traits of borderline personality disorder. Traits (slight) but disorder nonetheless, characterised by rapidly changeable moods, fear of abandonment, and other things

Jesus.

Another key variable that was left out.

Every time I make an effort to make a post... BAM a new post wit new info that changes huge parts of the narrative (if not, the whole narrative) pops up. It is really annoying.

I am out of here.

-Teevster
 

HeartOfChaos

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Jesus.

Another key variable that was left out.

Every time I make an effort to make a post... BAM a new post wit new info that changes huge parts of the narrative (if not, the whole narrative) pops up. It is really annoying.

I am out of here.

-Teevster
I am sorry. My post was really about her, not me. I don't ever usually mention my own issues. They are rather slight, so I am not sure if they make much difference, in this case anyway. Prob nothing would have changed. I just felt like venting a bit, hence wrote this now.

Why is it even so important?...
 

Teevster

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I am sorry. My post was really about her, not me. I don't ever usually mention my own issues. They are rather slight, so I am not sure if they make much difference, in this case anyway.

Not really, aside from the fact that it is clear to us that you never loved her, nor truly wanted her (until she dumped you - that changed everything right?). You had her around due to codependence - because you needed someone, because you feared being lonely - ref what you wrote yourself just above.

But you never "loved her". Once she dumped you, she suddenly became number 1( again, what I mentioned about LSE/depressed girls above, also applies to BPD girls - and interestingly, also MEN).

-Teevster

PS: we are not judging you for your issues, or diagnosis - but just annoyed at you for not providing us the relevant info when multiple guys mentioned the fact that you were operating from a frame of scarcity. Now this is proven to be correct - and aligned with your overall psychological profile.
 

TomInHo

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I look at things differently about her experience level and lack of security. Women know this stuff intuitively, it's in their DNA.

I think you overestimating how socially aware women are. Some girls are socially slow, especially Gen Z

You have walk them through something's because they totally clueless. I mean we have even had 2 women join the forum lately that have no idea how to attract or even keep a man

It's not something they have to calculate.

You would be surprised. I have had talks with some female friends on how to "calculate" things with a man they like. All Women aren't these social goddesses as a lot of men think

When they love you they want to be everything you've ever wanted, and more. They will do stuff like buy you things they think you will like or need, suggest ways they can help you or support you in some way, etc.

Idk man. For example I had a girl I was dating that was afraid to cook for me. Because we were casual and she was inexperienced she didn't know how to bring it up

I actually had to ask her to do it because she was so clueless I would enjoy it. Then after that she got more comfortable doing it for me. And even then she would timidly ask if she could still cook for me

If I had never asked she would have never done it and I could have made up a story in my head about how it's because she didn't like me enough

The whole "If she wanted to she will" trope

If she did these things and @HeartOfChaos rejected it or didn't show appreciation, then sure I can see she'd get anxious. But she will try to do these things on her own to see how you react, if she's looking for more with you.

Like I said before not all women will do it on their own naturally. Even when they really like you

I think it's entirely possible that there isn't enough genuine attraction in this relationship and that's the basis of all the problems. And if that's so then @HeartOfChaos needs to get real honest with himself about it and move on.

You making an assumption here about the attraction. But I do agree he should move on and learn from the lesson

That's the great thing about life. As long as you breathing you got multiple tries to make it work in your relationships, and can use the past to help you shape a better future
 
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HeartOfChaos

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Not really, aside from the fact that it is clear to us that you never loved her, nor truly wanted her (until she dumped you - that changed everything right?). You had her around due to codependence - because you needed someone, because you feared being lonely - ref what you wrote yourself just above.

But you never "loved her". Once she dumped you, she suddenly became number 1( again, what I mentioned about LSE/depressed girls above, also applies to BPD girls - and interestingly, also MEN).

-Teevster

Well, I did love her. One can be co-dependent in a way, but love is not mutually exclusive to co-dependency I think. Because I could have gotten into some LTRs with other girls a year or 2 before, but I didn't (for various reasons, not attractive or young enough, not quite my personality). In reality, I often felt lonely, ever since being a teenager, sometimes incredibly lonely, even when I had many friends etc...

She was number 1 for a quite a while and I wanted to be with her, even envisioned potentially marrying her.
 

Teevster

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I am sorry. My post was really about her, not me. I don't ever usually mention my own issues. They are rather slight, so I am not sure if they make much difference, in this case anyway. Prob nothing would have changed. I just felt like venting a bit, hence wrote this now.

Why is it even so important?...

Sorry for the harshness, just a bit tired. This thread ate up my night (it is now 7 am). Good thing I am on holiday though. Anyway of to bed.
 
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