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My First Seduction Ever - Virgin puts up TONS of LMR, lots of pain

Rakehell

Cro-Magnon Man
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774
True. I’m thinking more that hanging back is a good option. She probably has a lot of good feelings to look back on in my absence.

Right now I’m suffocating her, making it hard for her to have the opportunity to even reflect, right?


Facts man. Thanks a lot Rakehell
Yes just return to how you were when you got her, no need for anything extra right now.

Don’t freeze her out, don’t start chasing, just be normal. However you were when you seduced her.

Definitely don’t hit her up apologizing or trying to justify why you did what you did. For all you know she’s just busy and will tell you about it.

If she does feel some type of way don’t give her a reason to glom onto, no “My bad I think I wasn’t hearing what you were saying” or whatever. She’ll think back and remember times where U mightve and it’ll become the truth. Even if it was insignificant at the time.
 

Karea Ricardus D.

Tribal Elder
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yo! What @Will_V said! And +1, you should have told her you're happy to stay longer because of her also.

This is kinda sad cause you both like each other, but the communication is breaking down left and right and so the whole thing is almost falling apart. Now she's hurt, you're hurt, and for what... you just want to be close to her again, she just wants to feel like you actually appreciate her...

I disagree that her virginity doesn't mean much. A woman giving you her V-plate is about the biggest IOI she can ever give you, other than maybe committing a ritual murder-suicide for you lol.

Women bond strongly to the man who took their virginity and they will remember him forever.

So, again - forget strategizing how to make her like you... She likes you!

Or at least she did, until she felt pressured, and until she felt not heard and appreciated. So that's what needs fixing.

At the risk of having the following advice misapplied due to lack of calibration... again, here's what I would do:

Get her in person. Talk to her properly.

See, when I first read your posts in this thread, I got the impression that you didn't even realize you were being too pushy.

I was legitimately surprised when you said you realize that you were being too pushy.

So, that's probably what she's thinking too. "this guy only wants me for sex, he doesn't actually like me, he's extremely pushy and he doesn't even realize that he was being too pushy."

Tell her that you realize you were pushy. Apologize for it. Blame it on how crazy she makes you. Make her feel appreciated.

I'm gonna say this is my 2c... but I'll also add that all this after-sex stuff is one area I've always been extremely good at, even before I learned any game. I've never lost a girl at this stage (unless like months later over some other BS).

Every time a protagonist in a Hollywood movie loses a girl that liked him before I cringe... I always think "he should just have said xyz and she'd just melt..."

Drop any and all techniques and just be real with this girl for once...

Try it. You ARE in damage control, but I think we know what the damage is exactly so I would address it directly.

-Karea.
 

StrayDog

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yo! What @Will_V said! And +1, you should have told her you're happy to stay longer because of her also.

This is kinda sad cause you both like each other, but the communication is breaking down left and right and so the whole thing is almost falling apart. Now she's hurt, you're hurt, and for what... you just want to be close to her again, she just wants to feel like you actually appreciate her...

I disagree that her virginity doesn't mean much. A woman giving you her V-plate is about the biggest IOI she can ever give you, other than maybe committing a ritual murder-suicide for you lol.

Women bond strongly to the man who took their virginity and they will remember him forever.

So, again - forget strategizing how to make her like you... She likes you!

Or at least she did, until she felt pressured, and until she felt not heard and appreciated. So that's what needs fixing.

At the risk of having the following advice misapplied due to lack of calibration... again, here's what I would do:

Get her in person. Talk to her properly.

See, when I first read your posts in this thread, I got the impression that you didn't even realize you were being too pushy.

I was legitimately surprised when you said you realize that you were being too pushy.

So, that's probably what she's thinking too. "this guy only wants me for sex, he doesn't actually like me, he's extremely pushy and he doesn't even realize that he was being too pushy."

Tell her that you realize you were pushy. Apologize for it. Blame it on how crazy she makes you. Make her feel appreciated.

I'm gonna say this is my 2c... but I'll also add that all this after-sex stuff is one area I've always been extremely good at, even before I learned any game. I've never lost a girl at this stage (unless like months later over some other BS).

Every time a protagonist in a Hollywood movie loses a girl that liked him before I cringe... I always think "he should just have said xyz and she'd just melt..."

Drop any and all techniques and just be real with this girl for once...

Try it. You ARE in damage control, but I think we know what the damage is exactly so I would address it directly.

-Karea.
I think what @Kaida is trying to figure out is how he can actually get her out in person, at this moment in time, without being too pushy. Seeing as he already kind of dropped the ball in making that happen when they last spoke on the phone, and it was all left as a big question mark. Any thoughts?
 

Karea Ricardus D.

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Yeah I think that may have happened because she once again felt unappreciated. She asked him how he felt about staying longer, and he replied that's great for a lot of reasons... but she didn't make the list of reasons.

I'd do some kind of "I really need to talk to you about something but it has to be in person". If she's not totally put off by him yet, that should work.
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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I think what @Kaida is trying to figure out is how he can actually get her out in person, at this moment in time, without being too pushy. Seeing as he already kind of dropped the ball in making that happen when they last spoke on the phone, and it was all left as a big question mark. Any thoughts?

Bro literally read my mind lol

I could maybe invite her to a party. I have ones on saturday and sunday of this weekend and saturday of next weekend. But I dont know if that’ll still be chasing / pushy / not genuine enough

Another text might not work. Theres already a HUGE block of texts she has not replied to - she called in response.
 
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Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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I'd do some kind of "I really need to talk to you about something but it has to be in person". If she's not totally put off by him yet, that should work.

I sent something similar last night (if you didn’t already see)

Considering that along with the huge block of texts she didnt answer, should I send this anyway?
 

Rakehell

Cro-Magnon Man
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Bro literally read my mind lol

I could maybe invite her to a party. I have ones on saturday and sunday of this weekend and saturday of next weekend. But I dont know if that’ll still be chasing / pushy / not genuine enough

Another text might not work. Theres already a HUGE block of texts she has not replied to - she called in response. https://flic.kr/p/2oCXw5U
Bro…. no more texts, radio silent, let her come back. If she doesn’t reengage, ping in a few weeks. Don’t mention anything about it to her.
 

StrayDog

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wondering if @Chase has some thoughts here.

@Kaida it's like not you have to get at her right this moment and giving it a couple days is probably a good idea regardless of how you proceed.

it's a tricky position at this point.

Also, just a reminder that oneitis is a thing.
 
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Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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Bro…. no more texts, radio silent, let her come back. If she doesn’t reengage, ping in a few weeks. Don’t mention anything about it to her.

That’s what I’m thinking kind of. I feel like its a mix of both lower actual interest like you’re saying and her feeling under appreciated because of my pushiness.

I’ll probably combine the two - wait it out a bit & get her in person to talk

I do believe what they are saying is accurate though, because all of these objections are things she has brought up before or after sex.

“You don’t want me”

“It’s only because you’re leaving”

etc.

I feel like I made her feel good after sex though with the cuddling and stuff though. But its easy for her to forget about that when looking back.

I still wanna hear what @Karea Ricardus D. says though because he’s good at this
 

Skills

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To me this sounds like low interest on her part, you may be overcompensating because everyone feels like it should be a big deal to her that she lost her virginity.

I mean she’s the one who just lost her virginity, she should be the one spinning herself, and trying to hawk you down…Lol

It’s like you’re trying to manage attainability by showing that you’re there and want to talk to her, even though she’s not signaling that she really wants to talk to you right now, shes out with her friends probably talking about what went down.

I’d just relax, stop trying to “game” her into responding, and go radio silent for a bit, she’ll reach out and you’ll convert her if that’s what you want.
well this is what happens with onitis, this post is like kaida was the one that lost the virginity no the other way around, this is another bad sample of role reversal she is taking masculine role, and kaida is taking the lost the virginity role....

i am also not a fan of phone calls, you get more control in text more time to reply and strategize... And with her friends there you lost attention, and she may be fronting in front of friends too... (to be seen cool )

yeah losing the virginity with gen z is not the same as previous generations i brought this point in detail showing difference in generations in this post:


also it was not a full flower deflower, it was only the "tip" (no putting down the accomplishment but it was just a tip in with uncomfortable sex) still massive investment to get her to do so.... But she was with her friend and kaida is not the same cool kaida that she lost the viginty too....

We have onitis kaida, so yea you need to control and go back to cool kaida, no this needy emotional version of kaida, this is exactly the problem with onitis, onitis takes over, shit like this is what happens...

More experience guys can be in onitis and control it cause they have that strong muscle develop from so many years dealing with women and seeing it all that you are able to manage and remain a bit more stoic during mild onitis episode... But yea even so onitis is a bitch cause of lack of control that you feel over how you feel the interaction should go, vs how the interaction goes, onitis is a bitch.... But again best way to get over onitis is to seduce and fuck your onitis, but again you need to be able to be stoic and control your shit at least a bit...
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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i am also not a fan of phone calls, you get more control in text more time to reply and strategize...

True. I’ll def keep that in mind for the future

And with her friends there you lost attention, and she may be fronting in front of friends too... (to be seen cool )

Man, people fronting gotta be one of my pet peeves. I feel like you’re right, judging from her tone during the call. (might just be my mind framing her tone badly tho)

also it was not a full flower deflower, it was only the "tip" (no putting down the accomplishment but it was just a tip in with uncomfortable sex) still massive investment to get her to do so.... But she was with her friend and kaida is not the same cool kaida that she lost the viginty too....

Yeah that’s what I thought too. Taking her virginity would have had a much larger effect if she felt my full cock in her.

We have onitis kaida, so yea you need to control and go back to cool kaida, no this needy emotional version of kaida, this is exactly the problem with onitis, onitis takes over, shit like this is what happens...

I was much cooler and dominant before this oneitis hit.

In the past I’ve always responded to oneitis by immediately cutting off the girl and running away - but that isn’t healthy. This time I’m trying to face my feelings head on so I can actually develop my emotional strength.

But again best way to get over onitis is to seduce and fuck your onitis, but again you need to be able to be stoic and control your shit at least a bit...

Trying my best. I think my frame even with the oneitis will be much stronger if I see her in person - texts make everything much more obvious.

Appreciate the feedback skills
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

mist

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
375
I also think something no one is considering is he might possibly be experiencing

too many cooks in the kitchen atm

onitis, then all these guys ideas, him still trying to grasp being a seducer rather than his normal pretty good baseline but inconsistent.

His head not in the interaction. It's in about 1000 places but not grounded like at the beginning of the thread.

If we were to reset Kaida

Could you clearly @ the people who's ideas you used and what process(es) you are trying to work with... @Rakehell suggested you are trying to work @Chase Attainability and Comfort shiz off SAC I think anything else?

There's a ton coming at you which is awesome but also so many cooks it seems we're losing the actual interaction and entering the clouds in some ways.

so far i've seen you agree with everyone and not everyone in this thread talking with you agrees with eachother or even has the same reference points sooooo that is not great for you.

So many cooks.

reset

1. what are you doing?

2. what are the facts of the interaction (zero sum)?

3. what do you disagree with in this thread so far?

4. what do you agree with?

5. What do you actually want? Not just with this chick but in your general seductions and relationships atp

knowing where you actually stand is much better than agreeing with everything. Because not all the cooks in this kitchen are using the same recipe book or even cooking the same dish.

also if you disagree with this comment that would be awesome

but what are you cooking bro
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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@mist Honestly, I get your concern. But I don’t think that’s really the problem at all. My mind is at a better place than it was before.

The only time I got a call back from her was when I texted what @Karea Ricardus D. said to text. When I was on my own I was blowing up her phone & getting legit zero results.

If you read the thread, most of the seducers here have helped me understand the interaction and the mistakes I’ve made rather than all give me different tactics & things to do. They only provide that when I asked for it.

It’s not like they are saying totally conflicting things either - almost all of them are agreeing on what exactly went on in the interaction and where her head is probably at. I was completely unaware of these possibilities. I was clueless and thought she “needed scarcity”.

The amount of help I’ve received here has only been a plus, not a minus. And I’m incredibly grateful for it.
 

Chase

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Just skimmed all the posts after the LR, @Kaida. I'm pretty sick right now and the room feels slightly spinning but let me give you some thoughts.

First off, like everyone said, you gave her some insensitive sex, then chased when she pushed back on meeting a bit. Chasing might sound like "too much attainability" (and in many instances it is), but in this case it's actually attainability minus:

  1. Sex hurts so she needs you to be gentle/considerate. You weren't. Minus attainability.
  2. She communicated wanting to chill a bit, but you just chased and pushed anyway. Again, minus attainability.

The whole thing comes across as "my, my, my, me, me, me", which is... well, it is good to be the confident man who goes for what he wants, but nobody wants the guy who just barrels around knocking into them saying, "Yeah that's great what you said anyway let's do what I want!"

(actually that's not true, there are some LSE girls that respond really well to that)

If I had to guess where this girl's headspace is at, it is, "Wow, I think I had Kaida wrong. I thought he was cool but he's actually just a poon hound. All he wants is to smash."

Impromptu Zen koan: by not being insistent upon smashing again, the resolute disciple can smash again.

IMO, this girl needs you to back off, raise attainability, then completely re-seduce all over again from scratch.

If it was me, I'd text or audio message a very self-aware, conciliatory, attainability-raising "wow he's changed" ball-in-her-court text, given how much negative compliance you've built with her and how many declined meetups you have now (looks like at least a couple):

hey [her name], hope your [something she's doing] is excellent. hey just realized i've been blowin up ur phone and i'm like... lol, this is totally not me, this girl has me under a spell or something, haha. anyway i don't wanna keep bombarding & i've got a lot of social & biz stuff going on that i should probably focus on. mea culpa if u were like "kaida again!" lmao. anyway if you wanna talk or hang drop me a line sometime, no pressure. meantime, i'ma get re-focused on the grind ;)

Then you just DO NOT CONTACT HER AT ALL on your own for at least 3 weeks (preferably 4).

Meantime, you go pound the pavement hard to replace her with other girls to break out of your oneitis and make sure if she does come back you've got your head screwed on straight and don't just do the same thing all over again.


TWO WAYS IT GOES

... if you send that text (it could also be an audio message):

#1, she gets in touch N days later (most likely 4-14), with a very reflective tone, communicating that she thinks she maybe had you wrong, and that actually maybe she CAN have the kind of relationship with you she wants. She is neither sold nor converted at this point; she is simply open to being re-seduced.

If that happens, your WHOLE ATTITUDE is "whatever you want. We can meet up if you want or not if you want. We can just talk if you want. No pressure. You're in the driver's seat." You don't deviate from this.

Remember, you are re-seducing her.

If/when she meets up, you act seductive but chill, and can lead things forward to an extent, but every time there's a major escalation point you check with her if it's okay. If it isn't, you back off.

She's already had sex with you twice. It's not going to take forever to get back there. But she does need trust rebuilt, which means rebuilding attainability, which comes down to the three questions of attainability:

  1. Is this for real?
  2. Does he respect me as a friend?
  3. Can a girl like me get a guy like him?

Right now she feels like it is NOT for real (you just want to bang), you do NOT respect her as a friend (you push past what she wants without resolving her objections), and she can NOT get you -- not for the relationship she wants, anyway (you're a poon hound, not a lover).

The #2 way it goes is she does not get back in touch within 4 weeks, or she does but it's just to agree with you ("yah I think it's best"), in which case you are really starting from zero.

In that case, past the 4 week mark after message, you need to just start inviting her to social events, being the cool guy providing value, access to cool parties, and when she's there you are warm with her, but mostly social with just a hint of sexual. Meanwhile you flirt with other girls but don't let it get too crazy in front of her (or else you'll just trigger auto-rejection again). Any time she wants to talk to you you drop other girls and make her the priority. This makes her feel special -- "Wow, he can have those other girls, but he picks me."



Then you are just looking for some kind of hint from her, like, "We should hang again," at which point you test: "Oh you mean like parties?"

Ideally she says "Yeah, or just chill."

Then you can tell her, "Cool. Well lemme know what you wanna do, I don't wanna chase you all over again getting you going 'Ah, Kaida!'"

She'll insist it'd be cool to do something one-on-one, and then you just say, "Cool. I'll text you."

After that you follow the outline for #1.

====

So, yes. As it stands, you won't get this girl back by chasing harder or more.

You need to get her chasing you.

The way you do that is with something that says "Oh wow I just realized you had me totally into you (+A) even though I'm not usually like that at all (+V) and I guess I was being silly. I'm going to refocus on social stuff (+V; also a takeaway) but if you want to get in touch LMK (+A & +C if she does)."

A frame like that is what we used to call a "triple threat" back in the old VAC days, because it hits all three points: +V +A +C.


You want her going, "Oh, he really like me? Wait, he doesn't just do this with every girl? But wait -- now he's leaving? He's going to be doing more social stuff? What if he meets somebody else?" and get her chasing.

Then just keep her chasing while escalating things gradually and checking with her if she's cool with it and chilling out if she's not until you've re-seduced her.

Good luck man!

Chase
 
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Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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Thanks a lot bro @Chase

She replied

I sent an audio message of pretty much what you said. She replied fairly quick within 2 hours.

https://flic.kr/p/2oDhEVi
Not entirely sure what to do now, but I’m defaulting to just letting it hang (maybe with an acknowledgement text back), breaking out oneitis by messing with other girls and circling back in a week or 2.

Edit: Upon looking again, it’s looking like outcome #1 from chases post

———————————————-
Thanks guys again for the support man. Yall helped squeeze the max possible XP I could have gotten from a lay 🤝🏾
 
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Chase

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Awesome.

Pay attention to the subtext there -- she is still framing herself as the higher value one ("whenever I'm less busy"). Which is going to tend to happen after you've been chasing.

So you still need to not be reaching out to her yourself AT ALL until that frame starts to crack. "Oh wow, he really hasn't reached out to me at all... I wonder what he's doing?" "He STILL hasn't reached out? Maybe he met someone."

Chase
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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Pay attention to the subtext there -- she is still framing herself as the higher value one ("whenever I'm less busy"). Which is going to tend to happen after you've been chasing.

Ah I see.

So you still need to not be reaching out to her yourself AT ALL until that frame starts to crack. "Oh wow, he really hasn't reached out to me at all... I wonder what he's doing?" "He STILL hasn't reached out? Maybe he met someone."

I got you man

I heavily appreciate the help Chase, seriously🤝🏾.


P.S If you don’t mind please removing the name of the girl @Chase . Multiple people are telling me I should redact it.
My bad, didn’t think it was too serious
 

Chase

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P.S If you don’t mind please removing the name of the girl @Chase . Multiple people are telling me I should redact it.
My bad, didn’t think it was too serious

Done. (I assume you meant just the text example in my post; if it's in other posts in the thread, please create reports for them so we know which posts. It's a long thread ;) )
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Edit: Upon looking again, it’s looking like outcome #1 from chases post

———————————————-
Thanks guys again for the support man. Yall helped squeeze the max possible XP I could have gotten from a lay 🤝🏾
yes go radio silence, her ball is in her court....

Anyways,

read this for next time:

 
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